The Illinois Coaching Search

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#1,326      

ATL Chief

A
Jacksonville
ATL Chief
FatGreg said:
I'm all for operating in the gray. Like others have said, I don't equate following NCAA rules with personal integrity. Do whatever it takes to get top talent and win ball games, as long as you're actively concerned with the wellbeing of recruits, players, fans, the university community, and so on. Take strategic risks as long as you can reasonably project that you won't get caught and will have plausible deniability no matter what accusations emerge.
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I agree completely. I always roll my eyes when I hear things about integrity in college sports. Can we please stop pretending? It's a dirty business. That's why we have Bitcoin.

Hopefully Monty is getting a virtual truckload of Bitcoin thrown at him. I'm 30 with apparently no integrity
 
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#1,327      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
ATL Chief said:
I agree completely. I always roll my eyes when I hear things about integrity in college sports. Can we please stop pretending? It's a dirty business. That's why we have Bitcoin.

Hopefully Monty is getting a virtual truckload of Bitcoin thrown at him.
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Oh, you're allowed to pay the coaches in real money ;)
 
#1,328      

illinoisfan11

I
Peoria, IL
illinoisfan11
zpfled said:
When my son inevitably is a 5-star PG recruit, and some boosters are offering $150k for him to go to Indiana, I'm going to teach him how to take that offer to Illinois, ask them for more, then go to the highest bidder out of schools that he would seriously be excited about (and had coaches that I trusted to take good care of my kid).

That's exactly the same process I followed the last time I was on the job market. Learning how to negotiate and leverage an offer is a valuable life skill.

Now, if I got wind that someone wanted to take him to a strip club on his campus visit...well, that's a different story.
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Because then you'll be upset you weren't on the visit with him? Lol. I kid, I kid.


In all seriousness, I have a good friend who was a fairly high-level recruit, and he's told me all sorts of stories from his recruiting visits. He said it was absolutely nuts. My favorite was his visit to a school in Las Vegas, which shall remain nameless. Some boosters put him and the guys hosting his visit up in penthouse in a Vegas casino, put their credit card on file and told them that absolutely anything they wanted could be billed to the room. And I do mean anything. He said he still doesn't remember most of that visit. He also didn't go to UNLV. Lol.
 
#1,329      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
Illiniguy13 said:
Totally agree here. As far as I could tell, the instances I'm referring to technically didn't breach any violations... but....

I also don't want to categorize most UI student athletes as receiving impermissible help. Definitely not a fair statement there.However, let's not be oblivious -- "impermissible" assistance happens. It happens a lot.
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Most athletes opt to receive tutoring and academic help. In some instances, the department actually requires that, and I am sure many schools have mandatory study hall, assistance, academic monitoring, tutoring help, etc.

There is the issue of fairness that has often been debated over the years, not just on message boards. Is that help fair or ethical given that it is not freely provided to other students who may have a need? There are different views on that, I personally have less of a problem given that student-athletes and sports bring extra revenue to the Universities.

Now, have there been cases of impermissible help, either intentional (initiated by ADs - not talking just UI) or unintentional (e.g., the tutor goes the "extra" step)? Of course, but we should not generalize it.
 
#1,330      

TownieMatt

T
CU Expat
Chicago
TownieMatt
illinoisfan11 said:
Because then you'll be upset you weren't on the visit with him? Lol. I kid, I kid.


In all seriousness, I have a good friend who was a fairly high-level recruit, and he's told me all sorts of stories from his recruiting visits. He said it was absolutely nuts. My favorite was his visit to a school in Las Vegas, which shall remain nameless. Some boosters put him and the guys hosting his visit up in penthouse in a Vegas casino, put their credit card on file and told them that absolutely anything they wanted could be billed to the room. And I do mean anything. He said he still doesn't remember most of that visit. He also didn't go to UNLV. Lol.
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So much for nameless ;)
 
#1,331      

FatGreg

F
FatGreg
Second and Chalmers said:
I don't claim to be Mr. Insider, but from what I've heard our problem isn't our willingness to wade into that game, but our ability to marshal a booster network that can launder enough money to compete in blue blood type free for alls.

