St Louis Cardinals 2023

GILL-INOIS · Jul 6, 2023

the juiceman cometh said:
I actually agree with this. I also think we could have easily been as bad as teams like the Rangers and Angels who've consistently done worse than us, despite spending more. Like I said, I'm ok with canning Mo but with this ownership I wouldn't expect much better from his successor and there's a very real possibility things get worse.

Also, I'm a big fan of Jocketty but the team was not in great shape when he was fired. Losing record that year and 4th place finish the next year. Then from 2009-2015 under Mo we won the division 4 times, 2nd place 3 times, 2 pennants and a WS. Jocketty went to the Reds where he did well, and won a couple division titles but did precisely nothing in the playoffs and the Reds regressed back to a last place team by 2015. I think he was a great GM for his era, but that era had passed by the time the Cards fired him.

Exactly my point. I think Jocketty was a great GM for his era with the Cardinals, MO has been good during his era. Jocketty came a year before ownership change and built this thing back up from scratch in the 90s. He also brought Mo along with him. Transition of vets to young guys is always roulette like we are finding out this season. Exactly what the Cardinals did during some of those transition years. Mo won in 2011, majority were guys under Jocketty's reign. Proven vets but the young guys like Jaime Garcia, Rasmus, Freese, etc who all had big years were drafted while Jocketty was in house. Even more impressive since Wainwright was hurt.

I think there is one big solution down the road for fans who want the Cardinals at a top 10 payroll or better each season...eventually start own Network. They have the diehard fanbase to make this happen. Plus it shouldn't be that hard for fans to watch this team the way it is for some now.

Se Il Illini · Jul 6, 2023

Oldskoolkoach said:
Perhaps the worst way to lose in my 44 years of watching cardinals baseball

Was it 2011? I believe the Cardinals were up 7 or 8 runs in the 9th at Colorado. The Rockkies rallied to win the game.

the national · Jul 6, 2023

GILL-INOIS said:
We also won the World Series in 2006 and 2011 with the 11th payroll both times, once under Jocketty and Mo

JMO but MO is replaceable. Not mentioning usernames but a few on this forum have mentioned they don't think the Cardinals have had a legit shot of winning in 10+ years. Jocketty was the GM who built this thing up not Mo. Jocketty was fired, Luhnow moved on and Mo is still here.

Morgan Freeman Applause GIF by The Academy Awards

the national · Jul 6, 2023

It’s comments like this that absolutely floor me. Every Joe-Shmo on the street can see the pitching problems.

GILL-INOIS · Jul 6, 2023

the national said:
View attachment 27086
It’s comments like this that absolutely floor me. Every Joe-Shmo on the street can see the pitching problems.

6 starting pitchers, 5 starting outfielders

Maybe he should move on to politics with lines like those

whatahack · Jul 6, 2023

My how things have changed...

wpr · Jul 6, 2023

whatahack said:
My how things have changed...

View attachment 27087

I was 10 that year. I thought that was normal not an epic lifetime achievement.

Se Il Illini · Jul 6, 2023

the national said:
View attachment 27086
It’s comments like this that absolutely floor me. Every Joe-Shmo on the street can see the pitching problems.

I said on here someplace that I believed Skip Schumaker was the manager in waiting when the Cardinals hired him. That did not occur obviously. Skip worled for other otganizations which I felt was a plus.

GILL-INOIS · Jul 6, 2023

Not advocating for a managerial move but I have always loved Jose Oquendo at the Major League level. Know he has done instructing at the minor league level but he was an excellent defender at the MLB level. This team has a ton of young guys this season/next season that need some work on D and are utility players.

Se Il Illini · Jul 6, 2023

GILL-INOIS said:
Not advocating for a managerial move but I have always loved Jose Oquendo at the Major League level. Know he has done instructing at the minor league level but he was an excellent defender at the MLB level. This team has a ton of young guys this season/next season that need some work on D and are utility players.

I second these comments about Oquendo.

pruman91 · Jul 6, 2023

YEAH...................0-0 GOING TO TOP OF 2ND......................

Rocket City Illini · Jul 6, 2023

Jack through 5 IP. 0-0.

whatahack · Jul 6, 2023

When he is on, he's as good as anyone

pruman91 · Jul 6, 2023

been reading a lot of nationwide pundits thinking the Cardinals should trade Flaherty AND Montgomery this year..........I say no way because that's taking the best SP's out of a morbid rotation.......haven't read anything about what it would take to re-sign either one or if they would even stay with the Cardinals........................

