The Illinois Coaching Staff Search

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#726      

Deleted member 746648

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I respectfully differ. It's likely a lot simpler than it appears in terms of economy of methods than it appears. And a lot more difficult in terms of the psychological toughness and discipline it requires to master and sustain progress on the lifts, and coach and program these properly across a fleet of players. A set of heavy fives on deadlifts or squats is a cardio event. If you're not gassed afterward you're not lifting enough. A heart monitor isn't required. And if it is, then that's probably a sign that overtraining is knocking at the door.

Nutrition is certainly a central component, but it's peripheral to what a S&C coach does (or should do.) And muscle mass is muscle mass. It can't be lean. We gain muscle and fat when we train, as we can't have one without the other, and we lose both when we lose weight, which is also unavoidable. Am not trying to be argumentative but the topic is intriguing and central to football success.
I agree that the most difficult part of the job is the psychological part. If you get half assed results in the weight room you get half assed job on the field. The technology available nowadays provides more data points to measure progress.

The days of only using PRs on the core lifts are over. Those are still important but if a S&C coach isnt also incorporating things like VO2 max, heart rate (and whatever other measurements that these guys use now) to ensure the cardio is improving then he's wrong. As an example, I know Mizzou used to have an assistant on a monitor watching everyone's heart rate during sprints and they would use that to ensure everyone got the intended outcome from that workout. (Obviously a WR would need to run more than a OL to get their heart rate up).

Using all of this technology ultimately helps with the motivation/psychology part of it and allows the S&C coach to make adjustments on the spot instead of weeks later if he isn't getting results with a player. I'm sure Lou was incorporating this stuff but this field changes pretty frequently so I wouldn't be suprised if he has somewhat fallen behind since the Zook Era. That's just speculation on my part though.
 
#727      
Hmmm. OK. I'll take your word for it regarding the debate. I can't understand how anyone can make a cogent argument that a young man having a 600 lb. deadlift, 500 lb. squat and 400 lb. power clean has inferior explosiveness to a peer possessing less strength and power. Strength is the ability to exert force against an external resistance, whether that resistance is the ground or a 300 lb. lineman. Power is ability to express that strength quickly. A long-distance runner clearly faces a trade-off between increased muscle mass and speed over many miles. A DB, LB, RB, or lineman? That point of diminishing returns, if it even practically exists for them, is pretty difficult to reach.

The debate I mentioned is one I see and hear at every S&C clinic I go to (I coach hs track). So much information out there now that it can almost make you go crazy. And you make a great point about positional needs in the weightroom (DB vs. OT). By all means strength is extremely important. And I 100% agree about it's impact on injury prevention. I am merely speaking about balance. And again I can't say I know exactly what Lou's regimen was but dang our guys are slow on the football field. How much emphasis was put on developing fast twitch via accelarated olympic lifts with somewhat lighter weight? Or was he completely focused on heavy heavy heavy (which is also good for typeII/fast twitch) with less focus on plyometrics and olympic lifts?

I am not an expert and not nearly as knowledgeable as you appear to be. I just hope whoever is next up has a clear idea of how to get speed+strength+explosiveness on the field and has done it before.
 
#728      
One aspect of conditioning that is not understood by a lot of people in the field is recovery time. I have a friend who was a U.S. Olympic coach and he discussed with me about how all athletes have different lengths of time to get back to 100% after strenuous conditioning. Hence some athletes never recover fully and are regressing no matter how hard they work while others progress. The East German athletic complex had technology, that when the wall came down, was shared with other countries and it changed the understanding of frequency and structure. He had a device with the software that at the time cost $36,000 that could measure things about the human physiology that wasn't taken into account before. I had two of my kids that were college athletes work with him and on one of them he did the testing and measurements. We were measuring brain activity, energy generated from a jump pad, time in the air etc. he even explained to me the toll flying takes on the body and how after long flights they no longer went to train but sent the athletes straight to the hotel to rest until the next day. He explained how most S/C coaches teach squats incorrectly which leads to so many knee injuries! There's a lot there but even the ideas about nutrition is all over the place. I have two son-in-laws that are NBA assistant coaches and some of the nutritional philosophies are counter productive from what I understand about the subject. Some teams have the players have an app on their smart phones that record and monitor all their activity and everything they eat but I'm not sure to what benefit. J Leman use to drink down 24 eggs everyday like the ole school weightlifters did and he kept very fit and competed at a high level.
Just some thoughts and ramblings!!!
 
