The Illinois Coaching Search

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#1,001      

RedRocksIllini

RedRocksIllini
Morrison, CO
RedRocksIllini
Second and Chalmers said:
To be fair, USF had actually agreed to hire him. And Masiello thinking he'd graduated from Kentucky when he hadn't seemed like a good faith mistake, if a pretty embarrassing one.

He was a nice candidate at the time. It has gone sharply downhill since.
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Gotta seriously question his judgement. If I'm picking a school to fake-graduate from, I would aim a lot higher than Kentucky.
 
#1,002      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
badbatch said:
He needs a change of scenery. Wherever that may be, who knows, but I am not writing off his ability to coach and recruit until he crashes and burns at his next spot.
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I'm not either.

Nor would any rational person have any interest in investing in him as the future of Illinois Basketball.

He's probably one of the 100 best candidates. But not the top 50, and the list won't be any longer than like 10.
 
#1,003      

Epsilon

Epsilon
M tipping over
Pdx
Epsilon
I'm surprised there haven't been more comments on the short leash for accepting applications. 1 week. That suggests to me that the desired applicant is already known / identified / on board. Not saying an announcement is imminent (or what it means as to whom) but to me that is telling in and of itself, in terms of the efficiency of the process JW is going through, and potentially for our ability to nail a tier 1 candidate. You really only put a short leash on an opening when you want to limit the applications. Corporations do this all the time. You meet whatever requirements there are for posting (whether they be the law or corporate policy), and you customize the posting to your desired candidate (usually someone identified internally - and no I'm not suggesting it is someone already on staff, for those that will take too literal an interpretation of my post).
 
#1,004      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
badbatch said:
I would like to have him as a coach or at least have JW kick the tires, but I don't think he is leaving Manhattan regardless.
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Second and Chalmers said:
He was a nice candidate at the time. It has gone sharply downhill since.
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badbatch said:
He needs a change of scenery.
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#1,005      

basementcheetos

B
basementcheetos
Tay and J having a really good discussion of coaching candidates. They firmly believe the two numbers thrown out by Whitman in the presser were not accidents. Believe that Whitman is going to first shoot high for candidates in the 4.5 million range, then he also has second list of 2.5 million dollar candidates. They took a shot at the lists.

4.5 million dollar candidates
Gregg Marshall-they admitted is probably would cost more like 5 million
Archie Miller
Buzz Williams

2.5 million dollar candidates
Cuonzo Martin
Chris Holtman
Kevin Keatts
Will Wade
Bobby Hurley

I agree that Whitman probably did not flippantly throw out those 2 different numbers and this seems like a reasonable set up. I would be very happy with any of the top candidates. Of the bottom set really like Wade and Holtman. Problem with Holtman though as he and Groce are really good friends and played together at Taylor.
 
#1,006      

RedRocksIllini

RedRocksIllini
Morrison, CO
RedRocksIllini
Epsilon said:
I'm surprised there haven't been more comments on the short leash for accepting applications. 1 week. That suggests to me that the desired applicant is already known / identified / on board. Not saying an announcement is imminent (or what it means as to whom) but to me that is telling in and of itself, in terms of the efficiency of the process JW is going through, and potentially for our ability to nail a tier 1 candidate. You really only put a short leash on an opening when you want to limit the applications. Corporations do this all the time. You meet whatever requirements there are for posting (whether they be the law or corporate policy), and you customize the posting to your desired candidate (usually someone identified internally - and no I'm not suggesting it is someone already on staff, for those that will take too literal an interpretation of my post).
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Interesting. Hopefully we can avoid the public humiliation that Mike Thomas put the program through during the last hire.
 
