The two are very similar. I'd say Maryland just because it's in better shape, but if Maryland became available, it would probably mean it wasn't in so good of shape.
The Illinois Coaching Search
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The two are very similar. I'd say Maryland just because it's in better shape, but if Maryland became available, it would probably mean it wasn't in so good of shape.
I was in a group project with Joseph Bertrand and Meyers Leonard. A couple of their tutors from Irwin "shadowed" our project and I'll I can say is they were extremely accommodating :thumb:
What you describe is very different than doing work for students. My guess is that "editing" is what S&C will list as "gray". It's not. Re-writing is wrong. Editing and explaining the reason for the changes and helping the student to extend your changes to other areas of the paper has clear educational benefit.
These students need tutors and extra time. That is not an integrity issue. Students get extra time for all kinds of reasons. And tutors are available to certain groups of students for a variety of reasons also. So are writing coaches. Athletes should have these, and should take advantage of these.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
I would say certain things have long-term value on their face and others do not. For instance - I had to take a geology class that could not have been less meaningful to me at the time, and, shockingly, remains so. I completed it, and I suppose there's some blue-sky message in that about getting outside your comfort zone and seeing things through, but I also wasn't a D1 athlete. That's a silly pile-on to an already almost impossible schedule for these guys.
When you say "there are plenty of easy courses to take" to maintain eligibility, aren't you kind of acknowledging the ridiculousness of this?
I should add to my points. I do realize that breaking of academic rules does happen. I am simply stating that I am personally not OK with it happening. And to me it is not a gray issue. It's black and white and it's among the most critical black and white issue at Universities today that extends beyond the student athlete population.
But as a last point, the athletes I've had from non-revenue sports are the absolute best students. They capitalize on their scholarship, manage their time, and achieve at the highest level. I think that it's important to distinguish between them and the revenue athletes.
The "grey area" I was speaking of would only be on the front-end of the recruitment. So hypothetically, a player we will call Rerrick Dose's, brother and uncle say they will have him come here if we paid them all $90K, would you be ok doing that? I ask because those big recruitments we all get so frustrated with losing, need this to compete more often than not. So would you be ok paying someone to get them to come here?
I worked for UI in an academic capacity and did work in collaboration with the AD in exactly this area. There are academic services provided to student-athletes. Having those services and tutors does not equate to receiving impermissible help. You will always have some overzealous tutors that often are enamored by their association with the student athletes, but part of the training/monitoring is exactly on avoiding that.
Saying that most of the athletes or players we loved had received impermissible benefits or help is a gross generalization that is not based on reality.
You say that you've seen it with your own eyes. You have seen and monitored most of the student athletes (at least over a long period)?
And it's not all revenue athletes, I should note. I was friends with a girl who dated Ryan McDonald for awhile, and that guy was extremely bright and extremely driven academically, and lets be honest, the Irwin strumpets wouldn't have been able to do his engineering homework for him if they tried :thumb:
Damn good football player too. But you're not going to fill a roster with 85 guys like that. To have that much physical talent and that much intellectual talent is just an incredibly rare bird.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
Totally.
Yes, I acknowledge some ridiculousness, but that's because I think these kids should be able to compete professionally if they'd like. But being forced to take a sociology, philosophy, or geology course that may not benefit your career is very different than never being forced to complete an assignment for yourself. We all recognize that we are discussing a subpopulation of the athletes who lack innate academic ability. There is extreme value to teaching these students how to learn in whatever course context that it. Even if it's a course that I would have ditched for the entire semester and showed up only for exams, they can use that course as an opportunity to learn how to learn. It probably is not so trivial for them, but is rather at the proper level for them to take.
Additionally, I have no sympathy for the "almost impossible schedule" argument. It's nonsense. The non-revenue sports athletes have it far worse. And the ones that I have interacted with are among the best students. They practice just as much as the football/basketball players, travel on busses not planes, live with the general student population, etc., etc. And they do everything that is expected of them.
On this we agree. We're discussing a relatively small number of students here. Which to me, is all the more reason to put in place the resources and effort to help them learn.
