Pregame: Illinois vs Central Michigan, Saturday, December 10th, 2:00pm CT, BTN Plus

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#78      

Illini1221

I
Peru,IL
Illini1221
BirdDog9048 said:
I'm not sure Tate warrants quite that much vitriol. He's a decent rebounder out of the PG position, currently leads the team in assists/game, and his A:TO ratio is second only to Tracy.

On occasion this year, he has also shown that he will take advantage when his defender over helps to cut off passing lanes, by driving to the basket. He has a high basketball IQ and has shown himself to be a fairly reliable FT shooter, which explain his late game usage.

Is he a B1G starting PG? No. Could we do a lot worse than a 6'3" senior backup PG? Yes.
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I agree 100 percent with this. Obviously Tate cant score, but hes a solid 2nd and third option for the point guard spot. As much as we all love Lucas, he looked terrible the other night.
 
#79      

Illini1221

I
Peru,IL
Illini1221
Old Number 51 said:
Have you been watching Groce coached teams the last 4 plus years?

I predict we come out flat, the game will have several lead changes, we win/lose a close game, and JG says after the game that CMich is an awesome team and JT played great.

SIGH.......... :tsk:
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Thats not true. I think for the most part they have been coming out strong, but unable to maintain that intensity. Against Winthrop and IUPUI we were up by 10 early. Also, Groce didn't seem thrilled at all about the IUPUI game in the post game.
 
#80      

OrangeSoda

OrangeSoda
OrangeSoda
FollowTisdale said:
Well yea, the Tate frustration comes from watching three years of him, obviously. I've watched 3 years of bad basketball being played by him, so has Groce, and only one of us continues to put him out there in crunch time minutes to commit turnovers, kill the offensive flow, and watch his lock down defendee break him down again and again.

Tate is just not a big ten basketball player. He's not strong with the ball, the offense stalls when he has it (which is probably 60% his problem, 40% Groce's no offball movement offense), and we're only calling him a good defender because it's relative to his offense.

Having to play 4 on 5 on offense is not possible. Go watch a full game just focusing on Tate's defender when he's off ball. The defender is able to sag off of him so far that any one else driving has another defender in there way, ruining any semblance of an offense. TJL has already shown that he can drive to the hoop just as well as Tate. Tate is not a lockdown defender; quick guards have gotten past him consistently, and anyone should be able to defend a guard who doesn't have the quickness of a, say, Keon Johnson.

It's just emblematic of Groce's failings. This kid has no business playing big ten basketball outside of Schmidt minutes and even the layman can see it. Or they can't see it, because they're not at the game
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Interesting. Would you like to assess the turnover comment one more time? Tate's assist to t/o ratio is one of the best on the team. He is a facilitator. Abrams isn't ready to play the 1 for major minutes and TJL in more mistake prone than Tate. So you're really just flat out wrong. TJL is a 100+ recruit. To assume he is more ready for B10 play than a senior Tate is strange. He needs to prove a lot more first.
 
#81      

FollowTisdale

F
FollowTisdale
OrangeSoda said:
Interesting. Would you like to assess the turnover comment one more time? Tate's assist to t/o ratio is one of the best on the team. He is a facilitator. Abrams isn't ready to play the 1 for major minutes and TJL in more mistake prone than Tate. So you're really just flat out wrong. TJL is a 100+ recruit. To assume he is more ready for B10 play than a senior Tate is strange. He needs to prove a lot more first.
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Small Sample Size. TJL has less than half the minutes, and early when he was picking up garbage minutes only, I'm sure his assist numbers were held lower due to playing along side poor shooters, relatively.

I mean if you want to focus in on SSS numbers, then TJL is a world beater shooting 70% overall and 50% from 3. Hope our freshman PG are ready next year, because Lucas is a lottery pick.

We know what Tate is. He's going to shoot mid 30%, allow his defender to sag off and make the whole offense worse because of it. In order for TJL to "prove a lot more first", he needs to get the opportunity.
 
#82      

WesterveltVictoryCigar

WesterveltVictoryCigar
WesterveltVictoryCigar
OrangeSoda said:
Interesting. Would you like to assess the turnover comment one more time? Tate's assist to t/o ratio is one of the best on the team. He is a facilitator. Abrams isn't ready to play the 1 for major minutes and TJL in more mistake prone than Tate. So you're really just flat out wrong. TJL is a 100+ recruit. To assume he is more ready for B10 play than a senior Tate is strange. He needs to prove a lot more first.
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Well I have to disagree with the "flat out wrong" part. A/TO ratio is a bad stat and saying it's "one of the best" on a team with a turnover problem that also doesn't have a high assist % is misleading. Tate's turnover % is 33.8, which is really high. It's somewhat inflated by his reluctance to shoot the ball, but that's still not very good. He does have a high assist %, which does prove he can facilitate but it's very much offset by the turnovers and lack of scoring.
 
