Chad Fleck
- Eureka, IL
Well, there are times that I would have loved to get a quick drink during a dead-ball.
Pregame: Illinois at Rutgers, Saturday, December 2nd, 3:00pm CT, BTN
- Status
Let's not forget that they have had an uninterrupted week of practice to prepare for this game. Let's hope the offense shows improved movement and spacing to get the Illini better looking shots. Agree that Rutgers is a good defensive team, but our offense is better than theirs. Might be a 48-39 "blowout".
This is probably totally subjective but it seems as if when the Illini have an unusually long period between games they come out sluggish or they don't click like they do when they play games spaced out the more usual two or three days. Especially on away games. But then, maybe that is true of many teams.
InDaAZ
- Eugene, Oregon
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
What's really weird about this is that I don't think the architecture of the building is actually that prohibitive to noise ... someone correct me if I am wrong, but I do not remember ANYBODY circa 2005 talking about how AH couldn't get loud enough. In fact, it routinely showed up on lists of the loudest and most intimidating arenas in the country. Meanwhile, during this resurgence I would argue that the only home game where our crowd was simply electric from beginning to end was the 2021-22 home game against Arizona. That game is on YouTube, and the atmosphere is elite. It is no coincidence, as I learned after the game, that the student section that day was made up of a huge chunk of Krush alumni. Which brings me to my three hypotheses as to why AH/SFC has declined in atmosphere...
1. The Orange Krush just isn't as good as it used to be. I'm sorry, this isn't some "Back in my day!" complaint ... it's blatantly obvious if you go search a YouTube video of our home games in 2003 or 2005 or 2007, the Krush is infinitely more active. One very noticeable thing is that they hardly ever jump up on down when we are on defense anymore!
2. The renovations made the arena objectively much nicer, but it did take away from that "Wall of Orange" aesthetic we used to have. I think it has elevated the "floor" of our atmosphere when we aren't that good (remember those ugly gray empty seats in A Section in TV?!), but it might have capped the "ceiling."
3. On a similar note, people just don't wear as much orange anymore, and it makes the arena look more "corporate" or NBA-like in appearance.
Prediction: Illini win a clunker 53-47. I enjoy the rest of my Saturday.
A couple thoughts from a Rutgers fan...
Saw a few posts about Illinois having issues starting slow. Rutgers has started slow in every game this season I believe. As mentioned it was 2-2 after 7 minutes against st. Peters.
Guard play was brutal on both ends to start the season. Noah Fernandes is a grad transfer from Temple taking over for the lovable Paul Mulcahy. He is a crafty player off the dribble who can shoot the 3. Started extremely slow but much better last few games. Best player last game.
The highlight of the recent improved play has been the defensive on ball pressure and press from the guards Fernandes Simpson and freshman Davis. They have been in opposing guard's jocks disrupting the offense, forcing turnovers, 10 sec violations, and generally just preventing the other team from getting into their offense until there is 10-15 sec on the clock
Cliff is Cliff. Elite rim protector. Lob threat. Limited offensive post game. Relied on for rebounding
Rebounding. This is the worst rebounding team since the Eddie Jordan dark years. Everyone stands around and watches Cliff too often. Wolfolk who is the backup 5 has slimmed down and is starting at the 4 yet we still have not been able to rebound. It's a scary concern heading into B1G play
Mag. We need his defense and rebounding. Expect to return the last few games but hasn't. Doesn't seem likely his first game back would be in such a tough game. He may debut soon after against a cupcake OOC team
Griffiths is the stud 5 star freshman. He has shown flashes of brilliance but isn't being incorporated enough into the offense for most fans likings. He is not good defensively
The offense still is a struggle. There was talk of a fast paced higher scoring team this season bc Paul and Cam are slower players who left. The concern was more a drop off defensively. Instead Rutgers looks like Rutgers. The defense has started to look very very tough. The offense goes through droughts and looks lost for stretches. A lot of forcing to Cliff in the post and 1 on 1 guard play. Hyatt is hot and cold and tends to force things and make poor decisions. He was looking better this season, but was brutal last game. Rutgers struggling again to finish around the rim as a team. Davis is lightning quick but has struggled to finish at the rim. Rutgers as a team has struggled to make FTs but has really done a much better job getting to the line
I could go on, but will leave it here. I always like BU and Illinois and wish you guys luck and root for you the rest of the season. Still a bit bitter you guys beat us out for Hawkins
Saw a few posts about Illinois having issues starting slow. Rutgers has started slow in every game this season I believe. As mentioned it was 2-2 after 7 minutes against st. Peters.
