Personally, I think it is a terrible hire in many regards. I hope this does not happen. I will support the team, but think it is a really bad hire.
The Illinois Football Coaching Search
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ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Going back to the mooted insider list:
Those all seem totally credible and fine.
My top choice would be Monken diving in 100% with the football he knows and my last choice would probably be Monken if he's going to try to change who he is.
I'd be very happy with Fickell, but I don't necessarily see him as head and shoulders above the others.
My opinion on Bielema would be very dependent on what he said in the interview and what those around him could tell me.
I hope that's the list, both because the people on it are good, and it would say to me that Whitman has a coherent and sensible idea for what he's looking for for the program.
This I did not know. And even if he's learned to behave himself as an older man, that's a bomb that can potentially detonate in the press many years later.
GrayGhost77
- Centennial, CO
I'm honestly not hating the idea of Bielema if he were the choice. Less risky than most names mentioned in that has has headed a B1G program before. He maintained success at Wiscy. Not ultimately successful at Arkansas but SEC is a different animal altogether. People do learn from their mistakes. It's not crazy to think he might have learned a thing or two and would be entirely successful if given another chance at a program like ours. And who doesn't like a good redemption story?
I still like other candidate names out there better (Liepold, Fickell, Lewis), but we could do a lot worse than Bielema.
I still like other candidate names out there better (Liepold, Fickell, Lewis), but we could do a lot worse than Bielema.
YOU DO NOT WANT CANADA AS OC!!!
Sincerely,
A loyal and devout NC State Fan
Our offense got significantly better when Canada was fired. He does not develop QBs and his passing game is terrible (the concept of WR spacing means nothing to him). His jet motion is useful but he dials it up at inopportune times. Finally, red zone offense was a real struggle.
My final note, there is a reason the dude was unemployed for a while. Several years at NC State, only to be fired for poor development and attitude issues. A year at Pitt. Less than a year at LSU, where Coach O got so pissed at him that he fired him midseason. Bad road...
Ubermensch
BOOM! Feed my ego.
Please, no Bielema. I don't want the guy who failed at Arkansas. That isn't inspiring.
Deleted member 747671
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Yeah I guess that's just the name I recognize most. He seems very hit or miss, like he alternates being great and being terrible. Bad at NCSU, good at Pitt, terrible at LSU, good at Maryland. Also, I had heard he's not the best to work with and really quickly will jump if he thinks it'll progress his career.
He fell into the Pitt situation. Chryst had just left for Wisconsin, and Pitt had a really solid run-blocking OL and set of running backs.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
I'm not sure you can look at someone who stood toe to toe and really competed with a division that was: Peak Alabama, Malzahn's best Auburn teams, Hugh Freeze's Ole Miss, Dan Mullen's best Mississippi State teams, Johnny Football-era Texas A&M and LSU and call 29-34 with three bowls in five years a "failure".
It wasn't success, but it's not clear success was really a possible outcome there.
It's taken roughly 48 hours, but we have begun to talk ourselves into Bert-The-Frat-Boy.
Wisconsin fans continue to be given ample reason to laugh at us.
Wisconsin fans continue to be given ample reason to laugh at us.
altenberger22
- South Carolina
You make an excellent point about White, Mackovic and Fry. Certainly, that list could go on infinitely in looking at successful head coaches at the Power 5 schools over the last 20, 30 or 40 years. And as others have pointed out previously, Whitman probably doesn't get a third chance 4-5 years from now if this selection is a failure.
Illwinsagain
- Cary, IL
Notices change in moniker
Deleted member 747671
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I may be wrong here but I think Whitman is different than most ADs. He's very well liked and an alum. I think if Underwood keeps Illinois near the top of the conference in hoops, Whitman will be able to make as many football hires as he needs as long as there's no scandal in the athletics department.
mhuml32
- Cincinnati, OH
I don't see how you can separate the fact that Bielema's losses to these programs led to these program's golden years. Sumlin's TAMU run is looking very much like a fraud, Hugh Freeze had his own issues, and Malzahn was just fired.
