St. Louis Cardinals 2015 Season

#51      

CardsIllinifan8

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I Hate Lemonier said:
I think it is at the 12:15 mark but Dave Cameron guesses Scherzer to St. louis as of 1-14-15.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dave-cameron-fangraphs-chat-11415/#more-173670

I still cannot see us putting 200+ million into a pitcher, but it sure would be fun to start a season with that pitching staff.
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I am going out on a limb to guess that Scherzer gets the same amount of years and maybe less money than what the Tigers offered him last offseason. The Boras schtick is growing thin on teams. IF the Cardinals sign him, it will be to a 4-5 years and 100-120 million.
 
#52      

IanKEvans2

IanKEvans2
IanKEvans2
CardsIllinifan8 said:
I am going out on a limb to guess that Scherzer gets the same amount of years and maybe less money than what the Tigers offered him last offseason. The Boras schtick is growing thin on teams. IF the Cardinals sign him, it will be to a 4-5 years and 100-120 million.
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Despite an AAV of $24-25 million, I'd be very happy with that (objectively of course; not as a Cubs' fan). That's a steal.
 
#53      

I Hate Lemonier

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I Hate Lemonier
CardsIllinifan8 said:
I am going out on a limb to guess that Scherzer gets the same amount of years and maybe less money than what the Tigers offered him last offseason. The Boras schtick is growing thin on teams. IF the Cardinals sign him, it will be to a 4-5 years and 100-120 million.
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Cards were willing to go to 120 million for Lester and Scherzer is a far superior pitcher.

I have to disagree with you on what Scherzer will receive. Tigers offered him 6 years at 144 million. Lester got 6 years 155 million.

I would guess Scherzer lands somewhere between Lester(155) and Kershaw(215).
 
#54      

CardsIllinifan8

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IanKEvans2 said:
Despite an AAV of $24-25 million, I'd be very happy with that (objectively of course; not as a Cubs' fan). That's a steal.
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Someone on MLB network a week ago predicted he would go to the Cardinals, but they should first try to offer him 3-years and $100 million. They made a point that at age 33, he would go back on the market and could get another deal worth 20 mil per. It was very interesting to hear, but don't think Scherzer/Boras would take that.

I Hate Lemonier said:
Cards were willing to go to 120 million for Lester and Scherzer is a far superior pitcher.

I have to disagree with you on what Scherzer will receive. Tigers offered him 6 years at 144 million. Lester got 6 years 155 million.

I would guess Scherzer lands somewhere between Lester(155) and Kershaw(215).
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Oh, I agree with you on all points. He is the superior pitcher (cub fans will argue otherwise), and I am going by the last 3 years too. That is when Scherzer really started to come into his own as a pitcher. I think 120 million could be their tops on what they offer, I don't know, and that is speculation. I still think they have the money to sign Scherzer, Lynn, and Heyward to longterm deals. Anyways, I just see teams getting po'd at Boras, and they have to be flexible in what offers they receive.

Looking at fangraphs, Scherzer and Lynn pitch alike. They are mainly fastball pitchers, with a hard cutter which is their most effective pitch, but Scherzer throws his change a lot more than Lynn. I would like to see Scherzer so he could mentor Lynn. I think Lynn has the skill to get on Scherzer's level.
 
#55      

I Hate Lemonier

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I Hate Lemonier
CardsIllinifan8 said:
Someone on MLB network a week ago predicted he would go to the Cardinals, but they should first try to offer him 3-years and $100 million. They made a point that at age 33, he would go back on the market and could get another deal worth 20 mil per. It was very interesting to hear, but don't think Scherzer/Boras would take that.



Oh, I agree with you on all points. He is the superior pitcher (cub fans will argue otherwise), and I am going by the last 3 years too. That is when Scherzer really started to come into his own as a pitcher. I think 120 million could be their tops on what they offer, I don't know, and that is speculation. I still think they have the money to sign Scherzer, Lynn, and Heyward to longterm deals. Anyways, I just see teams getting po'd at Boras, and they have to be flexible in what offers they receive.

