This is a comically difficult thing for some posters to grasp. Most evident around the 8 minute mark of the second half last night when TJL was getting a breather.
Pregame: Illinois at Penn State, Saturday, January 28th, 3:30pm CT, BTN
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This is a comically difficult thing for some posters to grasp. Most evident around the 8 minute mark of the second half last night when TJL was getting a breather.
haasi
- New York
Of course. If TJL was gassed three minutes in last night he should get a blow. But that sub killed our momentum and our run. So if it was just preplanned and he was good to keep going , giving him an extra few minutes there when we are hot to see if we can blow game open makes sense, then sit him later.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I have begun to look forward to these posts on each game thread
It is indeed inevitable. It is our destiny.
Count me as a huge fan of the Illini being destined for the First Four; our 2005 team had a Final Four banner in the locker room in November ... but this team is trying to build its OWN legacy. :thumb:
Serious Late
- Peoria via Denver via Ann Arbor via Albuquerque vi
While I don't hate, or disagree with this position, I am fairly certain the first mass substitution came at just under the 17 minute mark. At the time, up 10-0, not yet to the TV timeout and certainly with a fanbase excited to watch Lucas in his first start, I found the extremely quick trigger absurd. Now, if I am mistaken and the swap happened at the under 16 timeout, then I likely owe Groce an apology for my comments directed at him at the time.
This team befuddles me. I really don't understand anyone's sentiment suggesting we don't have the talent to compete in the Big Ten. I still watch games and dream of what this team is capable of being. How many teams sincerely have a roster with more high ceiling guys than Illinois... Wisconsin, Michigan State, Maryland, Indiana, Purdue. Those are the only sure-fire teams that its reasonable to suggest we would be trailing, given an average coach. That said, even some of those teams don't strike me as blowing Illinois away from a talent perspective. I may get roasted for this, but Purdue in particular kind of annoys me. I remain stubborn in my unwillingness to acknowledge they have a high talent level outside Swanigan/Haas. Those two just happen to be HUGE talents. Yet we play Purdue and it seriously looks like 2 different levels of play for stretches of the game. We were a TURNSTILE for their guards to penetrate and dish. I am so tired of players like "Scrubby" Spike Albrecht looking like Magic Johnson against us. Outside Swanigan/Haas, count me in the MEH category on Purdue.
Chris Collins has Northwestern rolling with a set of players that by no means were considered a miss for Illinois, or really even on our radar. Tim Miles has Nebraska higher than us in the standings with a similar composition of talent. Neither has the level of talent (subjective, I am aware) that Illinois has. We genuinely look good in our wins! Look back to the NC State game. Every win we have gotten looks about like what you would expect from a solidly in, if unremarkable, tournament team. In the VAST majority of our losses, we look like a team that doesn't belong in the NIT! It is hard to rationalize those two extremes. It also makes it darn near impossible to imply talent is at the core of the issue.
Taking a look at the balance of the schedule, just talking to the talent of our opponents:
More Talented Than Us
Wisconsin
Michigan State
Similar Talent Level To Us
Minnesota
Less Talented Than Us
Penn State (2)
Northwestern (2)
Iowa
Nebraska
Rutgers
You can debate/disagree with the assessment (particularly Northwestern), but at the end of the day, it doesn't feel very good inside posting a rebuttal that includes the comment "we can't claim superior talent to Northwestern!"
There is still a path to 11 wins. It starts by beating Penn State @ Penn State. I am not optimistic, but if they do beat Penn State... can ANY of you say you won't be turning into that Illinois/Wisconsin game thinking "if we just win this, everything gets soooooooo interesting".
Others keep mentioning our destiny as a first four team. I think I am in the exact same place, except I feel it is inescapable that we end up at 9-9 in conference. 9-9 is AWFUL, the absolute worst case scenario. I am holding out hope that something has clicked and we go on a roll, resulting in an 8-2 finish (11-7 overall) and not living on the bubble. Unfortunately, we are 95%+ likely to finish somewhere 8-10 to 10-8, just making or just missing the tournament and no more Illinois basketball following the first week of the NCAA/NIT Tourneys.
We went 3-5 in our first 8 conference games. In our final 10, I expect us to finish no worse than 5-5. 5-5 or 6-4 is my nightmare (This is my nightmare!!!
). Given that the Cubs have de-jinxed my sports world, I will hold out hope that there is this unbelievable change in team defense and ability to handle a road environment from here on out. Faith is a funny thing though, regardless of whether I believe or not, at the end of the day we all find out the truth.#SayNoToNineAndNine #WorstCaseScenario
Obviously the First Four is inevitable, but just in case I'm wrong, I'd take 20-1 that we don't finish within that range.
I like your style. Grab the house edge of a quarter percent and hedge the downside of a complete come apart down the stretch with the promise of some cold hard cash.
Serious Late
- Peoria via Denver via Ann Arbor via Albuquerque vi
Com'n now... that is a soft position to take after all this.
Not sure if anyone has posted this or even if the spread is out but knowing how penn st has played teams at home (beat mich st) and Illinois on the road...I would say Penn St. Is favored -2.5. This would be a great win for this team on the road. Penn St. is not a cupcake away
While I don't hate, or disagree with this position, I am fairly certain the first mass substitution came at just under the 17 minute mark. At the time, up 10-0, not yet to the TV timeout and certainly with a fanbase excited to watch Lucas in his first start, I found the extremely quick trigger absurd. Now, if I am mistaken and the swap happened at the under 16 timeout, then I likely owe Groce an apology for my comments directed at him at the time.