For example, this is NW's best run in years, same for Minny, Wisconsin is still extremely excellent, Iowa put up their first 10-win season in five years, and Brohm has injected new lift into Purdue's program. But part of those programs' success is because Lovie handed a bunch of wins to each of them since he started here. Bielema chose the Arkansas job and the program had been playing well the past 20 years. The descent started under his watch.
I'm of the opinion that Josh's third chance at a FB hire would be dependent on the success of basketball, fundraising and other sports. As has been mentioned, UIUC administration above Josh doesn't care that much about football. Admin would only have issues with Josh if he was unsuccessful across the board.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
I understand your point, but you need more than one team like that to really create a golden era.
Like, to pick an example, Mike Davis' Indiana, Quin Snyder's Mizzou, Steve Alford's Iowa, and Tommy Amaker's Michigan all happening at the same time.
altenberger22
- South Carolina
Great data, particularly with the three years prior to his arrival in ARK.
That's pretty ugly in my book. And I'm just 'meh' on Bielema. Still trusting Josh.
Ubermensch
BOOM! Feed my ego.
Fair points. I'll take time to think it over more.
illinihawk16
- Chicago
I agree with this. If the admin really doesn't put as much stock into wins as other criteria, I absolutely see Josh getting a 3rd football hire. With that said, let's hope he doesn't need a 3rd hire for awhile because he gets this one right.
I have nothing to base this on, but I keep wondering if JW wouldn’t like a younger coach or at least near to his age — Lewis, Hartline, etc — with whom to form a “team” to rebuild Illinois football.
We're so thirsty to be mediocre that Bielema will always do just well enough to never get fired. He'll go 4-8 to 7-5 every year with the occasional 8 win year to keep us hoping. And for that people will want a statue of this oaf. If he's so good how are we even able to get him? Everyone knows who he is so why hasn't he taken another college HC job yet? Either no one is pursuing him, bad sign, or he doesn't want the grind that comes with being a college HC anymore, also bad sign. Maybe he's waiting for the right job to open up? I doubt anyone who has already been a HC in the B1G and the SEC would ever consider Illinois to be the right job, a job worth waiting for. Most likely thing is no one else wants him, and for good reason.
I will admit I could not be more negative on Beilema. But I can"t see him being the choice by Whitman either. Why would he mention the new hire showing character? Nobody forced those comments and It just doesn't match up with that choice. I am not buying the new poster knowing anything. I still think Liepold or Monken are most likely. But there are probably two dozen possibilities.
altenberger22
- South Carolina
I support $4.5M-ish for Fickell. I just pulled the following excerpt from a South Carolina write-up about Shane Bieber, rumored to be getting paid ~$3M by the Gamecocks.
The average annual head coach's salary in the SEC is $5.6 million with eight of the 14 making at least $5 million per season. The 2020 average includes a pair of fired coaches with USC's Will Muschamp due $4.4 million this year and Vanderbilt's Derek Mason due $3.5 million.
Ubermensch
BOOM! Feed my ego.
Wow, these coaches' salaries.
If Illinois isn't willing to pay $5M a year for the head football coach in the B10, then what are we doing here?
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I kind of reject the premise of that article talking about these various "coaching archetypes" that we have tried, suggesting that we shouldn't try one again because it failed previously. Even a first-class AD is ultimately making a guess if he doesn't have the choice options that a program like Alabama or Ohio State has, and I believe that applies to Josh. Ron Zook didn't work out because he clearly couldn't match in-game coaching up with his recruiting, not because he "failed" at Florida. Beckman failed here, despite that bad scandal, because he just didn't seem to be a very good coach, not because he was from a mid-major. Lovie fell short here not because he was a recently fired NFL coach, but because ... well, I'll let a more football-minded person tackle that one.
My point is that we should consider every type of option. What we need is someone who can come here and near-immediately do two things - convince talented recruits that they can turn this program into a winner in a few years AND establish a new culture that gets more out of the players we already have. Underwood appears to have done this amazingly so far on the hoops side. After that, we will obviously need a good Xs and Os coach, but if he can't do the first two things, I am not sure it will matter ... we won't ever get any proof he's a good in-game coach before he's fired anyway, lol.
