Talen Horton-Tucker commits to Iowa State

#201      
This isn't going to be forgotten in a week. It's going to haunt for the duration of his time here, and be the defining moment of his tenure.

We hire a $3 million coach who hires expensive assistants, and in this instance we got amateur hour.
 
#202      
Mr. 29 post man, the stand that was taken was welcome to the big boy university of recruiting. Life moves on. This will be a non story in a week and everyone will be salivating at the next big recruitment.

Whoa, insider alert.

With the early signing period staring Nov. 8th and ending Nov. 15th, we only have a few weeks to salivate over the next big recruitment.

Spill the beans, what do you know?
 
#203      

Ken

chitown
As many times as we have been burned I am not sure I can feel sorry for anyone in this situation considering they are still getting a college scholarship.

If he truly wanted to be an Illini he would have committed sooner because things are always changing and up until around 2 weeks ago only a few really believed he wanted to come here.

Seize the day .
 
#205      

LJ22

Chicago, IL
I personally don’t understand the sudden sanctimonious responses that many of you are giving. If BU would have taken THT and lost Ayo, he would have been roasted. These are some of the things that happen as you navigate the big leagues of high-level NCAA basketball. As long as it’s not rule breaking, I’m fine with it. BU and staff did everything they could to make this work up until the very last minute, but why would he want to bring in a kid who apparently didn’t gel with one of his potential teammates?

No one outside of a 300-mile radius is paying attention to any of this. It doesn’t hurt our national rep, and the only thing that will matter in a few months are wins and losses.

This isn’t even the most embarrassing thing to happen at the University this week: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/2...-teaching-math-university-professor-says.html

My biggest issue - whether it makes me sanctimonious or not - is the specific MIF/AAU tie. This could not have more clearly demonstrated that the MIF do not have Illinois' interests at heart at all, yet it appears we are bending to meet their conditions. Their actions indicate this loyalty street will be one way, and the Illinois basketball program isn't on the right end of that one way.
 
#206      
LJ22 — Of course, I’m assuming what has been widely reported: the scholarship offer was rescinded at the insistence of another recruit’s family and/or Chicago AAU interests. It’s a power game, a game played by those who have only their own selfish and not the University’s best interests at heart. (“Don’t we lose out on a recruit we wanted ?”) And if the facts aren’t as I assume, I’ll pull an Emily Litella (“Never mind.”) and go softly into the night.

And in my view, it didn’t place the staff in a “bad place”, not ethically. You simply say, “We’ve recruited and offered a scholarship to this young man and he’s ready to accept in good faith and that’s that — the University and the Athletic Department won’t be held prisoner to or subservient to the dictates of another recruit’s family or Chicago AAU interests. If you have a problem with that, you’re free to go elsewhere with our best wishes.” Had the staff taken that position, I’d be 100% behind them, whoever they lost as a result and whatever the outcome. That, in my view, would be taking a principled stand. What kind of principled stand was taken ? It happens all the time ? What, exactly, doesn’t that rationalize ?

The principle is simple.....no meeting of the minds no contract. Basic contract law. More importantly, we have a deal we stick to it. By the time THT maybe, possibly wanted to commit he no longer had an offer, i. e. no deal. Good luck to you in Ames.
 
#207      

mattcoldagelli

The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
If you were a parent watching THT cry today, would you ever send your child here to play for this program ?? How can we ever expect our word to mean anything again ?

Mother of god, there aren't enough pearls in the world for all you clutchers.

I remember Bruce Weber - the guy who refused to say Derrick Rose would be a starter - going on The Score and running down Demetri McCamey and his family. I remember the same guy denigrating Dee Brown's NBA potential out of craven self-interest. And I'm sure I don't need to remind everyone of the time he sat in front of the media and wished he had Purdue's players instead of the guys he recruited.

Every single one of those instances struck me as grosser violation of trust than what happened today. I wish THT could've played here, especially if that's what he really wanted, but he gets a clean slate at arguably the second-best program in the Big XII, and he's probably going to have a great career there.