#729      
I think that with S&C, you need a balance of speed/explosiveness and strength and analytics can help provide that balance.

There have been years where I thought Illinios’ players looked like physical freaks, but they were slow and got burned by a guy half their size. I am not a huge fan of Lou. Frankly, most of his teams have gotten by on genetics more than his workouts, and that includes his UNC teams.

If you, as a team, are suffering significant season ending injuries, get a new guy!
That’s always been my thoughts as well. A lot of these strength coaches will just get these players yoked at the expense of their fluidity. Football’s turned to players making plays in space, so having a bunch of stumps out there’s a detriment.
 
#730      
Just going to keep pointing out that Lovie did not hold physical practices. Those players were not prepared to take on the force of a B1G schedule. Now if NC had a lot of injuries during Lou's time there, I would agree with you
I read somewhere that only the top programs get super physical during practice because most programs lack. Part of why the OSU types keep dominating
 
#731      

Deleted member 747671

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Guest
Appreciate the s&c conversation but unless anyone knows specific details on Lou’s program, maybe we cool it down a notch. He’s been a s&c coach for over 25 years. He knows what he’s doing. Usually s&c coaches and programs are driven from the head coach based on their preferences. That’s why most coaches bring in their own guy. Our players looked slow because they kinda are. No offense, but the recruiting and coaching was not good, hence slower looking players. Think of the s&c coach in a similar way to a coordinator. The HC brings in the guy who is going to run his schemes/philosophies even though many different variations can work.
 
#732      
One aspect of conditioning that is not understood by a lot of people in the field is recovery time. I have a friend who was a U.S. Olympic coach and he discussed with me about how all athletes have different lengths of time to get back to 100% after strenuous conditioning. Hence some athletes never recover fully and are regressing no matter how hard they work while others progress. The East German athletic complex had technology, that when the wall came down, was shared with other countries and it changed the understanding of frequency and structure. He had a device with the software that at the time cost $36,000 that could measure things about the human physiology that wasn't taken into account before. I had two of my kids that were college athletes work with him and on one of them he did the testing and measurements. We were measuring brain activity, energy generated from a jump pad, time in the air etc. he even explained to me the toll flying takes on the body and how after long flights they no longer went to train but sent the athletes straight to the hotel to rest until the next day. He explained how most S/C coaches teach squats incorrectly which leads to so many knee injuries! There's a lot there but even the ideas about nutrition is all over the place. I have two son-in-laws that are NBA assistant coaches and some of the nutritional philosophies are counter productive from what I understand about the subject. Some teams have the players have an app on their smart phones that record and monitor all their activity and everything they eat but I'm not sure to what benefit. J Leman use to drink down 24 eggs everyday like the ole school weightlifters did and he kept very fit and competed at a high level.
Just some thoughts and ramblings!!!
Here's someone who understands recovery time and other advanced training methods and concepts as applied to football players - https://www.buccaneers.com/team/coaches-roster/maral-javadifar
Degree in molecular biology; PhD in physical therapy
 
#733      
Appreciate the s&c conversation but unless anyone knows specific details on Lou’s program, maybe we cool it down a notch. He’s been a s&c coach for over 25 years. He knows what he’s doing. Usually s&c coaches and programs are driven from the head coach based on their preferences. That’s why most coaches bring in their own guy. Our players looked slow because they kinda are. No offense, but the recruiting and coaching was not good, hence slower looking players. Think of the s&c coach in a similar way to a coordinator. The HC brings in the guy who is going to run his schemes/philosophies even though many different variations can work.

I would say based on all the testimonials from former players in the Zook era, Lou seemed to excel at the psychological part of the job.
 
#734      

Deleted member 747671

D
Guest
I would say based on all the testimonials from former players in the Zook era, Lou seemed to excel at the psychological part of the job.
Agreed. I’m gonna guess a lot of these posts will be removed soon cause we’re way off topic.

so yesterday hit the under. Today: over/under .5 coaches announced. I’m guessing under.
 
#736      
I would say based on all the testimonials from former players in the Zook era, Lou seemed to excel at the psychological part of the job.
I remember going to the High School linan camps at UIUC during the Zook era and Lou was always there to lead stretches and warm ups. He was very rah rah and all that. Also loved to brag about what people were squatting. I could see how he would get you to buy in back then. I was pretty critical of that type of stuff at the time and by the end of a three day camp I started to feel his enthusiasm. Don't know how it holds up now as these interactions were over a decade ago, but that is my story on Lou.

I think new coaches are fine just because it needs to be the BB era and he needs complete buy in from everyone so we can all pull the same direction while putting out this dumpster fire.
 