But that isn't every kid, not even elite kids, not even in Chicago. It depends. But you have to know the game that you're playing. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
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Maybe we should all team up and start a "business": marketing, printing services, courier, etc. Let some boosters know that we're excited to provide business services to the university's athletic programs at a preferential rate.
 
#1,332      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
illinoisfan11 said:
Because then you'll be upset you weren't on the visit with him? Lol. I kid, I kid.


In all seriousness, I have a good friend who was a fairly high-level recruit, and he's told me all sorts of stories from his recruiting visits. He said it was absolutely nuts. My favorite was his visit to a school in Las Vegas, which shall remain nameless. Some boosters put him and the guys hosting his visit up in penthouse in a Vegas casino, put their credit card on file and told them that absolutely anything they wanted could be billed to the room. And I do mean anything. He said he still doesn't remember most of that visit. He also didn't go to UNLV. Lol.
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I should have tried harder at football :frustrated:
 
#1,333      

ILL in IA

ILL in IA
Iowa City
ILL in IA
Second and Chalmers said:
I don't claim to be Mr. Insider, but from what I've heard our problem isn't our willingness to wade into that game, but our ability to marshal a booster network that can launder enough money to compete in blue blood type free for alls.

But that isn't every kid, not even elite kids, not even in Chicago. It depends. But you have to know the game that you're playing. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
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And you better not show up to the gun fight in a Ford Taurus or what ever BW was driving around in.
 
#1,334      

EJ33

E
San Francisco
EJ33
WARDFORTHREE said:
The "grey area" I was speaking of would only be on the front-end of the recruitment. So hypothetically, a player we will call Rerrick Dose's, brother and uncle say they will have him come here if we paid them all $90K, would you be ok doing that? I ask because those big recruitments we all get so frustrated with losing, need this to compete more often than not. So would you be ok paying someone to get them to come here?
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I am fine with Illinois using the same recruiting tactics that the majority of other B1G schools use. We don't need to be the high-and-mighty squeaky clean outlier, but we don't want to be the biggest cheater either.

But let's be honest here. We're not losing because we don't cheat. All the cheating in the world would not have helped Tim Beckman. Whitman is fixing the coaching problem. He's going to improve facilities too. I'd also focus on the legal or permissable ways of influencing recruits. Let's build luxury basketball housing on par with the KU and Kentucky facilities. I don't know how effective the network of wealthy alums in Chicago and St. Louis is, but if you want jobs for your family in those cities then there is no better school to be connected to than Illinois. Deon Thomas, somewhat surprisingly, mentioned this yesterday on the Tay & Jay Show.

Younger folks should realize that our history with cheating is not good. We're the kid that always gets caught even though everybody else is doing the same thing (or worse). Our focus on running clean programs started with the fact that we were bad at cheating and we kept getting caught.
 
#1,335      

cjcastan

cjcastan
cjcastan
WARDFORTHREE said:
The "grey area" I was speaking of would only be on the front-end of the recruitment. So hypothetically, a player we will call Rerrick Dose's, brother and uncle say they will have him come here if we paid them all $90K, would you be ok doing that? I ask because those big recruitments we all get so frustrated with losing, need this to compete more often than not. So would you be ok paying someone to get them to come here?
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As long as we pay market price or get a home state discount lol
 
#1,337      

Calvin

C
Calvin
Second and Chalmers said:
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
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That's very much my impression of big money sports, and IMO the evidence is overwhelming that issues and violations are rampant at the highest levels of revenue sports. PEDs, improper benefits, willful ignorance, academic fraud, how violations are handled, punishments applied, etc.. Furthermore, the NCAA is only concerned with plausible deniability on it's part, and the need to keep the PR machine running.

Mind you, individuals working in the programs and NCAA may be of the highest integrity, and working for the noblest reasons. They just don't represent the institutions true goals and pressures.

Very few fans of high level programs think theirs is one of the dirty ones...and they would be wrong. Very few folks in the NCAA or institutions think they are part of a thoroughly broken system...and they too are wrong.
 