#1,007      

whovous

W
Washington, DC
whovous
Epsilon said:
I'm surprised there haven't been more comments on the short leash for accepting applications. 1 week. That suggests to me that the desired applicant is already known / identified / on board. Not saying an announcement is imminent (or what it means as to whom) but to me that is telling in and of itself, in terms of the efficiency of the process JW is going through, and potentially for our ability to nail a tier 1 candidate. You really only put a short leash on an opening when you want to limit the applications. Corporations do this all the time. You meet whatever requirements there are for posting (whether they be the law or corporate policy), and you customize the posting to your desired candidate (usually someone identified internally - and no I'm not suggesting it is someone already on staff, for those that will take too literal an interpretation of my post).
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Where was this short leash for accepting applications announced? I haven't read all the posts in this thread.
 
#1,010      

Roundball Shaman

R
Roundball Shaman
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Put me in the camp that thinks Self literally only leaves for KU, which was his dream job.
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I have no rational reason for stating the following. But the Shaman in me has always felt that Self deep-down feels bad for stepping out on the Illini. There is a Karmic Debt here that will either be paid now or later. He can settle it now by coming back to Champaign. Or it will be settled later when the New Illini Coach triumphs over the Jayhawks in the 2019 Finals.
 
#1,011      

Deleted member 236589

D
Guest
Deleted member 236589
FatGreg said:
I think there are two very different and equally fair ways to view the job:

Version 1: Illinois is a top-15 all-time program in one of the most talent-rich states in the country. We have been nationally relevant for long stretches in the past (our all-time peer programs are along the lines of Arizona, Syracuse, Michigan State, Maryland, Villanova, Georgetown - the current situation is anomalous). We recruit the St Louis area as well as anyone and have strong regional connections to Ohio, Indiana, and Wisconsin. Chicago is a top-5 media market and St Louis is big enough to generate plenty of visibility. We are a major research university with abundant resources, top-notch athletic facilities, and a vast network of powerful alumni. This is a job where the right coach can become a legend. We were on the cusp of elite status from 1980 to 2007 - constantly on ESPN, perpetually sold out arenas, pulling in top-50 recruits regularly. So there's a precedent.

Version 2: Illinois is a difficult job. Fans have outlandish expectations due to the Henson-Kruger-Self stretch and won't settle for even brief stretches of mediocrity. The brand has eroded to the point where schools like Northwestern, Minnesota, Texas Tech, and Colorado are seen as more reasonable program peers by national observers. The state itself is a financial and administrative disaster, the university is in the rural Midwest (the picture of cultural desolation according to many), the Big Ten is an annual bloodbath with strategically brilliant coaches and brutally physical play, Chicago recruiting is at best difficult to break into and at worst rife with corruption. Maybe 10-15 years ago the Illini brand had enough sex appeal to overcome the cornfields and bitter winters, but not now. While the program's past success represents a sort of proof-of-concept, the expectations now are a millstone.

I don't think that either viewpoint is wrong, per se. I think it's complicated and ultimately a matter of perspective. We all tend toward the former view, while most people around the country likely lean toward the latter (or somewhere in the middle). The right coach will embrace the glass-half-full version and relish the challenge.
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Version 2 is probably more in line with reality. Just like after Bruce got fired, people were throwing candidates out there that just weren't going to happen. It was Stevens, Smart, etc...and Groce was the guy.

Now, the list's people are throwing out....Miller, Marshall, Williams, etc...Not going to happen(IMO)

We are not a destination coaching position. We are on that third tier:

1)Blue Bloods/Top Tier(Kentucky, Kansas, UNC, Duke, etc...)
2)Second Tier(Michigan State, Florida, Louisville, Arizona, etc...)
3)Third Tier(Illinois, Minnesota, Iowa State, Missouri, Arkansas, etc...)

We're not a school that's going to make an NBA coach jump at a "huge opportunity" or make a coach at any of the schools in the top 2 tiers move. Maybe if you throw enough money at one of the coaches at the same level of program where they've been stagnant for a few years, you could get them to move.....but outside of money, why move? We've gone through two coaches in 10 years and have a fan base that believes we are a destination program.

