Spot on. Half of Toledo fans are part timers for their fettish with the Bucknuts. They were more mad about being called out, than the actual upset itself. I enjoyed the celebration in Little Rock. Arkansas always played poorly at that neutral site anyways.
Pregame: Illinois vs Toledo, Saturday, September 2nd, 6:30pm CT, BTN
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pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
That one is just hilarious … Fick knows better than that …
Honestly … It fires Bret up and that carries over to the team so I’m good with it …
Bret loves those top 100 lists his guys are left off of as well … That really, really gets him ticked …
It really really should.................
Great take. The only thing I'm surprised you didn't touch on is the absolute ridiculous amount of field space we waste behind both end zones compared to some other big ten stadiums. See below compared to kinnick:Thanks!! And yes, responding to yours and other comments on my MS Paint handiwork, plus some other random thoughts of my own...
1. I could not agree more that it is not really about how MANY seats we have; it is about the layout. As another poster said, the Big House's 110k+ are not much louder than our 48k vs. Iowa ... it's all about how the stadium is built. And loud stadiums are enclosed to trap the noise. Consider the following two stadiums that are materially smaller than ours but look more complete, trap the noise better and generally make better use of the seats they do have (you'll notice neither has any seats underneath a balcony overhang).
Minnesota: 6,523 fewer seats
Baylor: 15,530 fewer!!!
2. On that note, people shouldn't think of relocating capacity to the Horseshoe as KEEPING the Horseshoe ... the Horseshoe needs to be demolished. The fact that you have twice the seats in the Horseshoe as you do in the student section shows just how inefficiently and architecturally lame we made that structure. If you took all the seats from underneath the East Balcony overhang and added it to the Horseshoe but built the structure below, I bet you would actually have a net REDUCTION in capacity, as newer stadiums/seats just have lower capacities because they're less cramped in:
View attachment 27853
Now that is just a thing of beauty. The problem with the current Horseshoe (and the NEZ, to a lesser extent) is that the seats/design of Memorial Stadium between the end zones is truly "grand" in its appearance. When the seats in the end zone are as mundane (at best) or even ugly (at worst) as the Horseshoe, it looks like we have two different stadiums mashed together, and (in my humble opinion) starts to take away from some of the beauty of Memorial Stadium.
The first picture below looks like we have a stadium comparable to Ohio State (specifically) or another Blue Blood, as your mind fills in the rest of the stadium looking that grand ... the second one looks like a (kind of) nice high school stadium in Texas, lol.
View attachment 27854
I know I complain about the Horseshoe a lot ... but I only do it because I care, and I see such limitless potential in our stadium. Perception is crafted by a game of inches, and improvements that might not seem that essential (like renovating the Horseshoe) can end up making a massive difference. Once Bret strings together some more winning seasons and our attendance/donor money keeps increasing, I think Josh definitely sees the value in renovating Memorial Stadium in a way that maintains its classic look while improving on it. It really could be one of the most iconic venues in the Big Ten ... we are gifted with an absolutely incredible and unique starting point, we just have to touch up some areas.
I think this is one of the biggest missed opportunities with the beauty of memorial stadium. Bring the fans closer to the field.
GrayGhost77
- Centennial, CO
A long remnant of when Memorial Stadium held a full size track. But yeah, that needs to be fixed.
chiefini
- Rockford, Illinois
When the ‘80’s Belonged to the Illini, we sat in the bleachers they had put up that were very close to the field in the south horseshoe in front of the brick wall. This photo is from October 29, 1983, when Illinois beat Michigan to go to the Rose Bowl. Sorry the quality is so poor, but you can get the idea. The crowd was enormous and extremely loud that day. I was worried those bleachers were going to collapse as we stood and jumped up and down the entire game. After the victory, the fans rushed the field and took down the goalposts. I’m sure there were liability issues, but I’d sure like those bleachers put back up. Oh, to have those sellout crowds again…
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Great photos. Would love to see bleachers back on the field like this.
