Talen Horton-Tucker commits to Iowa State

#226      

LJ22

L
Chicago, IL
LJ22
champaignchris said:
MIF had this card to play with this coaching staff once. Now they have to deliver players. If they don’t deliver players, the next time they make demands of the staff, they’ll be ignored.
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At what cost? The Fire could stop sending us players, plus we've also just sent the message that they (the MIF) are our top priority. So as others have said, why would recruits want to come here knowing they may get thrown under the bus if they don't suit MIF's vision or whatever? Why would CPL coaches want to promote Illinois?

I still don't understand how we think we make out well here. If MIF cared about their players and their college success, they'd want the best talent surrounding their kids. MIF would rather satisfy a petty beef than have their kid Ayo play with the best talent available. Seems clear to me they have no interest in seeing Illinois succeed unless it suits them at that moment. This in no way puts us in good hands or in a desirable situation going forward. Do you really think we're more likely to get Adam Miller today than we were a week ago?
 
#227      

Butkus68

B
Butkus68
mattcoldagelli said:
Mother of god, there aren't enough pearls in the world for all you clutchers.

I remember Bruce Weber - the guy who refused to say Derrick Rose would be a starter - going on The Score and running down Demetri McCamey and his family. I remember the same guy denigrating Dee Brown's NBA potential out of craven self-interest. And I'm sure I don't need to remind everyone of the time he sat in front of the media and wished he had Purdue's players instead of the guys he recruited.

Every single one of those instances struck me as grosser violation of trust than what happened today. I wish THT could've played here, especially if that's what he really wanted, but he gets a clean slate at arguably the second-best program in the Big XII, and he's probably going to have a great career there.

Those Weber shots were delivered after our guys had signed up, in some instances after they'd played for him for YEARS. And when push came to shove, he turned them into excuses for his inability to get the job done.

All you "old-timers" apparently had no issue with that. Because Bruce would never tell a recruit "what he wanted to hear" or "play the game" in Chicago amirite?
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Elton & Delton question, for the old-timers. We’re you among those who were only unhappy because we got caught? If memory serves, that news broke while we were all at the Hall. Think about your reaction then. Did you immediately demand that White be fired? Rhetorical question. Come down off that moral high horse. This staff is doing their best to resurrect a broken horse and get it back on track. Chill.
 
#228      

Deleted member 236589

D
Guest
Deleted member 236589
My assumption is that this didn't go down as harshly as what people have conjured up in their heads. My guess is that he wanted THT to hold off on committing until there was time to figure this out(which should have been done before his OV). If he told him...hey, can we just hold off on commiting until we straighten this out, as we need to seriously have a sit-down or everyone will be in a bad spot.

Now, if BU did that and THT's parents said....that's unacceptable. This is all set up today, he's making his decision today, no more discussion....well, it's a bit of a different story. You have to make a decision right then. If BU simply said, we can't do this until all parties are on board and THT's family said no, no more time...then there's only one decision BU could make.

Ayo committed first. End of story. In doing so, he changed the perception of the program. He is a game changer nationally. It's automatically a better option for recruits now that he's on board. Would THT have taken us seriously if not for Ayo? Only he knows that.

So, I don't think BU just blindly pulled the wool out from THT. I think he needed time to get it straightened out(which I'm sure he thought he could) and his hand was forced. Ayo accepted a scholarship a week ago. If you're not first, you're last.

If BU provided an option to just hold off and we'll figure it out, then I'm ok with that. My biggest issue was that it should have been figured out before the OV. If all parties we're on board, then it blew up for whatever reason the day of....it's just an impossible spot for BU. Someone is going to be happy and someone is going to be pissed. Have to make the best decision for the program. That's Ayo, without a doubt

Miss communication happens all the time. It's life. I don't think this went down as cutthroat as people are portraying.
 
#229      

Andy Kaufman

A
Andy Kaufman
I find it hard to believe the board's speculation that BU pulled THT's offer. Stranger things have happened but the Illini aren't really that dysfunctional....are they? I just think the kid picked Iowa State because he didn't want to play second fiddle to Ayo. In my mind, that's not solid thinking on his part but that's the way it is.
 
#230      

TheFameProtector

TheFameProtector
Champaign
TheFameProtector
Andy Kaufman said:
I find it hard to believe the board's speculation that BU pulled THT's offer. Stranger things have happened but the Illini aren't really that dysfunctional....are they? I just think the kid picked Iowa State because he didn't want to play second fiddle to Ayo. In my mind, that's not solid thinking on his part but that's the way it is.
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It's not just board speculation. This story is out - see Michael O'Brien's article.
 