I'm all for gray area operation that can maintain plausible deniability and avoids Louisville/Minnesota/Baylor type situations. 29 years old for the generational survey.
I don't claim to be Mr. Insider, but from what I've heard our problem isn't our willingness to wade into that game, but our ability to marshal a booster network that can launder enough money to compete in blue blood type free for alls.
But that isn't every kid, not even elite kids, not even in Chicago. It depends. But you have to know the game that you're playing. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
Capel is a BIG NO for me, Jankovich will not be a splash enough, Keatts could very well be the get em while they are hot....difference this time is that MANY are stating HE is P-5 guy in waiting...no one really stated that about our last 2 guys iirc.
My new updated picks...
Miller - After he loses to Marshall first round
Keatts - After 2nd round loss
Martin - Whenever.....
Whitman WILL announce next week, as he wants to capitalize on ILLINOIS being mentioned numerous times during tournament run....free PR and ALL recruits will be watching obviously...
Still going with Miller Time March 23rd 10:00 press conference?
Trakis
- Chicago, IL
Capel is a BIG NO for me, Jankovich will not be a splash enough, Keatts could very well be the get em while they are hot....difference this time is that MANY are stating HE is P-5 guy in waiting...no one really stated that about our last 2 guys iirc.
My new updated picks...
Miller - After he loses to Marshall first round
Keatts - After 2nd round loss
Martin - Whenever.....
Whitman WILL announce next week, as he wants to capitalize on ILLINOIS being mentioned numerous times during tournament run....free PR and ALL recruits will be watching obviously...
Still going with Miller Time March 23rd 10:00 press conference?
I like this list, and I also agree that he'll announce pretty quick.
Illinimedic
- Rochester, Illinois
My biggest question regarding Cuonzo Martin is not as much his perceived (whether true or not) X&O's weakness or his ability to recruit Chicago...the bigger question for me is Illinois a stop he truly covets and does he plan to stick around for more than 3 years? I actually tend to believe he is a solid coach and above average recruiter but the sample size on him at each stop is so limited. We have seen him do pretty well in short stents but what is a 5-10-15 year Cuonzo program's real trajectory?
Thoughts? I ask because he is a candidate that provides me with some legitimate intrigue.
Thoughts? I ask because he is a candidate that provides me with some legitimate intrigue.
Illwinsagain
- Cary, IL
I admit to being naive on this subject. I would prefer to turn a blind eye to the situation. Realistically, I believe that all top programs likely dabble in the grey. I would prefer to stay on the lighter shade, and do not want to approach the black. Yes, I am old.
This is a bad and self-defeating metric to use, but, as it pertains to Cuonzo Martin, based on what I have heard, the answer to this is an emphatic yes.
When my son inevitably is a 5-star PG recruit, and some boosters are offering $150k for him to go to Indiana, I'm going to teach him how to take that offer to Illinois, ask them for more, then go to the highest bidder out of schools that he would seriously be excited about (and had coaches that I trusted to take good care of my kid).
That's exactly the same process I followed the last time I was on the job market. Learning how to negotiate and leverage an offer is a valuable life skill.
Now, if I got wind that someone wanted to take him to a strip club on his campus visit...well, that's a different story.
That's exactly the same process I followed the last time I was on the job market. Learning how to negotiate and leverage an offer is a valuable life skill.
Now, if I got wind that someone wanted to take him to a strip club on his campus visit...well, that's a different story.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
I think his last two stops were crappy basketball jobs.
Totally agree here. As far as I could tell, the instances I'm referring to technically didn't breach any violations... but....
I also don't want to categorize most UI student athletes as receiving impermissible help. Definitely not a fair statement there.However, let's not be oblivious -- "impermissible" assistance happens. It happens a lot.
He wants Illinois bad, which is going to make the Braggin' Rights game so interesting over the next several years when he's at Mizzou and pissed at us
If recruits catch wind of the Silver Bullet, we'll never get a decent player again :faint:
illynifan34
That's a winner!!
- OH
Good mention. Ryan was awesome all around. I can say with 100% confidence Ryan did all his own work.
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