I would start JCL and ThOrne(for now) DJW would get mega minutes off the bench. I know we got some seniors and what not but Groce might have to bite that bullet and play the young guys. Tate shouldn't be out there and Tracy just isn't what he used to be( as expected). Thorne and Mav can split evenly based on matchup and/or however either is playing that night.
Pregame: Illinois vs NC State, Tuesday, November 29th, 8:00pm CT, ESPNU
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I would start JCL and ThOrne(for now) DJW would get mega minutes off the bench. I know we got some seniors and what not but Groce might have to bite that bullet and play the young guys. Tate shouldn't be out there and Tracy just isn't what he used to be( as expected). Thorne and Mav can split evenly based on matchup and/or however either is playing that night.
5 = Thorne over Mav. Thorne can post up on the block and use that big rear of his to get off a shot/draw a foul. Mav can't. Thorne is also the better rebounder. Neither is good defensively but I give MT the edge there as well.
4 = Leron. Can defend and especially rebound better than Finke. I like Finke as a change of pace guy off the bench.
3 = Malcolm. No explanation needed. DJ with minutes here.
2 = JCL Needs to get himself going, is by far the best scorer we have at this position. Part of the reason Hill is struggling is we have no consistent second option. JCL solves that if he can get his butt going. TA and AJ as subs here.
1 = TA He's not quite the same player as he was, but gives us the best combination of experience and talent. TJL as a major minutes sub here going forward.
4 = Leron. Can defend and especially rebound better than Finke. I like Finke as a change of pace guy off the bench.
3 = Malcolm. No explanation needed. DJ with minutes here.
2 = JCL Needs to get himself going, is by far the best scorer we have at this position. Part of the reason Hill is struggling is we have no consistent second option. JCL solves that if he can get his butt going. TA and AJ as subs here.
1 = TA He's not quite the same player as he was, but gives us the best combination of experience and talent. TJL as a major minutes sub here going forward.
I know we don't get to see practice, but I (and many others) agree 100% with this lineup. I'm baffled as to why this seems obvious to casual fans but beyond the grasp of the staff.
illini80
- Forgottonia
TJL has earned more playing time, but for some of you frothing about him not playing more, last I heard he considered himself 90% healthy. Giving him too many minutes when he's not fully recovered is not helping him. I can find plenty of faults with Groce, but that's not one of them.
Even in our alternate universe we dropped one?? C'mon man!
We're definitely undefeated in the slightly further deviated alternate universe where our lineup is Jawun Evans, Shake Milton, Malcolm Hill, Alec Peters, and Isaac Humphries, with Quentin Snider, JCL, Leron Black, and Carlton Bragg off the bench. Third String PG Charlie Moore looks good in mop-up minutes, but probably won't get much run until at least next year. Bet he'd put up 20 ppg for a team like Cal that's hurting for a scoring lead guard. Glad we got in on Peters early - his only other real offer was from Valpo. Crazy to think that 7 or 8 guys on the team could eventually make NBA rosters. Evans, Milton, Peters, and are no-doubt 1st rounders. Malcolm will probably be a 2nd rounder, but he's got to be the best 3rd option in America. On an average B1G team he'd score 18 a game. I think we're finally elite?!
We're definitely undefeated in the slightly further deviated alternate universe where our lineup is Jawun Evans, Shake Milton, Malcolm Hill, Alec Peters, and Isaac Humphries, with Quentin Snider, JCL, Leron Black, and Carlton Bragg off the bench. Third String PG Charlie Moore looks good in mop-up minutes, but probably won't get much run until at least next year. Bet he'd put up 20 ppg for a team like Cal that's hurting for a scoring lead guard. Glad we got in on Peters early - his only other real offer was from Valpo. Crazy to think that 7 or 8 guys on the team could eventually make NBA rosters. Evans, Milton, Peters, and are no-doubt 1st rounders. Malcolm will probably be a 2nd rounder, but he's got to be the best 3rd option in America. On an average B1G team he'd score 18 a game. I think we're finally elite?!
That's more like it!!
Kenpom has us starting conference play 0-11.
Really hard to imagine we could go that long without a win....unless you've watched the last 3 games and also consider that the BIG only has a couple teams as bad as we are.
When was the last time we started a season this poorly? Seems like we usually have a great non-conf only to fall apart in conference play.
Last year's non-conference season felt this bad...