#231      

NB2D

N
NB2D
We knew that there was trouble between the two young men and they tried to work it out. Other people got involved and it would have been a mess to have them both on the same team again. Ayo committed first. I guess we are "stuck" with him for one or two years. I hate to see the Simeon connection affected, but possibly we need for it to end for a few years. The last several players from there have had some baggage. I still think we need a big and then call it good for this recruiting season. I would still consider Tim Finke a good option as well.
 
#232      

Ransom Stoddard

Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
Bloomington, IL
Ransom Stoddard
From what I've picked up from various articles and sources, BU was in a "Sophie's Choice" scenario. If he had gone the other way and accepted THT's commit he was going to lose Ayo, which would have generated the same hand-wringing and anger from a different segment of the fanbase.

On top of that, for better or worse, like it or not, choosing THT was guaranteed to alienate MIF (which is a different problem), but there isn't such certainty with Simeon by taking Ayo.

What I don't think I've seen in this thread is a link between this situation and the shoe company/AAU/agent scenario. I'm not saying there was behind the scenes cash here, as there's no evidence whatsoever of that, but I am saying that there are external factors influencing where kids can and should go based on their AAU (and thus shoe company) affiliation. BU put his eggs in the MIF basket, and I have no doubt he's aware of what that does with his relationship with Simeon.

One other point--THT might have been behind Kipper on the depth chart for a couple of years. No way of knowing that for sure, but I'm guessing he's going to see the court more at ISU than UIUC his frosh year. I feel bad that a kid is stuck in the middle of meddling adults on this, but I think he's going to be just fine, and our fanbase at large will move on from this once we have other things to think about--like an NCAA berth and a brighter outlook for the future.
 
#233      

TheFameProtector

TheFameProtector
Champaign
TheFameProtector
To all those defending the actions of the staff as apart of the territory that comes with big boy recruiting - you are still missing the point. Regardless of the ethical issue, our staff played this really, really poorly. You don't hear about these things happening with big time programs because big time programs don't allow themselves to get into this mess, they make the reads earlier in the game and focus their priorities. We didn't, and it not only cost us a somewhat serious PR issue in the present but it also raises the question of whether this will effect recruiting down the road.

Yes, we've learned our staff can get us in the door with the big boys. But we've also learned that they don't know how to navigate the puzzle on the other side of that door.

Sure, winning will help repair some strained relationships. But BU's timeline for winning just shortened a lot.
 
#234      

miggytorres

miggytorres
miggytorres
Hot takes:
Good luck to THT, wish him well, he is doing his best in a tough situation.

Fans that are mad at the Illini have every right to be, the situation reflects poorly on the school and program.

Fans accepting of the process and happy that we got Ayo are ok, too, as dirty pool is all part of the system.
 
#235      

blmillini

B
Bloomington, IL
blmillini
Lots of strong opinions regarding a situation where I'm sure we do not have full information. I think it is wrong to judge in those circumstances and it is time to move on. Ayo committed first, there were issues beyond our control that made it questionable whether Ayo and THT could play together and THT moved on... we should too.
 
#236      

IlliniinIowa

I
IlliniinIowa
champaignchris said:
MIF had this card to play with this coaching staff once. Now they have to deliver players. If they don’t deliver players, the next time they make demands of the staff, they’ll be ignored.
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Why would MIF send any 5-star player to Illinois? All these people on here saying what Underwood did was right because we're finally playing "the game". MIF holds all the cards. When you deal with slime like them you think they can be trusted to deliver their top kids to the Illini? I highly doubt it.
 
#238      

Illiniguy13

Illiniguy13
Illiniguy13
PrudenceJuris said:
This isn't going to be forgotten in a week. It's going to haunt for the duration of his time here, and be the defining moment of his tenure.

We hire a $3 million coach who hires expensive assistants, and in this instance we got amateur hour.
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Ah yes, another "defining moment" of the Underwood era before he's coached a single game here :D
 
#239      

Peoria Illini

P
Peoria, IL
Peoria Illini
IlliniinIowa said:
Why would MIF send any 5-star player to Illinois? All these people on here saying what Underwood did was right because we're finally playing "the game". MIF holds all the cards. When you deal with slime like them you think they can be trusted to deliver their top kids to the Illini? I highly doubt it.
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Well, we weren't getting the top talent out of Simeon with our long relationship there, either.

You have to take that chance with MIF. You prove you can win, develop players and get them to their ultimate goal, the NBA, and they will come.

Meanwhile, Iowa St comes in, with no real relationship to Chicago, save for Daniyal Robinson, from the Quad Cities (and a couple of years coaching at Loyola), and plucks three guys this year. How?

Ames a better destination than Champaign? No
Closer for family to come watch? No
More playing time? Maybe

I have no problem with BU taking a chance with the best AAU program in Chicago right now. We'll have to see if it pans out. No guarantees in this game... it's fluid, remember?
 