This team befuddles me. I really don't understand anyone's sentiment suggesting we don't have the talent to compete in the Big Ten. I still watch games and dream of what this team is capable of being. How many teams sincerely have a roster with more high ceiling guys than Illinois... Wisconsin, Michigan State, Maryland, Indiana, Purdue. Those are the only sure-fire teams that its reasonable to suggest we would be trailing, given an average coach. That said, even some of those teams don't strike me as blowing Illinois away from a talent perspective. I may get roasted for this, but Purdue in particular kind of annoys me. I remain stubborn in my unwillingness to acknowledge they have a high talent level outside Swanigan/Haas. Those two just happen to be HUGE talents. Yet we play Purdue and it seriously looks like 2 different levels of play for stretches of the game. We were a TURNSTILE for their guards to penetrate and dish. I am so tired of players like "Scrubby" Spike Albrecht looking like Magic Johnson against us. Outside Swanigan/Haas, count me in the MEH category on Purdue.
Chris Collins has Northwestern rolling with a set of players that by no means were considered a miss for Illinois, or really even on our radar. Tim Miles has Nebraska higher than us in the standings with a similar composition of talent. Neither has the level of talent (subjective, I am aware) that Illinois has. We genuinely look good in our wins! Look back to the NC State game. Every win we have gotten looks about like what you would expect from a solidly in, if unremarkable, tournament team. In the VAST majority of our losses, we look like a team that doesn't belong in the NIT! It is hard to rationalize those two extremes. It also makes it darn near impossible to imply talent is at the core of the issue.
Taking a look at the balance of the schedule, just talking to the talent of our opponents:
More Talented Than Us
Wisconsin
Michigan State
Similar Talent Level To Us
Minnesota
Less Talented Than Us
Penn State (2)
Northwestern (2)
Iowa
Nebraska
Rutgers
You can debate/disagree with the assessment (particularly Northwestern), but at the end of the day, it doesn't feel very good inside posting a rebuttal that includes the comment "we can't claim superior talent to Northwestern!"
There is still a path to 11 wins. It starts by beating Penn State @ Penn State. I am not optimistic, but if they do beat Penn State... can ANY of you say you won't be turning into that Illinois/Wisconsin game thinking "if we just win this, everything gets soooooooo interesting".
Others keep mentioning our destiny as a first four team. I think I am in the exact same place, except I feel it is inescapable that we end up at 9-9 in conference. 9-9 is AWFUL, the absolute worst case scenario. I am holding out hope that something has clicked and we go on a roll, resulting in an 8-2 finish (11-7 overall) and not living on the bubble. Unfortunately, we are 95%+ likely to finish somewhere 8-10 to 10-8, just making or just missing the tournament and no more Illinois basketball following the first week of the NCAA/NIT Tourneys.
We went 3-5 in our first 8 conference games. In our final 10, I expect us to finish no worse than 5-5. 5-5 or 6-4 is my nightmare (This is my nightmare!!!
#SayNoToNineAndNine #WorstCaseScenario
My take on what you have stated, and it was well stated, is that the Big is down talent wise and that we should be able to compete with our talent that we have. I don't believe that the Illini are a talented team though.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
I'm just hoping for something better than that 38-33 fiasco in 2009.
They also had Michigan on the ropes at Ann Arbor.
Bruce Weber and Ed Dechellis produced some of the most magical anti-basketball the world has ever seen during their meetings together.
Post-2005, here are the scores:
66-65
68-50
66-60
68-64
52-51
64-63
38-33
64-63
54-53
77-67 (A shootout in Happy Valley! I do not remember this game)
57-55
68-51
What is the current line on this game? I'm guessing the Kitties are favored?
illynifan34
That's a winner!!
- OH
Bill Cole had 4 3s and 7 rebounds. Maybe his best game?
Pomeroy has PSU winning by 2, that's usually pretty close to the line.
This is the current title-holder for my least favorite Illinois basketball game of all time. It beats out the lost title game to North Carolina's phony AFAM majors.
I was in Assembly Hall for that one. Bad times.
We scored 4 points in the last 10 minutes of that game. Four!!
It was 29-20 Illinois with 9:30 or so to go.
You have my most sincere condolences, S&C. For those of you morbidly curious, the box score may be found at: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=290490356
There are all sorts of hideous numbers in it. My favorite is 0 FT attempts for Illinois.
I have no doubt that Saturday's game is going to be much better! In fact, I'm feeling quite good about it, and it's all thanks to the ladder.
There are all sorts of hideous numbers in it. My favorite is 0 FT attempts for Illinois.
I have no doubt that Saturday's game is going to be much better! In fact, I'm feeling quite good about it, and it's all thanks to the ladder.
I was at the 38-33 game too. It was painful. I was done. Last Weber coached team I paid to watch play.
After the Michigan game Tejon said, and I'm paraphrasing here, that the players have no idea how much they are going to play or who they will play with. It may be scripted, but he said he didn't know the script beforehand.
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