That leaves going after a coach at a tier 4(mid majors) school, looking for a promotion (Self, Weber and Groce) or going after a coach that was recently fired and looking to land somewhere.

Reality being what it is, we are not a job that is causing Dayton or Wichita State recruits to lose sleep. UNC-Wilmington might be a little more concerned.
 
#1,012      

illynifan34

I
That's a winner!!
OH
illynifan34
basementcheetos said:
Tay and J having a really good discussion of coaching candidates. They firmly believe the two numbers thrown out by Whitman in the presser were not accidents. Believe that Whitman is going to first shoot high for candidates in the 4.5 million range, then he also has second list of 2.5 million dollar candidates. They took a shot at the lists.

4.5 million dollar candidates
Gregg Marshall-they admitted is probably would cost more like 5 million
Archie Miller
Buzz Williams

2.5 million dollar candidates
Cuonzo Martin
Chris Holtman
Kevin Keatts
Will Wade
Bobby Hurley

I agree that Whitman probably did not flippantly throw out those 2 different numbers and this seems like a reasonable set up. I would be very happy with any of the top candidates. Of the bottom set really like Wade and Holtman. Problem with Holtman though as he and Groce are really good friends and played together at Taylor.
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Key thing to me was Werner said Marshall will probably listen at least.
 
#1,013      

RichardKeenesHair

R
RichardKeenesHair
We didn't get a good coach because at that time we weren't willing to pay top dollar for a good coach. Smart was never coming here and Thomas seemed to have no Plan B or the resources to make a quality Plan B happen

winthiscentury said:
Version 2 is probably more in line with reality. Just like after Bruce got fired, people were throwing candidates out there that just weren't going to happen. It was Stevens, Smart, etc...and Groce was the guy.

Now, the list's people are throwing out....Miller, Marshall, Williams, etc...Not going to happen(IMO)

We are not a destination coaching position. We are on that third tier:

1)Blue Bloods/Top Tier(Kentucky, Kansas, UNC, Duke, etc...)
2)Second Tier(Michigan State, Florida, Louisville, Arizona, etc...)
3)Third Tier(Illinois, Minnesota, Iowa State, Missouri, Arkansas, etc...)

We're not a school that's going to make an NBA coach jump at a "huge opportunity" or make a coach at any of the schools in the top 2 tiers move. Maybe if you throw enough money at one of the coaches at the same level of program where they've been stagnant for a few years, you could get them to move.....but outside of money, why move? We've gone through two coaches in 10 years and have a fan base that believes we are a destination program.

That leaves going after a coach at a tier 4(mid majors) school, looking for a promotion (Self, Weber and Groce) or going after a coach that was recently fired and looking to land somewhere.

Reality being what it is, we are not a job that is causing Dayton or Wichita State recruits to lose sleep. UNC-Wilmington might be a little more concerned.
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#1,014      

Illwinsagain

Illwinsagain
Cary, IL
Illwinsagain
A name from the Tay and Jay show not previously mentioned (unless I just missed it), Bobby Hurley. They made a decent argument for his consideration. Carry on...
 
#1,018      

Deleted member 236589

D
Guest
Deleted member 236589
Roundball Shaman said:
I have no rational reason for stating the following. But the Shaman in me has always felt that Self deep-down feels bad for stepping out on the Illini. There is a Karmic Debt here that will either be paid now or later. He can settle it now by coming back to Champaign. Or it will be settled later when the New Illini Coach triumphs over the Jayhawks in the 2019 Finals.
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He felt bad until he cashed his first paycheck, signed one of his however many lottery picks, won his first of however many conference championships in a row, en route to a National Championship and continued #1 seeds in the NCAA's.

He probably felt that Weber got the glory for his work in 2004-2005 and felt a little bad about that, but outside of that, he couldn't believe his could fortune when that job came up. Now, he's a Hall of Famer.
 