Those Weber shots were delivered after our guys had signed up, in some instances after they'd played for him for YEARS. And when push came to shove, he turned them into excuses for his inability to get the job done.

All you "old-timers" apparently had no issue with that. Because Bruce would never tell a recruit "what he wanted to hear" or "play the game" in Chicago amirite?
 
#208      

skyIdub

Winged Warrior
Mother of god, there aren't enough pearls in the world for all you clutchers.

I remember Bruce Weber - the guy who refused to say Derrick Rose would be a starter - going on The Score and running down Demetri McCamey and his family. I remember the same guy denigrating Dee Brown's NBA potential out of craven self-interest. And I'm sure I don't need to remind everyone of the time he sat in front of the media and wished he had Purdue's players instead of the guys he recruited.

Every single one of those instances struck me as grosser violation of trust than what happened today. I wish THT could've played here, especially if that's what he really wanted, but he gets a clean slate at arguably the second-best program in the Big XII, and he's probably going to have a great career there.

Those Weber shots were delivered after our guys had signed up, in some instances after they'd played for him for YEARS. And when push came to shove, he turned them into excuses for his inability to get the job done.

All you "old-timers" apparently had no issue with that. Because Bruce would never tell a recruit "what he wanted to hear" or "play the game" in Chicago amirite?


+1
Reality check.
 
#209      

kcib8130

Parts Unknown
Mother of god, there aren't enough pearls in the world for all you clutchers.

I remember Bruce Weber - the guy who refused to say Derrick Rose would be a starter - going on The Score and running down Demetri McCamey and his family. I remember the same guy denigrating Dee Brown's NBA potential out of craven self-interest. And I'm sure I don't need to remind everyone of the time he sat in front of the media and wished he had Purdue's players instead of the guys he recruited.

Every single one of those instances struck me as grosser violation of trust than what happened today. I wish THT could've played here, especially if that's what he really wanted, but he gets a clean slate at arguably the second-best program in the Big XII, and he's probably going to have a great career there.

Those Weber shots were delivered after our guys had signed up, in some instances after they'd played for him for YEARS. And when push came to shove, he turned them into excuses for his inability to get the job done.

All you "old-timers" apparently had no issue with that. Because Bruce would never tell a recruit "what he wanted to hear" or "play the game" in Chicago amirite?

How about the people saying bring back Groce? We wanted big-boy recruiting, then disparage everyone involved when we do. Can't have your cake and eat it too at this point.
 
#210      

mattcoldagelli

The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
This is all whataboutism. What happened today was crappy and likely hurts is with many more recruits than it helps with regardless of what Bruce did in the past.

I'm directly addressing the "I've been a fan for 40 years, and I never..." crowd.
 
#211      
Pulling the offer to me wouldn't be a story worthy of national attention, but doing it under the premise an AAU coach dictated the action could be a story a national guy would love to publish.

And since at the moment this appears to have been what happened, I very much believe this story will go national...
 
#212      
Usually don't root for players who go elsewhere, but I'm gonna root for this kid. I hope he almost makes the Illini regret what they did.
 
#213      

Deleted member 11241

D
Guest
This isn't big boy recruiting. This is amateur hour. Coach K or Cal wouldn't take orders from the Irvins or anyone like them.

K and Cal also have programs that compete for national championships on a yearly basis and have multiple 5* athletes to choose from, we don't.
 
#214      
This isn't big boy recruiting. This is amateur hour. Coach K or Cal wouldn't take orders from the Irvins or anyone like them.

Not disagreeing with you, but I don't know if this is the case or not.

What I do know is that to the extent that the Coach K's or Cals may be "taking orders" from the Irvins or anyone like them, we certainly aren't seeing it play out in the manner that today's events are reputed to have played out. An "order" from a friend be phrased to sound like a request. And I'm sure that there are tons of quid pro quos that occur in the Duke and Kentucky relationships with leading AAU programs nationwide. It will be interesting to see if new or different information regarding what transpired comes out over the next few days.
 