Personally, I like the idea of going with a younger (less annoying) PJ Fleck type. I want a young, energetic face for this program who is hungry and willing to effectively start from scratch in crafting a new identity for "Illinois Football." That NECESSARILY requires both a culture shock and an infusion of the type of talent that can compete at the top (or at least middle, come on!) of the Big Ten. Obviously, basketball is easier with fewer players, but imagine where we would be right now without Kofi, Ayo and the freshmen. That's not a knock on our other players - Da'monte, Trent and Giorgi are maybe my favorites! - but you need both of those two things to really turn it around.
I am not as knowledgeable about the current NCAA landscape as many posters here, but I have faith in Whitman to make the right hire. I still think the Lovie hire was a dynamite hire in theory, and I don't think that many people could have predicted that it would turn out this poorly, especially with recruiting. Underwood appears a homerun so far to me, so Josh has earned my trust, and I think he can find a good catch. Here's to hoping, because at the end of the day ... I just want to venture out on a college football Saturday here in Chicago and have two things:
1) See Illini gear around in the proportion that it should be, given U of I has 220,000 alumni in the Chicagoland area, WAY more than any other school. Additionally, while most non-grad Chicagoans aren't that into college sports, if they do jump on a bandwagon ... it's ours or Notre Dame's, so there are so many fans there for the picking. When we are bad, you see about as much Illini gear as Purdue stuff. When we are good, ours outshines any other school 4-1 and is more numerous than ND, as well.
2) Not be embarrassed to be wearing an Illini shirt because we are a threat to nearly any team on a given Saturday, regardless of our record. Seriously, I have had people look at me not with the distaste of a rival but rather pity that I'm seemingly alone cheering on my horrible team in my own home state, haha.
#2 causes #1.
My point is that we should consider every type of option. What we need is someone who can come here and near-immediately do two things - convince talented recruits that they can turn this program into a winner in a few years AND establish a new culture that gets more out of the players we already have. Underwood appears to have done this amazingly so far on the hoops side. After that, we will obviously need a good Xs and Os coach, but if he can't do the first two things, I am not sure it will matter ... we won't ever get any proof he's a good in-game coach before he's fired anyway, lol.
Personally, I like the idea of going with a younger (less annoying) PJ Fleck type. I want a young, energetic face for this program who is hungry and willing to effectively start from scratch in crafting a new identity for "Illinois Football." That NECESSARILY requires both a culture shock and an infusion of the type of talent that can compete at the top (or at least middle, come on!) of the Big Ten. Obviously, basketball is easier with fewer players, but imagine where we would be right now without Kofi, Ayo and the freshmen. That's not a knock on our other players - Da'monte, Trent and Giorgi are maybe my favorites! - but you need both of those two things to really turn it around.
I am not as knowledgeable about the current NCAA landscape as many posters here, but I have faith in Whitman to make the right hire. I still think the Lovie hire was a dynamite hire in theory, and I don't think that many people could have predicted that it would turn out this poorly, especially with recruiting. Underwood appears a homerun so far to me, so Josh has earned my trust, and I think he can find a good catch. Here's to hoping, because at the end of the day ... I just want to venture out on a college football Saturday here in Chicago and have two things:
1) See Illini gear around in the proportion that it should be, given U of I has 220,000 alumni in the Chicagoland area, WAY more than any other school. Additionally, while most non-grad Chicagoans aren't that into college sports, if they do jump on a bandwagon ... it's ours or Notre Dame's, so there are so many fans there for the picking. When we are bad, you see about as much Illini gear as Purdue stuff. When we are good, ours outshines any other school 4-1 and is more numerous than ND, as well.
2) Not be embarrassed to be wearing an Illini shirt because we are a threat to nearly any team on a given Saturday, regardless of our record. Seriously, I have had people look at me not with the distaste of a rival but rather pity that I'm seemingly alone cheering on my horrible team in my own home state, haha.
#2 causes #1.
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