#1,339      

drew306

D
drew306
Maybe (probably) I'm naive but I'm shocked and saddened that the near-consensus opinion here seems to be in favor of outright bribery.

I'd rather see us miss the tournament every year than become a successful, dirty program run by a sleeze like Calipari.

Just my opinion. As for any "age gap" between people's opinion on this so-called "gray area" (I suppose I view it as much more black and white than most) I'm currently in college.

It would taint the experience of being an Illinois fan for me if I knew we were engaging in some of the behavior suggested here.
 
#1,340      

richwoods82

R
richwoods82
Two names I want to throw into thread for your reading enjoyment.


Andy Enfield (USC). He has taken the Trojans to the NCAA tournament the past two years with impressive records. He took Florida Gulf Coast to the Sweet 16 in 2012-2013. He has NBA assistant coaching experience, he is a East Coast guy (PA). He's fairly young (47). Why leave USC for Illinois. USC is a football school. He may be enticed by salary increase. He makes around $1.5M. Why would Illinois hire him? He wins everywhere he goes. Maybe he will bring Nick Rackocevic with him.


Danny Hurley (brother of Bobby Hurley). Has coached the Rhode Island team to a 24-9 record and a trip to the NCAA tournament. He has spent 6 years with Rhode Island and prior to that spent two years with Wagner. What I like about this hire is that he was an Assistant Coach at St. Anthony High School and a Head Coach at St. Benedict's Prep School and if you know high school basketball both of these schools are consistently nationally ranked basketball programs. Current salary: $1M max. Has several 4 star recruits on current roster Kuran Iverson (former Memphis commit) and Stanford Robinson (former Indiana Commit). Why would he leave Rhode Island. Why not. The chance to coach in the B10. Why would Illinois hire him. He is the Hurley that will not leave for the Duke coaching job when it becomes vacant. The buyout clause is reasonable between ($600K and $1.2M). And he can flat out coach.
 
#1,341      

FatGreg

F
FatGreg
drew306 said:
Maybe (probably) I'm naive but I'm shocked and saddened that the near-consensus opinion here seems to be in favor of outright bribery.

I'd rather see us miss the tournament every year than become a successful, dirty program run by a sleeze like Calipari.

Just my opinion. As for any "age gap" between people's opinion on this so-called "gray area" (I suppose I view it as much more black and white than most) I'm currently in college.

It would taint the experience of being an Illinois fan for me if I knew we were engaging in some of the behavior suggested here.
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I hate to say it so definitively, but don't worry: the cynicism will come.
 
#1,343      

ILL in IA

ILL in IA
Iowa City
ILL in IA
I just don't see Enfields model wife giving him the OK to move from LA to C-U
 
#1,349      

Whitman2020

W
Whitman2020
WARDFORTHREE said:
The "grey area" I was speaking of would only be on the front-end of the recruitment. So hypothetically, a player we will call Rerrick Dose's, brother and uncle say they will have him come here if we paid them all $90K, would you be ok doing that? I ask because those big recruitments we all get so frustrated with losing, need this to compete more often than not. So would you be ok paying someone to get them to come here?
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How about just blowing the damn gasket on these things when we lose them? How is this not a thing?
 
#1,350      

RichardKeenesHair

R
RichardKeenesHair
How about if you never had to know about it? I think part of the qualification to be a great coach now is to manage these things so they don't spill over into something larger. As I said upthread, IMHO Bill Self is the perfect "cheater" - he pushes the envelope as far is it will go all with plausible deniability. I respect him for it

drew306 said:
Maybe (probably) I'm naive but I'm shocked and saddened that the near-consensus opinion here seems to be in favor of outright bribery.

I'd rather see us miss the tournament every year than become a successful, dirty program run by a sleeze like Calipari.

Just my opinion. As for any "age gap" between people's opinion on this so-called "gray area" (I suppose I view it as much more black and white than most) I'm currently in college.

It would taint the experience of being an Illinois fan for me if I knew we were engaging in some of the behavior suggested here.
Click to expand...
 
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