#85      

t7nich

t7nich
Central IL
t7nich
Illini1221 said:
I agree 100 percent with this. Obviously Tate cant score, but hes a solid 2nd and third option for the point guard spot. As much as we all love Lucas, he looked terrible the other night.
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Just going off of memory I can’t recall him doing much, since he only played spot minutes from time to time. I remember that he was called for a carry in the first half when the refs were whistle happy, and then he had a nice assist to TJL for a 3 pointer. Just wondering what you saw that warrants you calling his play "terrible"?
 
#86      

Calvin

C
Calvin
IlliniInTexas said:
I think the big mistake that Groce made with Keon Johnson was that he kept Tate on him almost the entire second half/OT. I know that Jaylon hustled his !!! off and mostly did a good job, but good players can make adjustments against a single defender, evidenced by that that up and under after the spin at the end of regulation.

I really want to see Groce switch up defenders on this guy. Switch off between size and speed, between Abrams, TJL, and DJW. Maybe even throw in an MH in there for a few possessions. If we can keep one guy to 30 (inefficiently), and the rest of the team to 30, we win big.
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Keon was just plain sick against us. Honestly, the answer for a guy like that who can do so much damage driving, is to have good team defense, which we don't have. He's faster than anyone we have, so you have to be ready to switch. Even then, he was also able to pass to the open man, so it was doubly rough. He beat us off the dribble too much, but give him credit as well --he was playing us like an instrument and had some nice dishes.
 
#87      

ChiefIllini

C
ChiefIllini
Calvin said:
Keon was just plain sick against us. Honestly, the answer for a guy like that who can do so much damage driving, is to have good team defense, which we don't have. He's faster than anyone we have, so you have to be ready to switch. Even then, he was also able to pass to the open man, so it was doubly rough. He beat us off the dribble too much, but give him credit as well --he was playing us like an instrument and had some nice dishes.
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The thing that bothers me is we had a chance to win it probably over 10 possessions, we just needed one more stop or one more basket. He played great, but he also had give or take 6 pts that wouldnt have fallen 9 out of 10 nights. When we let it go to OT I knew it was over.
 
#88      

Calvin

C
Calvin
ChiefIllini said:
The thing that bothers me is we had a chance to win it probably over 10 possessions, we just needed one more stop or one more basket. He played great, but he also had give or take 6 pts that wouldnt have fallen 9 out of 10 nights. When we let it go to OT I knew it was over.
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Yup. He had some tough shots fall, we missed a number of opportunities, and we aren't good enough defensively to get stops when we need them. Unfortunately, I think that is going to be the story for many games this year :(
 
#90      

Dan

Dan
Admin
Dan
Game Notes

BTN Plus: Zach Prelutsky, Masaki Sugimoto, Cassie Carlson

http://www.fightingillini.com/news/...-illinois-game-notes-vs-central-michigan.aspx
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John Groce previews Central Michigan

Groce: Shorter with practices this next week during finals stretch.

Groce: Much more of a player-led team than we did last year.

Groce: Just left a staff meeting. We haven't come close to reaching our ceiling yet.

Groce: CMU scores 100 points like they breathe air.

Groce: They have a lot of shooters. Lot of energy. I like their team.

Groce: We've played some really good guards. That prepares us a bit for CMU's strong guards. These two are very good.

Groce: You either enjoy watching these guards on film or you get a pit in your stomach thinking about guarding them tomorrow.

Groce: My old HS coach said "perfect practice makes perfect" (he said this on Tuesday after IUPUI too)

Groce: Our bench wasn't great the other day.

Groce: In this win streak we've kept control of the ball better, although we were a little sloppy vs. IUPUI

Groce: Malcolm Hill has character and work ethic. If you have that, you'll get better.

Groce: Leron Black has made a jump. A lot like Malcolm (works hard on his own).

Groce: Only a matter of time on Black making 3-pointers. He has made them in practice.

https://twitter.com/pbaileywells
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#91      

FeelYourPaign

FeelYourPaign
So Cal
FeelYourPaign
Just noticed that we are the best team they play all year.
Wonder just how "up" they get for the game as a result. Could be a big one for them emotionally.

They have more important games, but not harder ones, supposedly.
 
#92      

Dan

Dan
Admin
Dan
[YOUTUBE]2TyFK1NkGjM[/YOUTUBE]
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#93      

westcoastillini

W
westcoastillini
Somebody needs to slip espresso beans in Mavs drink. I think it will help with our rebounding! Maybe he will block 5 shots....
 
#94      

ILLTXCAL

I
Austin, TX
ILLTXCAL
Defensively...Mav imitates a tree and let's his opponents score on him at will.
 
#95      

FeelYourPaign

FeelYourPaign
So Cal
FeelYourPaign
It looks like this game will be re-aired on Monday at noon, Central.
That's on BTN HD.
If you're willing to wait.
 
#97      

illinimike

I
Wheaton, IL
illinimike
Is there a radio station in the western suburbs where I can catch the game?
 
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