Totally agree. I don't understand the fascination with hiring a UI alum. To me it's way down on the checklist. The most successful athletic program in the Big Ten is Ohio State, and their AD is a former Notre Dame football player who had demonstrated success as AD at Iowa St and Arizona St.
The Illinois AD Search
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Totally agree. I don't understand the fascination with hiring a UI alum. To me it's way down on the checklist. The most successful athletic program in the Big Ten is Ohio State, and their AD is a former Notre Dame football player who had demonstrated success as AD at Iowa St and Arizona St.
Part of the problem is here - would any other sitting AD at power 5 school want to come to Illinois given the circumstances? Outside looking in Illinois is a complete mess. The appeal of an alum is he or she might care enough to look past the 'less than ideal' circumstances to turn this thing around (and stick around to see it all the way through)
It will be interesting if they pick Whitman. For the first time ever on this site I could enjoy my 15 minutes of insider status. Well, not really, but I did know Whitman at law school. We were in the same class and section. We weren't close but we had many of the same friends. Looking back, there are two things that stand out to me about him during that period (this was 2005-08).
First, when we arrived for orientation in August, the law school administration was falling all over themselves with glee that a former Illini football standout and NFL veteran was a member of our class. I think most of us assumed that our "superstar" classmate had probably been accepted based on name recognition and that he would not have the same academic qualifications as the rest of us. Um, no, not at all. Within the first few weeks it was obvious he was going straight to the top of the class. He was in that small, elite group of students who seemed to operate on a separate plane, deftly analyzing legal issues with speed and dexterity that mid-pack guys like me could never manage. If anything, it was Whitman who compromised his standards by enrolling at his alma mater, as he clearly had the intellectual chops to make the cut at any law school in the country -- Harvard, Stanford, you name it. It was genius level stuff, very impressive.
Second, I think most of us assumed before we met him that a fellow like that would be afflicted with the old Big-Man-On-Campus syndrome, but again, that assumption was 180 degrees off. He was super friendly, unassuming, and engaging with people one on one. I remember a conversation with him before class one day early on that first year. He was not the big-headed type who liked to talk himself up; rather, he asked me a lot of questions about my background and came off as genuinely interested, which was no small feat because I knew my background was not even remotely interesting. The worst you could say was that there was a little politician in that gregariousness -- law school is hypercompetitive and not always the most social place in the world -- but he was never annoying or attention-seeking to my recollection. He just seemed like a guy who was aware of his high profile in that circle but wanted his peers to view him as a regular Joe.
As for the AD job, right now he doesn't have much of a track record. There is a world of difference between the Power 5 and the University Athletic Association. When your strongest competitor is the University of Chicago and you play your home football games in a stadium that seats 3,000 people, you're dealing with an entirely different set of pressures. I think it's a bit of a stretch to bring in someone with that limited experience level. Still, from what I observed, he certainly seemed like a guy with the skillset to be successful no matter what you throw at him. You just can't completely discount a guy with his intelligence and the charisma to win people over.
First, when we arrived for orientation in August, the law school administration was falling all over themselves with glee that a former Illini football standout and NFL veteran was a member of our class. I think most of us assumed that our "superstar" classmate had probably been accepted based on name recognition and that he would not have the same academic qualifications as the rest of us. Um, no, not at all. Within the first few weeks it was obvious he was going straight to the top of the class. He was in that small, elite group of students who seemed to operate on a separate plane, deftly analyzing legal issues with speed and dexterity that mid-pack guys like me could never manage. If anything, it was Whitman who compromised his standards by enrolling at his alma mater, as he clearly had the intellectual chops to make the cut at any law school in the country -- Harvard, Stanford, you name it. It was genius level stuff, very impressive.
Second, I think most of us assumed before we met him that a fellow like that would be afflicted with the old Big-Man-On-Campus syndrome, but again, that assumption was 180 degrees off. He was super friendly, unassuming, and engaging with people one on one. I remember a conversation with him before class one day early on that first year. He was not the big-headed type who liked to talk himself up; rather, he asked me a lot of questions about my background and came off as genuinely interested, which was no small feat because I knew my background was not even remotely interesting. The worst you could say was that there was a little politician in that gregariousness -- law school is hypercompetitive and not always the most social place in the world -- but he was never annoying or attention-seeking to my recollection. He just seemed like a guy who was aware of his high profile in that circle but wanted his peers to view him as a regular Joe.