We are 0-3 with Leron this year. Not what I thought I would say about his return.
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Leron is not the reason we're losing.
8-5 non-conf. last year.
3-5 after the first 8 with losses to powerhouse programs North Florida and Chattanooga.
I agree with everything but I think we need to see Black and Finke together. Right now, Morgan and Thorne just can't give us anything when they play against guys their size. Whoever plays C out of Thorne, Morgan, and Finke is going to be a liability defensively. So I say play smaller and quicker.
Only reason I disagree is the ability of Thorne to give us a low post presence on O so we can maybe create some shots for MH and others. Playing small with Finke/Black could work in spurts, or against smaller teams.
Well said, from the train wreck I've seen so far it falls on the coaching staff. This is a talented team which would be cracking the top 20 if someone like Bob Huggins was coaching it up.
Oh I know, I totally agree. Just not a sentence I thought I would be saying. This team (coaching included) has not come together to play good basketball consistently like we hoped. It's one thing to have the wheels come off during B1G play. At least we have the chance of the argument, "well they played well in non-conference, the B1G is just tough." But the last two years the wheels have come off earlier and earlier. Lack of development as a team from the players and coaches is what will kill a program. Can you imagine what people would be thinking if Jeremiah didn't sign?
Joel Goodson
- dawgville
Nope. A sieve defensive team doesn't crack the top 20. Huggins is a very good coach, but he's not a miracle worker. Our guys are lousy defensively (with few exceptions) and another coach isn't going to make them quicker and more athletic.
Looking for some evidence that Groce knows how to coach. Zip thus far. Really don't want to blow it up, but, if he doesn't right the ship, he needs to be replaced.
JCL has struggled so much with his shot and really looks one dimensional that I wouldn't put him in the starting lineup .
I could swap Thorne for Mav but ultimately I would stay big on the wings in MH and DJW which should make it easier to feed the post and see over the defense.
We are playing the #1 PG in the freshmen class in Smith and I would love to see TJL get that matchup. You match their size on the wings with our own legit size on the wings and we try and get out and run as much as possible .
Hope?
TJL is part of the equation if Groce can get over his affection for the upper class men. Experience helps if it's used right. But having it all on the floor and no athletes is killing Groce then when he adjust and put ONE on the floor, Black he I see playing from behind trying to come from behind, he does the same with TJL. "Hey TJL and Black then seniors have created this problem now go fix it. DJ isn't the answer either but he has better handles than Hill and see's the floor better than Abrams on top of that being 6'7" he give u explosion of athleticism now granted he needs work but he is what u want on the floor not on the bench. He should be spelling Hill always and be told to go produce or sit he can create he has an upside, Tate, Abrams, Mav, well....
TJL is part of the equation if Groce can get over his affection for the upper class men. Experience helps if it's used right. But having it all on the floor and no athletes is killing Groce then when he adjust and put ONE on the floor, Black he I see playing from behind trying to come from behind, he does the same with TJL. "Hey TJL and Black then seniors have created this problem now go fix it. DJ isn't the answer either but he has better handles than Hill and see's the floor better than Abrams on top of that being 6'7" he give u explosion of athleticism now granted he needs work but he is what u want on the floor not on the bench. He should be spelling Hill always and be told to go produce or sit he can create he has an upside, Tate, Abrams, Mav, well....
By P5 standards, I think that Tracy, Tate, Te'Jon, JCL, Hill, AJ, Finke, and Thorne are average all around athletes for their size/positions. Black and DJW are above average but not elite. Mav is below average. Some would contend that Thorne and Finke are a notch below average, as well. I'm not sure we have the horses to do much of anything. We need to play smart and make shots. That's the one thing we have: lots of guys who can get hot and score. Just need to put them in better situations and discover a way to play passable defense.
Illini1221
Peru,IL
Should be an interesting game Tuesday. Dont know a ton about NC State, but I know that their point guard is one of the best freshman in the country, Dennis Smith Jr. Im excited to, hopefully, see Tejon matched up with him. Could be a major measuring stick as to where Tejon is at right now, especially defensively. If Groce lets Tate follow Smith around the whole game, it could be Keon Johnson part 2. But all in all, Im excited to see how Tejon matches up with one of the best guards in the country.
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I won't be too surprised if Loyola ends up being better than us this year. But still I think this game is very winnable for us.
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