#240      

I Bomb

I Bomb
Stylin' and Profilin'
I Bomb
This reminds me of the Dee conjecture. A lot of folks just running with no information. There are a couple posters here letting on to what the deal was, and it's just a 'move on' scenario, IMO
 
#241      

Hoppy2105

H
Little Rock, Arkansas
Hoppy2105
IlliniinIowa said:
Why would MIF send any 5-star player to Illinois? All these people on here saying what Underwood did was right because we're finally playing "the game". MIF holds all the cards. When you deal with slime like them you think they can be trusted to deliver their top kids to the Illini? I highly doubt it.
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Didn't we just get their top player?

(This assuming he doesn't de-commit before signing day)

TheFameProtector said:
To all those defending the actions of the staff as apart of the territory that comes with big boy recruiting - you are still missing the point. Regardless of the ethical issue, our staff played this really, really poorly. You don't hear about these things happening with big time programs because big time programs don't allow themselves to get into this mess, they make the reads earlier in the game and focus their priorities. We didn't, and it not only cost us a somewhat serious PR issue in the present but it also raises the question of whether this will effect recruiting down the road.

Yes, we've learned our staff can get us in the door with the big boys. But we've also learned that they don't know how to navigate the puzzle on the other side of that door.

Sure, winning will help repair some strained relationships. But BU's timeline for winning just shortened a lot.
Click to expand...

They navigated us right to a 5* program changing recruit. I'd say they hit their target.
 
#242      

Nathan

Nathan
Nathan
winthiscentury said:
My assumption is that this didn't go down as harshly as what people have conjured up in their heads. My guess is that he wanted THT to hold off on committing until there was time to figure this out(which should have been done before his OV). If he told him...hey, can we just hold off on commiting until we straighten this out, as we need to seriously have a sit-down or everyone will be in a bad spot.

Now, if BU did that and THT's parents said....that's unacceptable. This is all set up today, he's making his decision today, no more discussion....well, it's a bit of a different story. You have to make a decision right then. If BU simply said, we can't do this until all parties are on board and THT's family said no, no more time...then there's only one decision BU could make.
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This is the type of information we may not have that would drastically alter the perception of the program's involvement in this mess. There are plausible scenarios where Illinois is acting with integrity, yet we still get this undesired outcome. I'm not turning my back on this staff so quickly.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
#243      

LJ22

L
Chicago, IL
LJ22
IlliniinIowa said:
Why would MIF send any 5-star player to Illinois? All these people on here saying what Underwood did was right because we're finally playing "the game". MIF holds all the cards. When you deal with slime like them you think they can be trusted to deliver their top kids to the Illini? I highly doubt it.
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This with one million exclamation points.

If this drama is true, MIF literally just proved that they do not care one iota if Illinois wins. They place old disagreements over the betterment of the Illini basketball program.
 
#244      

IlliniinIowa

I
IlliniinIowa
Hoppy2105 said:
Didn't we just get their top player?

(This assuming he doesn't de-commit before signing day)



They navigated us right to a 5* program changing recruit. I'd say they hit their target.
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This is true. But the Ayo recruitment was different. No blue bloods were involved. Once UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, Duke get involved, my bet is MIF will turn their backs on the Illini like they always do....thus this move Underwood made yesterday will mean nothing.
 
#245      

BryceC

B
BryceC
First off I'm an ISU fan. I feel bad for both THT and the staff. I like Underwood.

It's easy to say that the staff failed to find out how big of a problem the rift was between Ayo and THT. I'm sure they tried. For all we know Irvin said it was no big deal then dropped the ultimatum on the staff the day of in an effort to embarrass the kid. Clearly this is an adult man who has no problem carrying a grudge against a teenager. We don't have enough information to make that call.

He was screwed either way. They either give in and burn bridges with MIF, or they burn bridges with Simeon. Probably doesn't help the CPL at large. I mean what do you do in that time with such short notice? Who knows. All I know is Underwood's job just got infinitely harder because he missed on not only a good player but ultimately pissed off some people.

As for the story, I think a national guy would be dying to write this, but I hope they don't, because it might embarrass Horton-Tucker. It's over and done now. The relevant parties know what happened. Just move on.

For the record we had a lot of Illinois fans show up on CycloneFanatic this week to talk about this recruitment, and even when it looked like he was going to Illinois everybody was absolutely awesome. Sports message boards can be just a trash heap but I really respect the good number of fans that showed up. Definitely rooting for Illinois and I wish you guys nothing but the best.

For the fans that are upset - don't let this taint your love of the team. The staff, and particularly the players on this team as it stands are the only ones that will be hurt by you tuning out.
 
#246      

Deleted member 236589

D
Guest
Deleted member 236589
Big Jack said:
It is really sad that this young man can not attend the university he so desperately wanted to attend. I don't know who is right or wrong in this situation but my years of life tell me that there are 2 or 3 stories here that come into play here. Maybe i missed the post in the recruiting thread over the past 6 months that said that THT loved the U of I and could not wait to verbal, oh yea that never happened.