As for the AD job, right now he doesn't have much of a track record. There is a world of difference between the Power 5 and the University Athletic Association. When your strongest competitor is the University of Chicago and you play your home football games in a stadium that seats 3,000 people, you're dealing with an entirely different set of pressures. I think it's a bit of a stretch to bring in someone with that limited experience level. Still, from what I observed, he certainly seemed like a guy with the skillset to be successful no matter what you throw at him. You just can't completely discount a guy with his intelligence and the charisma to win people over.
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What's your list look like, with the fubar we have going on it will be short
Completely agree with this statement. And let us not forget that Mike Thomas had a pretty decent amount of experience at a bigger school and look how that turned out. Sometimes giving a guy with intelligence, passion and communication skills a chance is the right way to go.
IMHO, that's the kind of guy you take a chance on if the high-profile, proven winner won't come.
FeelYourPaign
- So Cal
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
I second the thanks. As far as the "politician" that he mentioned. One would be crazy to think that is anything but a positive attribute for this job.
Deleted member 569417
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Well, to humor you both of us, were I in charge, my goals would be to identify a person that has the following qualities, in priority order:
I would want someone that has brought a big school with a garbage athletic program to consistent athletic success. That is my first priority, as Illinois is arguably the worst P5 athletic program today. There are some people that fit within this category, the two standouts for me are Ian McCaw at Baylor and Chris Del Conte at TCU. McCaw makes $635K. Del Conte makes $700K. Offer them $1.2M
If I couldn't get one of guys like that, I would set my sights on guys that are currently leading and maintaining what were good to great programs and they have improved even more so. There are many people that fit within this category, some examples are Rob Mullens at Oregon ($700K), Scott Strickin at Miss State ($450K), Ross Bjork at Ole Miss ($650K), Chris Hill at Utah ($780K). Offer them $1-1.2M
If I couldn't get a sitting AD, I would then set my sights on the top guys/right hand men at big time programs such as Bama, Florida, Oregon, Utah, Etc.
Now, I guess you don't actually care about my list, and you simply want to respond with "why would those guys come to this mess?" And, the answer is money. Lots of money. Many people here thought/still think we're getting Rick George. George has a base of $700K, which is similar to many of the specific names I listed above. He also can get as high as $1.3M with incentives . If you think George is coming here with some hometown discount, you are not thinking critically about this. George would cost easily ~$1-1.3M a year. And if you really think George is coming here for that, why wouldn't McCaw take a raise to come here? Or Mullens? Or Bjork? Or Hill.
Money talks, and the only way to get anyone with a proven track record at a big P5 school that values athletics here is money. That means George, that means Tiley, that means Chris Del Conte.
But, again, that is all were I in charge. And the big difference between me and the University of Illinois admin and its local donors, is that my only priority is producing a quality, successful Athletic Program that is in the top tier of the Big Ten.
And, to be clear. Of the choices I think Illinois is actually considering, Whitman is easily the best choice. I simply wish Illinois would try to start clean with someone that has experience doing what needs to be done at Illinois. Not looking at anyone that didn't graduate from here is handcuffing yourself, to put it nicely.
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Illwinsagain
- Cary, IL
You obviously have put more thought into this than I have. I appreciate your reasoning and research. Honest question, if you could put together a list like this in whatever time it took for you to do so, as a hobby. I wonder what those whose job it is to get this done have come up with?
Absolutely. When what you've been doing hasn't worked for 20+ years, why would you keep going to the same well? It'd be like insisting all our football coaches come from the Lou Tepper coaching tree.
Good post. I think Whitman is considered a rising star in the business and the administration is afraid he may be another "Jim Phillips" - an Illinois alum doing great things at another Big Ten institution.
I would have no problem with this hire. After Thomas was canned, Herb Gould had an interesting article summarizing the chances of the usual suspects (George, Tiley, Michael, etc) and felt the top two were long shots and that Illinois should be thinking outside of the box. His example was hiring Lubin and Whitman with the idea that Whitman would be the heir apparent.