#743      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
Seems very much like the defensive equivalent of Tony Petersen. Been around forever, kind of bounces between levels and runs the type of system Bielema is interested in.
Critical to understand the difference: There's no East Carolina tenure there.

Woody was at his alma mater Wofford forever under a long time head coach there, at some point got the itch to move up and Scott Satterfield brought him aboard his project to move App State from FCS conference rival of Wofford to FBS, Woody was a big success there, then he made another jump up to Georgia Tech (taking over for Ted Roof btw) and wound up in the wrong place at the wrong time with Paul Johnson's retirement (after one, winning, season). A year in a makework job and he gets the job with Johnson's protege Jeff Monken at Army.

There's no point in that trajectory where he takes a step upward and is getting blown out by middling AAC schools with an NFL quarterback. No point where he's a cornerstone of the project of a hot name coach taking over a perfect fit solid program and it all being a total disaster for no explicable reason.

Sorry guys. I wish it weren't so. But it is.
 
#745      

Deleted member 747671

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Guest
Critical to understand the difference: There's no East Carolina tenure there.

Woody was at his alma mater Wofford forever under a long time head coach there, at some point got the itch to move up and Scott Satterfield brought him aboard his project to move App State from FCS conference rival of Wofford to FBS, Woody was a big success there, then he made another jump up to Georgia Tech (taking over for Ted Roof btw) and wound up in the wrong place at the wrong time with Paul Johnson's retirement (after one, winning, season). A year in a makework job and he gets the job with Johnson's protege Jeff Monken at Army.

There's no point in that trajectory where he takes a step upward and is getting blown out by middling AAC schools with an NFL quarterback. No point where he's a cornerstone of the project of a hot name coach taking over a perfect fit solid program and it all being a total disaster for no explicable reason.

Sorry guys. I wish it weren't so. But it is.
It sure sounds like you think Scottie Montgomery is a better HC than Petersen is an oc.
Scottie Montgomery was an oc before and now after his stint as HC of ECU. Was he really not calling the shots or running his offense there? And if not, why in the world would he not step in if Petersen was failing that horribly?

Do you think we’ll be seeing the worst offense in recent Illinois history? We’re talking worse than Gonzalez/Beatty and McGee?
 
#747      
Critical to understand the difference: There's no East Carolina tenure there.

Woody was at his alma mater Wofford forever under a long time head coach there, at some point got the itch to move up and Scott Satterfield brought him aboard his project to move App State from FCS conference rival of Wofford to FBS, Woody was a big success there, then he made another jump up to Georgia Tech (taking over for Ted Roof btw) and wound up in the wrong place at the wrong time with Paul Johnson's retirement (after one, winning, season). A year in a makework job and he gets the job with Johnson's protege Jeff Monken at Army.

There's no point in that trajectory where he takes a step upward and is getting blown out by middling AAC schools with an NFL quarterback. No point where he's a cornerstone of the project of a hot name coach taking over a perfect fit solid program and it all being a total disaster for no explicable reason.

Sorry guys. I wish it weren't so. But it is.
I'm in wait and see mode for everyone.

I think your spin on a guy spending 24 years at wofford is interesting.
 
#748      
. Our players looked slow because they kinda are.

We live tackled in practice less than any prior Illinois football coach staff ever has under Lovie. He took the pro approach that players know how to play, so go light practice to reduce injury and fatigue. That may work in the pros, but it doesn’t work in college with college players that need practice reps to get better.

I think we looked slow and soft bc our practices were slow and soft. Guarantee that won’t be a problem under Bielema. There gonna be some 1s vs 1s full contact. I think it was either Turner or Zook that Leman once called it “knockout Tuesday’s”. No more soft no tackling strip the ball nonsense.
 
#750      
We live tackled in practice less than any prior Illinois football coach staff ever has under Lovie. He took the pro approach that players know how to play, so go light practice to reduce injury and fatigue. That may work in the pros, but it doesn’t work in college with college players that need practice reps to get better.

I think we looked slow and soft bc our practices were slow and soft. Guarantee that won’t be a problem under Bielema. There gonna be some 1s vs 1s full contact. I think it was either Turner or Zook that Leman once called it “knockout Tuesday’s”. No more soft no tackling strip the ball nonsense.
Lovie has always been deathly afraid of injuries happening in practices. Going back to his Bear days. Kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don't type of thing. But, you can't let what might happen keep you from doing what should be done. Let em go at it in practice, I say.
 
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