Looking at fangraphs, Scherzer and Lynn pitch alike. They are mainly fastball pitchers, with a hard cutter which is their most effective pitch, but Scherzer throws his change a lot more than Lynn. I would like to see Scherzer so he could mentor Lynn. I think Lynn has the skill to get on Scherzer's level.
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Scherzer has less mileage on his arm as compared to Lester as well. I guess the main fear with him is will he be able to adjust when his fastball loses some hop.

I love Lance Lynn and has proven a lot of naysayers wrong.

I agree that they could afford Heyward, Scherzer and Lynn. Right now Holliday, Waino, Yadi and Peralta make up about 60% of the payroll. If you figure Lynn at 20, Heyward 20 and Scherzer 25 that would be roughly 50% of an increased payroll. It could easily be done.
 
#56      

CardsIllinifan8

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I Hate Lemonier said:
Scherzer has less mileage on his arm as compared to Lester as well. I guess the main fear with him is will he be able to adjust when his fastball loses some hop.

I love Lance Lynn and has proven a lot of naysayers wrong.

I agree that they could afford Heyward, Scherzer and Lynn. Right now Holliday, Waino, Yadi and Peralta make up about 60% of the payroll. If you figure Lynn at 20, Heyward 20 and Scherzer 25 that would be roughly 50% of an increased payroll. It could easily be done.
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And Holliday, Yadi, and Peralta are coming off the books here soon. We might have to suffer with those 3, Scherzer/Heyward/Lynn's contract overlapping each other by 2-years. It won't be that bad. We would know our core players for a good while. Remember with Peralta that his contract is front loaded; so in 2016 he is making $12.5, and 2017 $10 mil. I can see him being traded in either 2016 or 2017. By that time Diaz should be MLB ready.
 
#57      

I Hate Lemonier

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I Hate Lemonier
CardsIllinifan8 said:
And Holliday, Yadi, and Peralta are coming off the books here soon. We might have to suffer with those 3, Scherzer/Heyward/Lynn's contract overlapping each other by 2-years. It won't be that bad. We would know our core players for a good while. Remember with Peralta that his contract is front loaded; so in 2016 he is making $12.5, and 2017 $10 mil. I can see him being traded in either 2016 or 2017. By that time Diaz should be MLB ready.
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Yep and it is why i prefer the Scherzer method over a trade for Hamels. If we trade for Hamels we will lose cost controlled players like Cmart, Marco, Piscotty etc. We will have to replace them with more expensive veterans so the cost savings isn't really there.

Sign Scherzer, Lynn and Heyward and you have a nice transition without having to rebuild or gut the farm system that lacks upper level talent.
 
#58      

CardsIllinifan8

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I Hate Lemonier said:
Yep and it is why i prefer the Scherzer method over a trade for Hamels. If we trade for Hamels we will lose cost controlled players like Cmart, Marco, Piscotty etc. We will have to replace them with more expensive veterans so the cost savings isn't really there.

Sign Scherzer, Lynn and Heyward and you have a nice transition without having to rebuild or gut the farm system that lacks upper level talent.
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I can see your point there. I still prefer Hamels cause he is a lefty, and a damn good in the postseason. And you can't forget that Reyes and Kaminsky will be ready in the next 2 years. Cooney is a stop gap, but how good is he? I don't know.

IF we don't get any pitchers this years, would you go after Jordan Zimmerman next year? I would cause I think he is just getting in his prime, and he steps up when the Nats need it the most. Well, not in 2011 against the Cardinals he didn't (11.25 ERA).
 
#59      

I Hate Lemonier

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I Hate Lemonier
CardsIllinifan8 said:
I can see your point there. I still prefer Hamels cause he is a lefty, and a damn good in the postseason. And you can't forget that Reyes and Kaminsky will be ready in the next 2 years. Cooney is a stop gap, but how good is he? I don't know.