We all know there was a problem between THT and Ayo's camps. Selfish issues arose during AAU which lead to THT leaving the team to find another team to showcase his talents, not uncommon but interesting none the less. Who caused this riff? Was it THT? We don't and probably will never know, but I do know that he made a commitment to MIF and then left for his own glory, looking at player rankings he knew when he agreed to join MIF that Ayo was the star and any kid who plays AAU ball knows that the team is there to promote the star not the team or other players. I know this because I have lived it in another sport with a child.

I am just saying suppose this was all a game being played by other parties, THT had to know that MIF would throw a fit after Ayo commitment if he tried to commit. So did his group play us? Did they con us into making MIF look bad and get some revenge? I have to wonder? I am sorry if this rubs people the wrong way, but I do not believe those tears were real. If MIF can play the game why couldn't THT?
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The point you made about him wanting to desperately be here is the key point. There's a sob story out there now that he couldn't go to his dream school. That's a bunch of BS. All of the talk was about Iowa State until his OV. At that point, who knows what happened. If Illinois was his dream school, then the OV should have been set up in September.
 
#247      

frozenrope9190

frozenrope9190
Aurora, IL
frozenrope9190
BryceC said:
First off I'm an ISU fan. I feel bad for both THT and the staff. I like Underwood.

It's easy to say that the staff failed to find out how big of a problem the rift was between Ayo and THT. I'm sure they tried. For all we know Irvin said it was no big deal then dropped the ultimatum on the staff the day of in an effort to embarrass the kid. Clearly this is an adult man who has no problem carrying a grudge against a teenager. We don't have enough information to make that call.

He was screwed either way. They either give in and burn bridges with MIF, or they burn bridges with Simeon. Probably doesn't help the CPL at large. I mean what do you do in that time with such short notice? Who knows. All I know is Underwood's job just got infinitely harder because he missed on not only a good player but ultimately pissed off some people.

As for the story, I think a national guy would be dying to write this, but I hope they don't, because it might embarrass Horton-Tucker. It's over and done now. The relevant parties know what happened. Just move on.

For the record we had a lot of Illinois fans show up on CycloneFanatic this week to talk about this recruitment, and even when it looked like he was going to Illinois everybody was absolutely awesome. Sports message boards can be just a trash heap but I really respect the good number of fans that showed up. Definitely rooting for Illinois and I wish you guys nothing but the best.

For the fans that are upset - don't let this taint your love of the team. The staff, and particularly the players on this team as it stands are the only ones that will be hurt by you tuning out.
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Thank you. Please stick around, I like the post, and I like Iowa State a whole bunch. My favorite Big 12 team by a mile.
 
#249      

Peoria Illini

P
Peoria, IL
Peoria Illini
winthiscentury said:
The point you made about him wanting to desperately be here is the key point. There's a sob story out there now that he couldn't go to his dream school. That's a bunch of BS. All of the talk was about Iowa State until his OV. At that point, who knows what happened. If Illinois was his dream school, then the OV should have been set up in September.
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And before that, the news was that he was leaning MSU, but that closed up on him as well.

He's got a good ride to Iowa State, has some friends playing there as well. Good school, good program and good support.

He'll be fine.
 
#250      

mattcoldagelli

mattcoldagelli
The Transfer Portal
mattcoldagelli
BryceC said:
First off I'm an ISU fan. I feel bad for both THT and the staff. I like Underwood.

It's easy to say that the staff failed to find out how big of a problem the rift was between Ayo and THT. I'm sure they tried. For all we know Irvin said it was no big deal then dropped the ultimatum on the staff the day of in an effort to embarrass the kid. Clearly this is an adult man who has no problem carrying a grudge against a teenager. We don't have enough information to make that call.

He was screwed either way. They either give in and burn bridges with MIF, or they burn bridges with Simeon. Probably doesn't help the CPL at large. I mean what do you do in that time with such short notice? Who knows. All I know is Underwood's job just got infinitely harder because he missed on not only a good player but ultimately pissed off some people.

As for the story, I think a national guy would be dying to write this, but I hope they don't, because it might embarrass Horton-Tucker. It's over and done now. The relevant parties know what happened. Just move on.

For the record we had a lot of Illinois fans show up on CycloneFanatic this week to talk about this recruitment, and even when it looked like he was going to Illinois everybody was absolutely awesome. Sports message boards can be just a trash heap but I really respect the good number of fans that showed up. Definitely rooting for Illinois and I wish you guys nothing but the best.

For the fans that are upset - don't let this taint your love of the team. The staff, and particularly the players on this team as it stands are the only ones that will be hurt by you tuning out.
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Hello and welcome, land grant brother. Pull up a chair. Beat Iowa.