The mascot debate/fandom thread

#326      

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest
Bloomington, IL
Not orange. This gaslighting has to stop. I haven't found a single bird reference that describes the kingfisher as having orange, the female is described as having either a rufous or orange colored band.

It's cool to want something that's O&B but find something that's actually O&B rather than pretending reddish-brown is orange.
I missed my edit--rufous or RUST colored band. Apologies for my very confusing oversight.

Again--NOT orange.
 
#327      

lstewart53x3

Scottsdale, Arizona
I missed my edit--rufous or RUST colored band. Apologies for my very confusing oversight.

Again--NOT orange.
I do not want the kingfisher, but looks Orange and Blue here
 

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#328      

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest
Bloomington, IL
I do not want the kingfisher, but looks Orange and Blue here
I don't know what that is, but it isn't an adult female belted kingfisher. The crest is missing, the beak is wrong, and the color is wrong. Perhaps more gaslighting?

1698355987278.png
 
#329      

lstewart53x3

Scottsdale, Arizona
I don't know what that is, but it isn't an adult female belted kingfisher. The crest is missing, the beak is wrong, and the color is wrong. Perhaps more gaslighting?

View attachment 28637
Interesting. The other is the picture that comes up first when you google kingfisher
 
#330      

I posted this link a day or two ago but I don't see it anymore. Sorry Dan if it's somehow an issue....

It's an official State of Illinois website about this bird....
 
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#331      
I am the same way, but man was it electric when the Chief came out at halftime whether on the field or on the court - there was nothing like it in College athletics.
Some people still get to experience electricity. The irony of it all… This happens at EVERY Florida State University game. Watch Chief Osceola here. Everyone at, everyone in Illinois should see that and more like it.

The goal of the anti-Chief, pro-bird people is to eliminate ALL references to Native Americans in any official imagery of the University of Illinois, and that includes Illini. And like the War Chant, Oskee-wow-wow and the Three-in-One, will be gone. You’ll have nothing to “Chief” to.

Can you imagine Florida State without Osceola? THIS…or some silly mascot.

Can you imagine the irony of Florida State joining the B1G and the “Illini” coming to town with a silly bird?
 
#332      
Why is it so dumb? Majestic bird, amazing hunter, happens to be orange and blue and lives in our state. Oh, and one frequents my backyard. And, when I lived downstate, I saw them frequently along the Vermillion river near Danville.

It's a great match for UIUC especially since the CURRENT students and faculty want it. University and its activities are for the youth of our fine state.
Majestic bird? It’s five ounce…and it eats minnows. You want majestic?. Here’s majestic. Can your little bird do this?
 
#333      
"Fighting Illini" is an ambiguous name. I know there's debate and confusion around the exact origin, but based on what I've read it seems to have been a kind of faddy way to be self-referential, way before there was any Native American imagery, or any imagery at all (or even any sports at all, it was the 1870s). The NCAA essentially admitted as much when the Chief was retired.

Given that ambiguity, it's a safe bet that there will be future asks about what the name means. As things stand, someone could pretty easily make the (again, as I understand, inaccurate) charge of "yeah they dropped the Chief but they're still coasting along with a Native American name." And given that there's still plenty of people wearing Chief merchandise, showing up to games wearing headdresses and feathers, etc. and nothing else really taking up any other space, it'd be a pretty easy case to make.

I agree with the factual argument here, but I'm not sure it matters. Do the majority of people who found the Chief offensive also associate Fighting Illini with Native American imagery and therefore want the name changed? I think so. Heck, I associated the name with Native American imagery before, during, and after my stay in Champaign, until such time as I had to research it further to offer defenses for dropping the Chief but keeping the name. I just don't think the general public is ever going to care to differentiate, and I don't see how the presence or absence of a costumed animal on the sidelines changes that.

But if you want to move the ball down the field toward "Fighting Illini" being more widely viewed and treated as something akin to "Hoosier" where it just means "someone from/a supporter of Illinois", it'd behoove you to start finding ways to do that. Animals that are native to the state (the kingfisher and the otter qualify) would be helpful in that effort. If the goal is to someday be able to effectively defend the name, I think my way is more effective than the alternative.