Guard play was brutal on both ends to start the season. Noah Fernandes is a grad transfer from Temple taking over for the lovable Paul Mulcahy. He is a crafty player off the dribble who can shoot the 3. Started extremely slow but much better last few games. Best player last game.
The highlight of the recent improved play has been the defensive on ball pressure and press from the guards Fernandes Simpson and freshman Davis. They have been in opposing guard's jocks disrupting the offense, forcing turnovers, 10 sec violations, and generally just preventing the other team from getting into their offense until there is 10-15 sec on the clock
Cliff is Cliff. Elite rim protector. Lob threat. Limited offensive post game. Relied on for rebounding
Rebounding. This is the worst rebounding team since the Eddie Jordan dark years. Everyone stands around and watches Cliff too often. Wolfolk who is the backup 5 has slimmed down and is starting at the 4 yet we still have not been able to rebound. It's a scary concern heading into B1G play
Mag. We need his defense and rebounding. Expect to return the last few games but hasn't. Doesn't seem likely his first game back would be in such a tough game. He may debut soon after against a cupcake OOC team
Griffiths is the stud 5 star freshman. He has shown flashes of brilliance but isn't being incorporated enough into the offense for most fans likings. He is not good defensively
The offense still is a struggle. There was talk of a fast paced higher scoring team this season bc Paul and Cam are slower players who left. The concern was more a drop off defensively. Instead Rutgers looks like Rutgers. The defense has started to look very very tough. The offense goes through droughts and looks lost for stretches. A lot of forcing to Cliff in the post and 1 on 1 guard play. Hyatt is hot and cold and tends to force things and make poor decisions. He was looking better this season, but was brutal last game. Rutgers struggling again to finish around the rim as a team. Davis is lightning quick but has struggled to finish at the rim. Rutgers as a team has struggled to make FTs but has really done a much better job getting to the line
I could go on, but will leave it here. I always like BU and Illinois and wish you guys luck and root for you the rest of the season. Still a bit bitter you guys beat us out for Hawkins
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InDaAZ
- Eugene, Oregon
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Thanks for posting, and welcome! I have always liked Rutgers, as well. Anecdotally, I feel there is mutual respect and very little animosity between our fan bases. It helps that Brad is always complimentary of RU ... I believe our loss at the RAC two years ago was the first time the "Pizza Hut parking lot" legend started to grow, haha.
I also think there are fundamentally some similarities between our instate fan dynamics, though they are much more extreme overall in New Jersey. We both have a very large metro that we are dependent on but will never fully lock down (NYC/Chicago), a smaller metro that is still very significant in the south of our states that kind of gravitate toward other teams (Philly with PSU and St. Louis with Mizzou) and an instate population that generally prefers pro sports (though I think the Illini have a much easier time with Downstate Illinois than RU does with anywhere in NJ). So, I like seeing RU do well.
Good luck this year except against our Illini.
Totally agree on the similarities and BU was complimentary or Pike and RU from the beginning. Pike is one of the most likable people you'll ever see. Too lovable for some as he never gets a T
What is the legend of pizza hut parking lot
Bigtex
- DFW
agree a lot to like about your coach and his demeanor (along with recent results). Good luck the rest of the year - starting 12/3/23
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
As a long-since lapsed engineer I'll take a stab at the noise matter and then those who actually work in the field can correct me.
Seems to me that the main variables affecting arena noise are: (1) size of crowd; we get a lot of fans in the AH at capacity; (2) volume of air between fans and roof; sound propagates through air; (3) reflective capacity of the roof material v. absorptive capacity regarding sound waves; (4) angle(s) at which sound reflects from roof back into the arena.
Dense concrete, as I recall, is a very effective sound reflector. This is what the AH roof comprises (I assume it's dense and not porous concrete). So: effective sound reflector. However, because of the domed geometry of the roof, the reflection of sound back into the arena occurs at various angles. (For example, a flat surface would reflect most sound in a largely downward. In the AH it's reflecting off the other side of the dome, too.) In addition, the dome is not smooth; it's serrated (not really the right word but that's what I'll call the concrete folds in the roof) and so the reflection of sound waves is even more complex. In addition, the apex of the dome is really high. There's also a lot of air in there to attenuate sound waves as they're reflected, compared with an arena having a steep bowl with a flat roof directly above it.
A flat metal roof closer to the crowd seems intuitively to reflect sound back down at the crowd and floor more effectively than any concrete dome, let alone a serrated one like ours with a very high apex.