#215      
Yup, for sure. 100%. Defining moment of his tenure and he hasnt coached a game. yup yup yup. you're right

True, he hasn't coached a game yet. What I fear, and I sure as heck hope I'm wrong, is that this is going to be like Kris Berymon, Billy Morris, and Alvin O'Neal were for Harv Schmidt right when he had things going. Maybe this will blow over. Or maybe we'll read an article quoting Robert Smith as saying he won't allow Illinois on Simeon's property again, and Ayo takes Danny Manning's phone call to say you can still come to Wake and nobody will blame you for anything.
I do hope I'm wrong and this is soon forgotten. But I don't think it will be.
 
#216      
True, he hasn't coached a game yet. What I fear, and I sure as heck hope I'm wrong, is that this is going to be like Kris Berymon, Billy Morris, and Alvin O'Neal were for Harv Schmidt right when he had things going. Maybe this will blow over. Or maybe we'll read an article quoting Robert Smith as saying he won't allow Illinois on Simeon's property again, and Ayo takes Danny Manning's phone call to say you can still come to Wake and nobody will blame you for anything.
I do hope I'm wrong and this is soon forgotten. But I don't think it will be.

Now that's old school. Haven't heard a Berymon reference since Brumby did that series on Illini recruiting history.
 
#218      
It's all about Honor, Pride & Loyalty. Three words that most of us here have long associated with this program.

Weber was a punk for throwing players under the bus and I said as much at the time. It also likely contributed to him losing control over later teams. My avatar is a photo of McCamey I took myself on the baseline of MSG and it pained me how dysfunctional that relationship became.

I personally would NOT have called for BU's head if he signed THT and then lost a player like AYO who had more loyalty to his AAU coach than the U of I. All Brad would have needed to say was "We only want players who want to play at the Univ of Illinois" (just as with Tilmon, Castleton, Nolley, etc.) and I would have been 100% behind him. I would have felt like there is a guy who doesn't take any sh*t and has enough confidence in his coaching ability to not risk an entire program's integrity over a single recruit--no matter how highly ranked. Instead he looked like a guy who just got played trying to appease a teenager and a narcissistic AAU coach.

Does anyone really believe that every other B1G coach isn't going to have a field day with this in future close recruiting battles? Does anyone really believe that this isn't going to impact the way CPL coaches advise future recruits? Or that it won't piss off alums like Deon and others who helped recruit THT?

Again, you are fully entitled to feel however you want about this all. Not here to judge. Just expressing how bummed I am that all of the excitement of the last 6 months now just feels tainted and a bit hollow. For me, that's not something that will simply disappear after signing the next big recruit or scoring more points. Perhaps naively, I just thought we were better than this--that Josh Whitman had set a tone of Honor, Pride & Loyalty. Those all felt a bit in short supply today for me, regardless of how anyone else feels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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#219      
Exactly. They played AAU together and it didn't work. So THT got more offers at Team Rose but he always had one at Illinois. He could of committed earlier and not burn bridges. Winning and style of play will repair optics.

So you're saying he was waiting for something better that never came?
 
#220      

audie

The Great Northwest
Best of luck, Talen!!!

It's all about Honor, Pride & Loyalty. Three words that most of us here have long associated with this program.

Weber was a punk for throwing players under the bus and I said as much at the time. It also likely contributed to him losing control over later teams. My avatar is a photo of McCamey I took myself on the baseline of MSG and it pained me how dysfunctional that relationship became.

I personally would NOT have called for BU's head if he signed THT and then lost a player like AYO who had more loyalty to his AAU coach than the U of I. All Brad would have needed to say was "We only want players who want to play at the Univ of Illinois" (just as with Tilmon, Castleton, Nolley, etc.) and I would have been 100% behind him. I would have felt like there is a guy who doesn't take any sh*t and has enough confidence in his coaching ability to not risk an entire program's integrity over a single recruit--no matter how highly ranked. Instead he looked like a guy who just got played trying to appease a teenager and a narcissistic AAU coach.