In particular, I think the Kingfisher is a trojan horse for a name change. For all the talk of mascots, the pro-Kingfisher crowd has produced mostly logos and graphics. How many schools have an official logo that has nothing to do with their team nickname? Alabama has the Elephant mascot, but I don't think it plays a prominent role in their branding.

If the Kingfisher mascot happens, I hope you're correct. I just don't see it.
 
#334      

GrayGhost77

Centennial, CO
Why is it so dumb? Majestic bird, amazing hunter, happens to be orange and blue and lives in our state. Oh, and one frequents my backyard. And, when I lived downstate, I saw them frequently along the Vermillion river near Danville.

It's a great match for UIUC especially since the CURRENT students and faculty want it. University and its activities are for the youth of our fine state.
It's not like it's unique to Illinois in any way. They are found over a wide range over many states and countries - not just Illinois. Besides, ISU just down the road is already a bird, but at least it's the actual state bird.
 
#336      
In particular, I think the Kingfisher is a trojan horse for a name change. For all the talk of mascots, the pro-Kingfisher crowd has produced mostly logos and graphics. How many schools have an official logo that has nothing to do with their team nickname? Alabama has the Elephant mascot, but I don't think it plays a prominent role in their branding.
I’m with you on this part. If it’s just a goofy mascot for the kids, why all the “in-game-graphic” esque logos?

I’m sure there are a few examples here and there of schools that HAVE a logo that includes an unrelated mascot, but it’s not the norm.

Plus, the mascot costume they did come up with is this hideous monstrosity.

1698376540180.jpeg
 
#337      
I’m with you on this part. If it’s just a goofy mascot for the kids, why all the “in-game-graphic” esque logos?

I’m sure there are a few examples here and there of schools that HAVE a logo that includes an unrelated mascot, but it’s not the norm.

Plus, the mascot costume they did come up with is this hideous monstrosity.
I think the reason for all the logos and graphics is simply because it's the best way for them to promote the idea. I don't believe it's a coincidence that the first mascot proposal to really gain any true traction has been the one with a professional-looking visual identity. They had to fundraise to get the costume in the photo you sent and I don't think they would have gotten any support from the student body (which probably contributed the most money to them) if all their proposals looked hand-drawn or like they were just taken from clipart.

It's hard to find schools that have logos with unrelated mascots because it's hard to find schools with mascots unrelated to the nickname. The only I can think of off the top of my head is Standford with the tree being super integral to their logo, but that's the only example I can think of, at least with only counting what schools officially list as their logos. Standford still tho uses the tree in addition to block S.

As for the looks of the costume itself, I'm honestly not quite sure I've seen any good-looking bird mascot costumes. I'm not sure if the idea of birds just don't work with this or if I'm just so tired of damn bird mascots that it makes them all look bad. Either way, the costume doesn't look any worse than a typical bird mascot, but bird mascots almost always suck imo. The fact that it'd be another damn bird mascot might honestly be my biggest problem with the Kingfisher idea. If you're going to have no creativity when trying to pick a mascot idea, then just commit to having no creativity and do some goofy unknown creature like Gritty from the Flyers or Big Red from WKU, or the Blue Blob from Xavier. And an advantage there is there's no risk of anyone using it to try and change the name from Fighting Illini.

I do still stand by that I doubt Kingfisher will come to fruition anytime soon, at least in any official sense. Athletics seems to be really pushing back on it, even if they're doing it silently. All entities related to the DIA were instructed to basically not even acknowledge the bird at the parade. DIA seems to be very aware that they're likely the ones to take the negative impacts if this ever were to become official and are pushing back on it presumably due to that. You may see autonomous entities of the university adopt it and the community (mainly students) adopt the Kingfisher, but I doubt it'll be acknowledged officially at least for a while.
 
#338      

sbillini

st petersburg, fl
Some people still get to experience electricity. The irony of it all… This happens at EVERY Florida State University game. Watch Chief Osceola here. Everyone at, everyone in Illinois should see that and more like it.