I could have missed it....what is your score prediction for the game?
Head 27-21 Illini
Heart 28-20 Rockets
I like the under 49.5. I like Toledo +10. The current +9 is a stay away. But I took us ML with a full unit for fun.
Turnover battle will be key. UT gave it up a lot, yall took it away a lot in 2022. Finn and the Secondary will impress regardless of outcome.
Apparently Fighter really hates the Horseshoe. I don't mind it that much, but my biggest beef is that it is too far from the back of the endzone as pointed out above. Here is my stab at a MS Paint renovation blueprint.Thanks!! And yes, responding to yours and other comments on my MS Paint handiwork, plus some other random thoughts of my own...
1. I could not agree more that it is not really about how MANY seats we have; it is about the layout. As another poster said, the Big House's 110k+ are not much louder than our 48k vs. Iowa ... it's all about how the stadium is built. And loud stadiums are enclosed to trap the noise. Consider the following two stadiums that are materially smaller than ours but look more complete, trap the noise better and generally make better use of the seats they do have (you'll notice neither has any seats underneath a balcony overhang).
Minnesota: 6,523 fewer seats
Baylor: 15,530 fewer!!!
2. On that note, people shouldn't think of relocating capacity to the Horseshoe as KEEPING the Horseshoe ... the Horseshoe needs to be demolished. The fact that you have twice the seats in the Horseshoe as you do in the student section shows just how inefficiently and architecturally lame we made that structure. If you took all the seats from underneath the East Balcony overhang and added it to the Horseshoe but built the structure below, I bet you would actually have a net REDUCTION in capacity, as newer stadiums/seats just have lower capacities because they're less cramped in:
View attachment 27853
Now that is just a thing of beauty. The problem with the current Horseshoe (and the NEZ, to a lesser extent) is that the seats/design of Memorial Stadium between the end zones is truly "grand" in its appearance. When the seats in the end zone are as mundane (at best) or even ugly (at worst) as the Horseshoe, it looks like we have two different stadiums mashed together, and (in my humble opinion) starts to take away from some of the beauty of Memorial Stadium.
The first picture below looks like we have a stadium comparable to Ohio State (specifically) or another Blue Blood, as your mind fills in the rest of the stadium looking that grand ... the second one looks like a (kind of) nice high school stadium in Texas, lol.
View attachment 27854
I know I complain about the Horseshoe a lot ... but I only do it because I care, and I see such limitless potential in our stadium. Perception is crafted by a game of inches, and improvements that might not seem that essential (like renovating the Horseshoe) can end up making a massive difference. Once Bret strings together some more winning seasons and our attendance/donor money keeps increasing, I think Josh definitely sees the value in renovating Memorial Stadium in a way that maintains its classic look while improving on it. It really could be one of the most iconic venues in the Big Ten ... we are gifted with an absolutely incredible and unique starting point, we just have to touch up some areas.
What to note:
1. Playing off of Fighter's original renovation to the East Main stands, the East Main stands are now identical to the West Main stands: ~44 rows of seats, a brick wall, and then a new East Colonnades Club under the overhang. The removal of all the current seats under the overhang would theoretically allow for a more comprehensive renovation of the east concourse like was done on the west side.
2. The East Balcony is unchanged from today.
3. The Sound Endzone seats are extended closer to the field. No longer are the first ~15 rows missing from sections 113-119.
4. Most notably, the North Endzone is now a carbon copy of the South Endzone.
5. Symmetry, symmetry, symmetry. I think it makes a big difference.
6. Estimated capacity: 60,591
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
I highly doubt they change the NEZ anytime soon
I also highly doubt they do anything remotely like you suggest to the east side
the SEZ yes
symmetry is simply NOT that important of a concept at all in architecture .
Balance ? yes . but that can be achieved without symmetry
I also highly doubt they do anything remotely like you suggest to the east side
the SEZ yes
symmetry is simply NOT that important of a concept at all in architecture .