So, having never been in Mackey for a game here's my hypothesis: it's got a steeper bowl than the AH as I recall, a lower volume of air in the arena, and a low, flat, roof. It's like a tight metal drum. And while it seats fewer fans (14.1k v. 15.5k in the AH/SFC post-renovation) I'd guess that this doesn't reduce its noise advantage significantly. Therefore, I'm guessing it's a louder arena than ours when it gets rocking.
That's my amateur civil engineering/physics take from someone who ended his mechanical engineering studies 33 years ago and never put them to professional use. I will now leave it to a graduate of the top civil engineering program in the world (UIUC) to drive a large truck through the holes in this analysis and complete the public self-embarrassment that I've initiated.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
Coincidentally, this originated after Rutgers outworked us. Time stamp 1:00 if you want to cut to the chase. Be forewarned: language earlier than in the video may be deemed unsuitable for children and prudes:
Slugfest. Slow starts.
Illini: 66
Rutgers: 64
Hot take: TSJ hits game-winning 3 with :06 left. Rutgers inbounds but doesn't get a decent shot up. Coleman struggles offensively but hinders Cliff just enough defensively.
Illini: 66
Rutgers: 64
Hot take: TSJ hits game-winning 3 with :06 left. Rutgers inbounds but doesn't get a decent shot up. Coleman struggles offensively but hinders Cliff just enough defensively.
I really don't feel so bad now after all these years, now that one of our posts wrote he played 8 years at his H.S. gym. My 6 doesn't even compare 
One of the ways to reduce noise intensity is to bounce it off of uneven surfaces (The noise is still there, so this is not actual noise reduction). I suspect the AH roof does a pretty good job at this. It is a win during concerts; not so much during games.As a long-since lapsed engineer I'll take a stab at the noise matter and then those who actually work in the field can correct me.
Seems to me that the main variables affecting arena noise are: (1) size of crowd; we get a lot of fans in the AH at capacity; (2) volume of air between fans and roof; sound propagates through air; (3) reflective capacity of the roof material v. absorptive capacity regarding sound waves; (4) angle(s) at which sound reflects from roof back into the arena.
Dense concrete, as I recall, is a very effective sound reflector. This is what the AH roof comprises (I assume it's dense and not porous concrete). So: effective sound reflector. However, because of the domed geometry of the roof, the reflection of sound back into the arena occurs at various angles. (For example, a flat surface would reflect most sound in a largely downward. In the AH it's reflecting off the other side of the dome, too.) In addition, the dome is not smooth; it's serrated (not really the right word but that's what I'll call the concrete folds in the roof) and so the reflection of sound waves is even more complex. In addition, the apex of the dome is really high. There's also a lot of air in there to attenuate sound waves as they're reflected, compared with an arena having a steep bowl with a flat roof directly above it.
A flat metal roof closer to the crowd seems intuitively to reflect sound back down at the crowd and floor more effectively than any concrete dome, let alone a serrated one like ours with a very high apex.
So, having never been in Mackey for a game here's my hypothesis: it's got a steeper bowl than the AH as I recall, a lower volume of air in the arena, and a low, flat, roof. It's like a tight metal drum. And while it seats fewer fans (14.1k v. 15.5k in the AH/SFC post-renovation) I'd guess that this doesn't reduce its noise advantage significantly. Therefore, I'm guessing it's a louder arena than ours when it gets rocking.
That's my amateur civil engineering/physics take from someone who ended his mechanical engineering studies 33 years ago and never put them to professional use. I will now leave it to a graduate of the top civil engineering program in the world (UIUC) to drive a large truck through the holes in this analysis and complete the public self-embarrassment that I've initiated.
Btw. For all the "the crowd doesn't get loud enough," I know of people who stopped going to games due to the volume of the PA. They found it painful, even with ear plugs. They now turn down free tickets. Whoever thinks the best way to rile up the crowd is to crank the PA volume might want to reconsider.
The difference between Mackey and our Assembly Hall is two foldAs a long-since lapsed engineer I'll take a stab at the noise matter and then those who actually work in the field can correct me.
Seems to me that the main variables affecting arena noise are: (1) size of crowd; we get a lot of fans in the AH at capacity; (2) volume of air between fans and roof; sound propagates through air; (3) reflective capacity of the roof material v. absorptive capacity regarding sound waves; (4) angle(s) at which sound reflects from roof back into the arena.