The goal of the anti-Chief, pro-bird people is to eliminate ALL references to Native Americans in any official imagery of the University of Illinois, and that includes Illini. And like the War Chant, Oskee-wow-wow and the Three-in-One, will be gone. You’ll have nothing to “Chief” to.

Can you imagine Florida State without Osceola? THIS…or some silly mascot.

Can you imagine the irony of Florida State joining the B1G and the “Illini” coming to town with a silly bird?
If we're 14 pages (and ungodly number of years) into this debate and people still don't understand why FSU's situation is clearly not the same as UIUC's, this is a hopeless debate in general.
 
#339      
I’m with you on this part. If it’s just a goofy mascot for the kids, why all the “in-game-graphic” esque logos?

I’m sure there are a few examples here and there of schools that HAVE a logo that includes an unrelated mascot, but it’s not the norm.

Plus, the mascot costume they did come up with is this hideous monstrosity.

View attachment 28639
Great pic! And you can clearly see CURRENT students having FUN.
 
#341      
I think the costume in practicality would look better. That obviously looks bad and cheap. Still while I'm not a kingfisher guy and think it looks silly I don't think it really matters either way.
 
#342      
It is kind of funny thinking about it that if the original student editorial in 1882 said the name was based on the Illiniwek term, we probably would have had to change the name. Not even saying it was or wasn't, but just one line in 1882 would have changed a lot for our brand lol. I think more likely there's just only so many names you can come up with around Illinois, but thank god they didn't say it was based on anything Native American.
 
#344      
You, sir, are correct. Not only was I wrong but the correct date refutes my argument since the attendance in 2006 was 43,465, in 2007 it was 54,872, in 2008 it was 61,707 and in 2009 it was 59,544. The attendance in the years immediately following the Chief departure was some of the best in the last two decades.
So going to the Rose Bowl is good for attendance.
 
#345      
I’m calling it right now.

Someone is going to dress up in a different mascot costume (maybe one discussed here, maybe not) and they will (hopefully not too aggressively) come out of nowhere and take down the poor gal/guy in the kingfisher costume.

It will be all over twitter and then THAT will become our goofy mascot.

And I no, it won’t be me that does it! 🤣
 
#347      
Some people still get to experience electricity. The irony of it all… This happens at EVERY Florida State University game. Watch Chief Osceola here. Everyone at, everyone in Illinois should see that and more like it.

The goal of the anti-Chief, pro-bird people is to eliminate ALL references to Native Americans in any official imagery of the University of Illinois, and that includes Illini. And like the War Chant, Oskee-wow-wow and the Three-in-One, will be gone. You’ll have nothing to “Chief” to.

Can you imagine Florida State without Osceola? THIS…or some silly mascot.

Can you imagine the irony of Florida State joining the B1G and the “Illini” coming to town with a silly bird?
Prolly should rename the state too. /s
 
#348      

socalini

So Cali
Just chiming in with my .02:

Like it or not, the Chief is never coming back.
"Fighting Illini" is never going away.
I feel no connection to the Kingfisher whatsoever. Grasping at straws for something, debatably, orange and blue.
Some form of Galloping Ghost is, in my opinion, the best option, assuming his family is cool with it. Have a student in a sepia-toned uniform and makeup with some orange highlights or stripes on it. Have him on the sideline by the team pumping up the crowd at the appropriate times. Maybe run through the band for a touchdown at halftime. I think it could look pretty cool.
 
#349      
Why is it so dumb? Majestic bird, amazing hunter, happens to be orange and blue and lives in our state. Oh, and one frequents my backyard. And, when I lived downstate, I saw them frequently along the Vermillion river near Danville.

It's a great match for UIUC especially since the CURRENT students and faculty want it. University and its activities are for the youth of our fine state.
Because it is completely manufactured. There is nothing that particularly ties Illinois to the kingfisher. The bird's range is nearly the entire country. AND the bright orange and blue picture that shows up the internet is not even the kingfisher that is native to North America! It is the European one.