Flaherty looks great tonight , like the Jack of old............lot of movement on his heater and a real tight slider..............

pruman91 · Jul 6, 2023

Nado is smokin hot........................

viking6888 · Jul 6, 2023

https://twitter.com/miklasz/status/1676777445687427074

Se Il Illini · Jul 6, 2023

pruman91 said:
been reading a lot of nationwide pundits thinking the Cardinals should trade Flaherty AND Montgomery this year..........I say no way because that's taking the best SP's out of a morbid rotation.......haven't read anything about what it would take to re-sign either one or if they would even stay with the Cardinals........................

Flaherty looks great tonight , like the Jack of old............lot of movement on his heater and a real tight slider..............

With Montgomery and maybe Flaherty, it is damned if you do and damned if you don't. Agree. Flaherty has been very good.

pruman91 · Jul 6, 2023

viking6888 said:
https://twitter.com/miklasz/status/1676777445687427074

can't access the link , whats up ??

pruman91 · Jul 6, 2023

THATS A WINNER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Flaherty was excellent
Nado was excellent
Bullpen was excellent

Just an excellent win...................finally....................

FloridaMan · Jul 6, 2023

Se Il Illini said:
With Montgomery and maybe Flaherty, it is damned if you do and damned if you don't. Agree. Flaherty has been very good.

Based on his various comments, along with his personality, I will be surprised if Flaherty signs with the Cardinals. I wonder if it would be better to trade him and get something for him rather than just letting him walk?

AdDoBe · Jul 6, 2023

pruman91 said:
can't access the link , whats up ??

It's a quote from Bill DeWitt Jr circa 2018 after firing Matheny before the All-Star break:

“In some places a winning record, or even .500, is even acceptable. Not with this city, not with this franchise, not with its history, and not with the fans."

IlliniFaninHoosierLand · Jul 6, 2023

pruman91 said:
been reading a lot of nationwide pundits thinking the Cardinals should trade Flaherty AND Montgomery this year..........I say no way because that's taking the best SP's out of a morbid rotation.......haven't read anything about what it would take to re-sign either one or if they would even stay with the Cardinals........................

FloridaMan said:
Based on his various comments, along with his personality, I will be surprised if Flaherty signs with the Cardinals. I wonder if it would be better to trade him and get something for him rather than just letting him walk?

Both Flaherty and Montgomery are free agents after this season. I wouldn't be surprised if they trade one or both before the deadline and get young controllable pitching. I've heard George Kirby in Seattle mentioned as a possibility.

Flaherty is gonna head back to the west coast after this season. The Cardinals have virtually no shot of re-signing him.

pruman91 · Jul 6, 2023

AdDoBe said:
It's a quote from Bill DeWitt Jr circa 2018 after firing Matheny before the All-Star break:

“In some places a winning record, or even .500, is even acceptable. Not with this city, not with this franchise, not with its history, and not with the fans."

thanks

Dee_4_Three_83 · Jul 6, 2023

IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
Both Flaherty and Montgomery are free agents after this season. I wouldn't be surprised if they trade one or both before the deadline and get young controllable pitching. I've heard George Kirby in Seattle mentioned as a possibility.

Flaherty is gonna head back to the west coast after this season. The Cardinals have virtually no shot of re-signing him.

I would like to see them sign Montgomery. I like the way he pitches and he seems pretty durable. I want to see Flaherty continue to have success so we can trade him for a good young starting pitcher. Trades tend to be the way we build things if the farm system isn't getting it done. We may get a few free agents, but I would think that would come in the form of outfield and bullpen.

Here's what I hope the Rotation Next Year looks like:
1. Top of Rotation Starter via Trade in Offseason
2. Montgomery Re-signed
3. Mikolas Re-signed
4. Liberatore Young Cost Controlled
5. Thompson Young Cost Controlled

Ryllini · Jul 6, 2023

It is probably just me, but I don’t see it with Liberatore. You usually can see some flashes in young pitchers, but I don’t. The 5 innings against the Mets this year and a few last year is about it. I’m leery when certain teams(Rays) give up players, “highly rated” ones, for relatively nothing. Jose Martinez was fun and did we really know what we had in Arozarena? Tampa did. Bummer year and this could make you all even more depressed, but we could realistically have an outfield of Luis Robert, Adonis Garcia, and Randy Arozarena. Ooof!

St Louis Cardinals 2023

Greeley, Colorado