Balance ? yes . but that can be achieved without symmetry
redwingillini11
White and Sixth
- North Aurora
Agreed. There are plenty of great stadiums that aren't symmetrical. The NEZ structure will remain, what will be interesting to see is if 10-15 years from now we can repurpose the top of it.
Hopefully with all of this B1G money that is going to start pouring in is if we can put together a project for the SEZ within the next few years. But maybe we will have to wait until the next tv/realignment deal comes together to make sure we are locked into the P2 money universe and we do not get left behind by Michigan, OSU, etc. joining a super league. We do not want to find ourselves like Oregon State finishing a major project and then finding out the expected source of money is suddenly gone.
If they eliminated the overhang seats on the east and did similar club seats as on the west it could be the "50 Club" to mirror the "77 Club" on the west side. It would even match with wear the respective statues are. Though it might get a little confusing, everyone might think their seats are at midfield even if they're in the corner.
Part of me wants them to redo the SEZ as soon as possible, but part of me wants them to wait until demand for tickets goes way up after several more successful seasons so they make the structure as grand as possible. Not only would it look a lot better to either have an upper deck, or just be a steep single structure, but it would also trap the crowd noise better, and maybe help with the wind issues we've always had.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
This was also the case in Ohio Stadium until the renovation in 2000 lowered the field, removed the track, and put fans right on top of the field on three sides. This is what it looked like before the reno, with as much or more space behind the end zones than in Memorial Stadium. They've actually still got a lot of real estate behind the north EZ today compared with Michigan and Iowa. Kinnick, BTW, is a great place to see a game IMO. Michigan, as Fighter noted, not so much: it's the most pedestrian and boring of the big-time program stadiums.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I definitely hate the Horseshoe.
With that said, what you are envisioning is INFINITELY better, and I would like that setup a lot. Again, I think the ultimate goal is to create a cool atmosphere for fans, players and recruits, and the single most important component that we can control (i.e., not the butts in the seats or how good the team is that year) is making the visiting team feel "enclosed" and like the fans are on top of them. This draft would be a great improvement on what it feels like now. The one thing I think we need to make sure of is that whatever revamp of the Horseshoe happens, it needs to pay tribute to the beautiful brick architecture of the east and west stands ... that is an absolutely defining feature of our stadium. Please no Soldier Field-esque spaceships on top of a classic looking building.Personally, I would prefer beefing up the south end zone (currently Horseshoe) with as much capacity as possible and making the north end zone (currently the student section structure) something kind of creative that mostly adds to the aesthetic of the stadium rather than functioning as another area for generic seats (e.g., a beer garden or family area?) ... but that is just me. Some examples below are of end zones that still fill in the stadium and add to the architecture but actually use up very little or even NONE of the capacity.
Oklahoma State
TCU
Indiana
Texas Tech (Rendering)
Missouri (Rendering)
Again ... I totally understand money and logistics might be hinderances, but I am simply talking about what I think would be cool. My dream Memorial Stadium fills in the south end zone with a more impressive/larger structure similar to the rendering posted above but ideally incorporating some column architecture. Then the north end zone could be something like a combination of the Texas Tech and Mizzou pictures above, tailored to our stadium's brick/column vibe.
Sorry to take us so off topic, but Memorial Stadium is technically pretty relevant to the home opener!
TentakilRex
- Land O Insects between Quincy-Macomb-Jacksonville
(I don't what most of this stuff means right now)
It means a very close game is predicted. The team that makes the least mistakes will win.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
As this one gets closer, I am definitely getting more nervous. It's not so much about the fact that Toledo is obviously good enough to beat us (I think the vast majority of us would agree with this, right?) or that it's almost go time. It's more that this is the type of game you just want to survive and get it over with! Casual fans who don't know that much about college football will not judge us for losing on the road to Kansas, much less at home vs. a top 10 Penn State team. However, rightly or wrongly, I worry that a home loss to Toledo to start the season will deflate some of the enthusiasm among the fan base. And we need our fans out in full force this year, especially for the PSU game.