#1,019      

ShellbackMB

S
ShellbackMB
I tend to agree with you. Whitman will act swiftly, boldly and judiciously. The money is there, and the administration and facilities are way better than 5 years ago. I think the "floor" is Keatts or Martin and the process will be over within 10 days.

basementcheetos said:
Tay and J having a really good discussion of coaching candidates. They firmly believe the two numbers thrown out by Whitman in the presser were not accidents. Believe that Whitman is going to first shoot high for candidates in the 4.5 million range, then he also has second list of 2.5 million dollar candidates. They took a shot at the lists.

4.5 million dollar candidates
Gregg Marshall-they admitted is probably would cost more like 5 million
Archie Miller
Buzz Williams

2.5 million dollar candidates
Cuonzo Martin
Chris Holtman
Kevin Keatts
Will Wade
Bobby Hurley

I agree that Whitman probably did not flippantly throw out those 2 different numbers and this seems like a reasonable set up. I would be very happy with any of the top candidates. Of the bottom set really like Wade and Holtman. Problem with Holtman though as he and Groce are really good friends and played together at Taylor.
Click to expand...
 
#1,020      

ILNative

I
ILNative
RichardKeenesHair said:
"The reason for Keatts’ success is simple, Pitino said.

“He’s got the total package,” Pitino said. “He doesn’t have a weakness as a coach. He’s an outstanding recruiter, that was a big factor in us winning the championship.

“He knows how to scout and prepare. He also communicates with the players well. He has a great rapport with his players. He’s not soft on them but the players love him.”"

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/college/article136192413.html#storylink=cpy
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"total package" BINGO. There are NO blemishes on his scorecard which is why he will ultimately be a popular hire.
 
#1,021      

basementcheetos

B
basementcheetos
ShellbackMB said:
I tend to agree with you. Whitman will act swiftly, boldly and judiciously. The money is there, and the administration and facilities are way better than 5 years ago. I think the "floor" is Keatts or Martin and the process will be over within 10 days.
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If the floor is those 2, Wade needs to be considered. His resume imo is better than Keatts, and he can really recruit-has a top 25 class coming in next year including Mayan Kiir. Brought in a top 50 guy last year. Great record as well (50 -19) in a better conference than Keatts, and really young at 34.
 
#1,023      

PlayAZ

P
PlayAZ
basementcheetos said:
Tay and J having a really good discussion of coaching candidates. They firmly believe the two numbers thrown out by Whitman in the presser were not accidents. Believe that Whitman is going to first shoot high for candidates in the 4.5 million range, then he also has second list of 2.5 million dollar candidates. They took a shot at the lists.

4.5 million dollar candidates
Gregg Marshall-they admitted is probably would cost more like 5 million
Archie Miller
Buzz Williams

2.5 million dollar candidates
Cuonzo Martin
Chris Holtman
Kevin Keatts
Will Wade
Bobby Hurley

I agree that Whitman probably did not flippantly throw out those 2 different numbers and this seems like a reasonable set up. I would be very happy with any of the top candidates. Of the bottom set really like Wade and Holtman. Problem with Holtman though as he and Groce are really good friends and played together at Taylor.
Click to expand...

Okay with the group persay, except I think there needs to be a middle ground somewhere for Buzz Williams. I would not put him $$$ in same upper echelon as the first two, I might even had him and C Martin together in say a 3.25-3.5 range I think.

Will Wade would be with Keatts, Holtman, McCall (my add) and Hurley imo
 
#1,024      

TownieMatt

T
CU Expat
Chicago
TownieMatt
FWIW, here is who I would go after if I was Whitman:

1. Archie Miller - Make him say no to $4m/year
2. Gregg Marshall - Gloves are off now, make him say no to $4.5m/year
3. Cuonzo Martin - Not my favorite hire, but still a good one. Probably getable around $2.5m/year
4. Kevin Keatts - Ok, the more established guys have passed. Hire the hot mid-major guy with good credentials.
 
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