This is another problem Illinois has long had; they absolutely refuse to think outside the box and lead from the front by paying big money for anything.
I remember the year before Self left for Kansas there was a rumor that Tubby Smith was about to get fired and Kentucky would be coming after Self. I said then, "Give him two million bucks, make him the highest paid coach in the country." Because if you let a school poach your coach you're admitting they're a better program than you are. Now maybe no amount of money would have kept Self in town, I don't know. But in retrospect, looking at the slow but steady decline of basketball since he left, is there any amount of money that would have been too much to keep him around? If you could go back in time, would even $5 million a year be too much to avoid the absolute catastrophe that has befallen basketball?
Jiro, great response, you are correct money talks. The question is how much is it going to take to wade thru the mess. A experienced choice would be great, I'm afraid the cheapskates aren't going to pony up. So Whitman is probably the best choice. You need to be on the search team thanks for you response, I'm sure many agree with you
Deleted member 569417
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You are correct, and to be blunt about things, this is what we are likely staring at.
- Our head football coach is 14th out of 14 Big Ten schools in terms of pay.
- Our head basketball coach is 9th out of 14 Big Ten school in terms of pay.
- If we end up with Whitman, like it appears, can you envision him getting more than $400K? I can't. I'd imagine he gets his salary doubled up to ~$300K, maybe as high as $350K. Which would make our AD 14th out of 14 Big Ten schools in terms of pay.
To be really clear, I am not arguing that Cubit or Groce or Whitman deserve more money, I am arguing that those positions need to paid more money.
And, really fans like me are the real idiots here. Why in the world would I expect great, or hell even average, results when our University budgets the least amount of money in the Big Ten for our football coach? Or AD. Or the bottom tier in basketball. Groce is the 9th highest paid coach in the Big Ten and guess what results we have seen the last 4 years? About 9th place. What kind of wizardry is this?!?
I'm dying for someone at the University of Illinois to walk in and say "We are done trying to save money and hope we find a home run hire. We want to be one of the top 3 basketball programs in the Big Ten. MSU and OSU pay their head coaches >$3.5M. If we want to be one of the top 3 basketball programs, we will scour the earth to find and hire a coach worthy of that pay and has proven success. If we have to overpay to get that person, so be it."
And the worst part of this? By trying to go cheap and save money, we end up losing more money in the long run. Payouts for fired coaches. Attendance dwindling as the programs continue to suck. Apathy. That's why I don't feel at all embarrassed about suggesting Illinois pay Ian McCaw >$1M. Honestly, I'd go as far as $2M if needed. Why? Because in 4 years after he fixes the football program and we are making bowl games and the attendance goes from 20K a game to 60K a game, and the money from the donors is rolling in because OMG we're winning at football... NO ONE would look at Ian McCaw's $2M as excessive when we make 20x that more a year because the programs are winning.
If we want to actually change things here we need gamechangers. Gamechangers are expensive. Can you get lucky and find a gamechanger on the cheap from Division III? I guess it's possible, sure. Is it likely? It is not.
But, again, this is what we'll likely we're looking at.
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Deleted member 569417
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The search firm could have pulled together >25 names to pick from to at least have conversations with. Easily. Probably many more.
But, the search firm does what the client asks. And if the client says "we need you to vet and explore the realistic options with ex Illini, here's the top 4 we are thinking about, please start there and let us know if there are other Ex Illini to be thinking about.", they do what they are paid to do.
Illwinsagain
- Cary, IL
Thank you for the response, I was not only referring to the search firm, but also the committee. We'll see. If Whitman can raise the money, it appears he would be smart enough to figure out who to hire as head coach. Connections, would be an issue.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
If Whitman gets the job, he could hire Lubin to handle the big money donors and fundraising. Would take a lot off Whitman's plate.
Not sure about P5 but a successful Group of 5 AD like Bowen (currently making around $415K) or Frazier ($320K) would likely be interested in a P5 job that pays roughly $600 K.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
Jiro? More like HERO, amirite guys?
Seriously, though, great work in this thread.
Seriously, though, great work in this thread.
:thumb: Great post.
Also:
frankfortillini
- Frankfort, IL
Someone got paid a lot to build those slides. I bet that was a nightmare to get approved - I can't imagine the meetings and review process - lol!!
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