IF we don't get any pitchers this years, would you go after Jordan Zimmerman next year? I would cause I think he is just getting in his prime, and he steps up when the Nats need it the most. Well, not in 2011 against the Cardinals he didn't (11.25 ERA).
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Cooney is likely a decent 5th starter. No problem with him starting games for the Cards.

Lots of options next year with free agents starters. Zimmerman, Price, Latos, Cueto, Fister, Porcello, Samardzia and likely Greinke
 
#60      

CardsIllinifan8

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CardsIllinifan8
I Hate Lemonier said:
Cooney is likely a decent 5th starter. No problem with him starting games for the Cards.

Lots of options next year with free agents starters. Zimmerman, Price, Latos, Cueto, Fister, Porcello, Samardzia and likely Greinke
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This is for you. Greg Amsinger talking to the guys on the fast lane about Scherzer. Be prepared to get blue balled.
 
#61      

I Hate Lemonier

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I Hate Lemonier
CardsIllinifan8 said:
This is for you. Greg Amsinger talking to the guys on the fast lane about Scherzer. Be prepared to get blue balled.
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Thanks!

Very interesting listen. I keep wanting to dismiss these Lester, Hamels and Scherzer rumors because it seems so un Cardinal like but there is so much smoke. Also the Cards are so secretive with their books I think they have a ton of money to spend that we may all be underestimating.
 
#62      

illini8507

illini8507
illini8507
Damn. All this baseball talk is making me depressed, sitting here thinking about an 80 degree June evening sitting on the first baseline, and a cold beer in my hand... why can't that be tomorrow?
 
#63      

CardsIllinifan8

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CardsIllinifan8
illini8507 said:
Damn. All this baseball talk is making me depressed, sitting here thinking about an 80 degree June evening sitting on the first baseline, and a cold beer in my hand... why can't that be tomorrow?
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I'm ready for it. I've been baseball depressed since winter meetings. You're by the river, and can go to plenty of games! Lucky.
 
#64      

CardsIllinifan8

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CardsIllinifan8
@JonHeymanCBS: Lynn gets $22M for 3 yrs. #STLCards
 
#65      

Ryllini

Ryllini
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We just signed Lance Lynn to a new 3 year deal that buys out his ARB year. It is worth 22mil with a potential to earn 23.5 should he reach incentives. I like the deal for both.
 
#66      

I Hate Lemonier

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I Hate Lemonier
Ryllini said:
We just signed Lance Lynn to a new 3 year deal that buys out his ARB year. It is worth 22mil with a potential to earn 23.5 should he reach incentives. I like the deal for both.
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Agreed. Good to get thos arbitration years out of the way and not have any distractions and keep the goodwill going for when it becomes extension time
 
#67      

I Hate Lemonier

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I Hate Lemonier
#71      

illini8507

illini8507
illini8507
Scherzer costs only money and a draft pick, hamels would cost less money but some good prospects. I don't think we could go wrong with either. I like max because he's a hometown guy, but hamels is lefty...

Not real big on renting price for a year. Maybe if I knew he'd sign, but don't think he will. Not sure he'd be a great fit in the clubhouse. Like him as a player though.
 
#74      

bigillinfan11

bigillinfan11
bigillinfan11
I am at Cardinals winter warm up and listened to Mo answers questions from fans. First question was about schrezer and other top pitchers like Hamels and Price and he says its a long shot and he doesn't think it would happen and they want to give Martinez a shot but they are always looking.
 
#75      

CardsIllinifan8

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CardsIllinifan8
bigillinfan11 said:
I am at Cardinals winter warm up and listened to Mo answers questions from fans. First question was about schrezer and other top pitchers like Hamels and Price and he says its a long shot and he doesn't think it would happen and they want to give Martinez a shot but they are always looking.
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Typical Mo answer. He doesn't show his hands at all.