Dense concrete, as I recall, is a very effective sound reflector. This is what the AH roof comprises (I assume it's dense and not porous concrete). So: effective sound reflector. However, because of the domed geometry of the roof, the reflection of sound back into the arena occurs at various angles. (For example, a flat surface would reflect most sound in a largely downward. In the AH it's reflecting off the other side of the dome, too.) In addition, the dome is not smooth; it's serrated (not really the right word but that's what I'll call the concrete folds in the roof) and so the reflection of sound waves is even more complex. In addition, the apex of the dome is really high. There's also a lot of air in there to attenuate sound waves as they're reflected, compared with an arena having a steep bowl with a flat roof directly above it.
A flat metal roof closer to the crowd seems intuitively to reflect sound back down at the crowd and floor more effectively than any concrete dome, let alone a serrated one like ours with a very high apex.
So, having never been in Mackey for a game here's my hypothesis: it's got a steeper bowl than the AH as I recall, a lower volume of air in the arena, and a low, flat, roof. It's like a tight metal drum. And while it seats fewer fans (14.1k v. 15.5k in the AH/SFC post-renovation) I'd guess that this doesn't reduce its noise advantage significantly. Therefore, I'm guessing it's a louder arena than ours when it gets rocking.
That's my amateur civil engineering/physics take from someone who ended his mechanical engineering studies 33 years ago and never put them to professional use. I will now leave it to a graduate of the top civil engineering program in the world (UIUC) to drive a large truck through the holes in this analysis and complete the public self-embarrassment that I've initiated.
1 Their students/fans are located close to the floor. Our Fans seem to be a foot or two further back. How many fans are located in the old section A now
2 There arena roof isn’t as high so their arena is smaller with the same relative amount of people
The simple fact we took away seats in the renovation so it is harder to be as loud as it was in the past
With that said any home court can be an advantage if you have a good team. Without a good team the home court advantage goes away
Congratulations on your analysis. As a 40+ year structural engineer I concur with most of what you said. It is definitely dense concrete, and the Assembly Hall roof is technically a "shell folded plate". Not many around. I don't pretend to know anything about acoustics, but do know that the multiple angled surfaces of the dome send the reflections off in many different directions versus focusing the reflections into the area of the court like a smoother concave surface would.As a long-since lapsed engineer I'll take a stab at the noise matter and then those who actually work in the field can correct me.
Seems to me that the main variables affecting arena noise are: (1) size of crowd; we get a lot of fans in the AH at capacity; (2) volume of air between fans and roof; sound propagates through air; (3) reflective capacity of the roof material v. absorptive capacity regarding sound waves; (4) angle(s) at which sound reflects from roof back into the arena.
Dense concrete, as I recall, is a very effective sound reflector. This is what the AH roof comprises (I assume it's dense and not porous concrete). So: effective sound reflector. However, because of the domed geometry of the roof, the reflection of sound back into the arena occurs at various angles. (For example, a flat surface would reflect most sound in a largely downward. In the AH it's reflecting off the other side of the dome, too.) In addition, the dome is not smooth; it's serrated (not really the right word but that's what I'll call the concrete folds in the roof) and so the reflection of sound waves is even more complex. In addition, the apex of the dome is really high. There's also a lot of air in there to attenuate sound waves as they're reflected, compared with an arena having a steep bowl with a flat roof directly above it.
A flat metal roof closer to the crowd seems intuitively to reflect sound back down at the crowd and floor more effectively than any concrete dome, let alone a serrated one like ours with a very high apex.
So, having never been in Mackey for a game here's my hypothesis: it's got a steeper bowl than the AH as I recall, a lower volume of air in the arena, and a low, flat, roof. It's like a tight metal drum. And while it seats fewer fans (14.1k v. 15.5k in the AH/SFC post-renovation) I'd guess that this doesn't reduce its noise advantage significantly. Therefore, I'm guessing it's a louder arena than ours when it gets rocking.
That's my amateur civil engineering/physics take from someone who ended his mechanical engineering studies 33 years ago and never put them to professional use. I will now leave it to a graduate of the top civil engineering program in the world (UIUC) to drive a large truck through the holes in this analysis and complete the public self-embarrassment that I've initiated.
Those of us who witnessed basketball and hockey in the old Chicago Stadium and suffered permanent hearing loss, I can't believe there was any louder arena on earth. With all of those balconies there were over 17,000 seats in a volume a tiny fraction of any other stadium. Add to that a monstrous 3,600 pipe organ and you had the recipe for destroying eardrums.
Tacomallini
- Washington State
You'll fit right in with about 50% of this board
suspend removable 'sound-plates' from the roof designed to project vs. diffuse the sound. if that isn't enough, give everyone in Krush a megaphone.
That week off might result in some rust.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
- Status