Does anyone really believe that every other B1G coach isn't going to have a field day with this in future close recruiting battles? Does anyone really believe that this isn't going to impact the way CPL coaches advise future recruits? Or that it won't piss off alums like Deon and others who helped recruit THT?

Again, you are fully entitled to feel however you want about this all. Not here to judge. Just expressing how bummed I am that all of the excitement of the last 6 months now just feels tainted and a bit hollow. For me, that's not something that will simply disappear after signing the next big recruit or scoring more points. Perhaps naively, I just thought we were better than this--that Josh Whitman had set a tone of Honor, Pride & Loyalty. Those all felt a bit in short supply today for me, regardless of how anyone else feels.

I agree with you, Seagee.

Okay, I'm naive and out-of-touch. I thought if a player we recruited--and wined and dined with an official visit--wanted to be an ILLINI, he just needed to say so. Apparently Talen and his family wanted to come be apart of it--and said so. He should be part of the Illini family tonight, and I'm saddened that he's not.

I'll now have a new rooting interest in Iowa State. Unless, of course, somehow magically the wrong is righted over the next week and Talen gets to wear orange & blue! I can dream, right?
 
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#221      
Thought I had seen it all but today takes the cake. Can't blame Underwood for trying to build the best possible team he can. This just underscores what a quagmire Chicago recruiting is. It might have been better handled but Illinois was put between a rock and a hard place. We can second guess the decision made but can't really know what all went in to making this decision. Hopefully, this can be quickly put behind us and the fall-out is minimal.
 
#222      
MIF had this card to play with this coaching staff once. Now they have to deliver players. If they don’t deliver players, the next time they make demands of the staff, they’ll be ignored.
 
#223      

Ken

chitown
Does anyone really believe that every other B1G coach isn't going to have a field day with this in future close recruiting battles? Does anyone really believe that this isn't going to impact the way CPL coaches advise future recruits? Or that it won't piss off alums like Deon and others who helped recruit THT?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I dont think other Big1 coaches will care one bit that seems to be more of your insecurity than anything tangible because 4 stars get bumped for 5 stars all the time.

What are CPL coaches going to say other than don't keep the state school waiting for months if its where you want to be ?

We offered THT back in April and it seems to me that he overplayed his hand and it simply came back to bite him. Life lesson learned ...Seize the day !
 
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#224      
my guess at this time to explain all the negotiating and wrangling that went on... one side believed issues needed to be addressed and an apology or an acknowledgement made for relational equilibrium to occur. It didn't happen. This would explain N Irvin's comment earlier comment to the effect that he believed they THT & AYO COULD play together.
 
#225      

sbillini

st petersburg, fl
Rough situation, but I agree with those that I would've much preferred BU taking a more principled stance and letting Ayo go if need be.

I said this in the FBI corruption thread and got flak from some for it, but I think it also applies here. I still hold the parents accountable in a large part for allowing these types of situations occur which are in no way positive for the kids. Why Ayo's parents would let his recruitment be usurped by coaching vendettas is beyond me. Especially parents that mere hours earlier say they want what's best for their kid's program (and, implicitly, their kid)...

...let people know it’s ok to be a four-five star recruit from Chicago to stay home and play basketball. The Dosunmus are about winning; if you’re ready to join us and win, the doors are open.”

I guess they forgot to publish the part where he said "...except if MIF doesn't like it. Then we don't really care about the program's future nor what Ayo wants. We'll fold like a tent".

If BU had gone the other way, who loses more than Ayo in that situation? If he doesn't, then THT loses. Coaches still get to play their petty squabbles.

PS - the argument that we didn't wrong THT because we weren't his first choice is shaky at best in my opinion. Right vs. Wrong shouldn't be a relative comparison when it doesn't have to be. When you force a relative comparison, it's usually when both sides are wrong and, thus, creating a slippery slope. I seem to hear this argument a lot these days. I'd rather have our program be in the right and not have to rationalize it (even if it means we don't win as many games).