Think of this somewhat similarly to basketball efficiency stats but it deals with expected pts (epa), success rate (better than avg. yardage considering down and distance), and creating productive drives (eckel).
Basically what this is saying is we're expected to be an elite defensive team and a middle of the road offensive team that will be solid at running the ball, that will produce less productive drives and scoring off productive drives than we would like.
Toledo is projected to be elite when it comes to both allowing productive drives and limiting pts on the drives that are productive on defense. They're expected to have a middling offense that struggles with stalling out, are poor when it comes to field position, and have a solid defense against the pass though are susceptible to the run.
So to summarize, expect a lower scoring defensive battle that will hinge on timely turnovers, special teams, and defensive stands when each team does have good scoring opportunities. In other words, take the Under and expect to cash. And betting a Toledo ATS along with the Under will likely be a popular parlay
You're not wrong at all. A loss in this one in front of our home crowd will likely lead to fan response similar to 2002 where you're in a deep hole before you begin the season. Plus this in theory is the easiest of our first 3 games, so it'd be easy to see us at 1-2 or even 0-3 and by that point, the casual Illini fan (and even some of us hardened Illini fans) will say, yep, just another typical Illini season of failure and give up. So, yeah, winning this one is pretty huge.
Kansas and Toledo couldn't be more different of opponents. Kansas is one of the 7 or 8 teams with a worse recruited roster than the Illini in the P5. Illinois has done much better lately... and Kansas has too? but from 125th to 80th is. Illinois near 60th.
Kansas has an elite QB with a fun, score quick offense paired with an atrocious defense. Toledo is a defensive team with a terrific playmaker at QB, but lacking the studs at wr or rb to score 50 a game like Kansas. A good defensive performance yields 30 pts vs. Kansas and probably 14 pts vs. Toledo. A good offensive performance means you score about 28 on Toledo and 42 vs. the Jayhawks. Kansas will likely be an erratic game, and Toledo more subdued and field position oriented.
That being said, the game more likely to be stay close is Toledo IMO. But being able to come out of a hole vs. Kansas should be easier/ pulling away out of comeback range will also be tougher. Basically a 2 TD game either way and the game is probably over vs. Toledo. 2 TDs could be 5 plays vs. Kansas.
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lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
FEI ratings have:
Illinois @ 40
Toledo @ 84
Kansas @ 69
We very well might lose to Toledo. But Kansas on the road is our toughest non-con test.
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
They lost me at Alabama only having 86.5% chance of winning.
I guess first game of the season has these metrics all over the place. I think the odds for Illini winning are slightly understated in the model. Per Vegas odds, I definitely see it closer to Illini winning 60-70% of time and Alabama winning 99.5% of the time.
Either way, expect a close game. Like most seasons, the biggest key will be first game tackling and protecting the ball. If the Illini can do that, I expect an Illini cover of the -9 spread. However, it would not surprise me to see a one score game. Week 0 and Week 1 are always the most difficult to project. My rule still stands: never bet Illini football (or basketball) games.
I agree, if we want PSU to be the big moment it can be, we need to beat Toledo. It's a must win for fan enthusiasm. Kansas a lot less so though losing in a blowout wouldn't be great. 1-1 going into the PSU game would still garner a lot of hype, 2-0 even more. 0-2 and it's going to seem like same old Illinois to a lot of fans, rightly or wrongly. It would also help if PSU beats West Virginia too. A top five PSU coming to town against a buzzed about Illinois on Big Noon would be one of the bigger moments this program has had in a long time.
Toledo is easier for different reasons. Toledo is tougher for different reasons. You'll have more trouble scoring on UT than Kansas. Kansas will score easier and quicker than Toledo could imagine. At least based on preseason projecting.
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