The QB position - how we got here

2013 - Aaron Bailey. Big time recruit. Burned his redshirt strangely. Offensive coordinator changed after his freshman year to a more pocket passer. Was behind O’Toole and Lunt on the depth chart, transferred to Northern Iowa for his last two years and did pretty well. Undrafted FA pick up by the Ravens. Currently on IR.

What if Bailey were a red shirt senior for this team? Seems like he would have fit McGee’s offense perfectly.

2014 - Chayce Crouch and Jeff George Jr. Crouch has the size, the guts and is mobile. He can’t throw. Finishing his junior season as a TE and is probably where he spends his senior season, too.

George has a better arm, but makes bad decisions and is an interception machine. Not particularly big or athletic. Not a running threat and not a good fit for the offense. Only a red shirt sophomore. Could certainly improve.

2015 & 2016 - Jimmy Fitzgerald & Eli Peters. Pocket passers that didn’t fit McGee’s scheme. Both transferred before taking a snap at Illinois. Dartmouth and Toledo respectively. Neither have taken a snap for their new teams either, making it seem unlikely that they would have been able to contribute much to this team this year.

2017 - Dwayne Lawson & Cam Thomas. Lovie Smith’s first QB recruits. Lawson a former Va Tech recruit, JuCo transfer didn’t qualify academically. In limbo. Who knows if he’ll ever take a snap at Illinois.

Thomas a true freshman project. Really has no business being on the field yet, but forced to play out of desperation. The potential is clearly there and he seems to be making strides every week, but is a long, long way away.

So there we are. 7 recruits. 3 won’t (or didn’t) finish their eligibility at Illinois, one is now a TE, one is in academic limbo, one doesn’t fit the offensive scheme and one is a completely raw freshman.

We’ve quite obviously been hurt by having three OCs with very different schemes in only 5 years. From mobile qb to pocket qb back to mobile qb. George and Thomas will quite likely improve as they mature, just a sophomore and freshman in eligibility. It would be quite a bit more concerning if they were upperclassmen. Still, I have a feeling the next qb to start a bowl game for the Illini isn’t on campus yet.

Just one correction, Cubit came here before Bailey got on campus, but he was recruited for the system ran by Beatty/Gonzales.

What about the Pete DiNovo era?

Illinibatt said:

What about the Pete DiNovo era?

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What did it last, all of a fortnight?

Unfortunately, it's even worse if you keep going back a few years.

2012: Nobody.
2011: Reilly O'Toole. He wasn't a B1G starting QB, sorry.
2010: Miles Osei. See O'Toole, Reilly.
2009: Nate Scheelhasse. He had a nice career and I have no complaints here.

EthanM said:

Unfortunately, it's even worse if you keep going back a few years.

2012: Nobody.
2011: Reilly O'Toole. He wasn't a B1G starting QB, sorry.
2010: Miles Osei. See O'Toole, Reilly.
2009: Nate Scheelhasse. He had a nice career and I have no complaints here.

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Yeah. It's a long way from Wilson, Eason, Trudeau, George...

champaignchris said:

Yeah. It's a long way from Wilson, Eason, Trudeau, George...

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It's a long way from Verduzco and Johnny Johnson.

Instability at HC and OC will do this to a team.

Great summary.

Lawson was a project with known eligibility hurdles, and he couldn't even start in JUCO. The failure of the staff to find a viable JUCO or transfer QB last year is really mind-boggling.

EJ33 said:

Great summary.

Lawson was a project with known eligibility hurdles, and he couldn't even start in JUCO. The failure of the staff to find a viable JUCO or transfer QB last year is really mind-boggling.

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I don't know that the JUCO or transfer market was as fertile as you might think.

If you take into account that Chayce Crouch currently has the highest completion percentage of all the QBs, it looks like (in retrospect) that replacing him with George was a mistake.

Crouch may actually be the best passing QB on the roster right now, which is bizarre because he can't throw downfield well.

But Cam Thomas is not ready and George Jr. is a turnover machine.

Illinibatt said:

If you take into account that Chayce Crouch currently has the highest completion percentage of all the QBs, it looks like (in retrospect) that replacing him with George was a mistake.

Crouch may actually be the best passing QB on the roster right now, which is bizarre because he can't throw downfield well.

But Cam Thomas is not ready and George Jr. is a turnover machine.

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Agreed. I keep saying there is a reason JGJ was #2 coming out of camp. He's a turnover machine. Lovie and the staff thought they could make it work to Crouch, knowing he was not the best passer. They'd be a run heavy team, and be selective in the passing game. Problem was, the run never really got established and when you're behind in games and have to throw, this lineup had no chance.

Best that can be done at this point is get Thomas as many reps as possible, and bring him along. I'm fine w/ JGJ in spots, but no more than that.

We had to change from Crouch. I love his heart but Cam throws way better than he does and he’s a much better run threat. With Crouch, no team would have to defend the pass and they could stack the box. So I don’t think there is any way we would have done better with Crouch at all.

champaignchris said:

2013 - Aaron Bailey. Big time recruit. Burned his redshirt strangely. Offensive coordinator changed after his freshman year to a more pocket passer. Was behind O’Toole and Lunt on the depth chart, transferred to Northern Iowa for his last two years and did pretty well. Undrafted FA pick up by the Ravens. Currently on IR.

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Bailey was waived by the Ravens with an injury settlement back in July. Not on IR.

EthanM said:

Unfortunately, it's even worse if you keep going back a few years.

2012: Nobody.
2011: Reilly O'Toole. He wasn't a B1G starting QB, sorry.
2010: Miles Osei. See O'Toole, Reilly.
2009: Nate Scheelhasse. He had a nice career and I have no complaints here.

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I think we're stunting our perception of Illinois QB's. Scheelhasse was a great QB - 1st in total yards, 3rd in passing TD's, t-2nd in total touchdowns. He's one of the all-time greats. I also would argue Reilly became starting QB-worthy at the end of his career. Wasn't anything special, but he was still 5th in passing efficiency and 4th in completion percentage in 2014. He was a below-average QB. If you have a senior QB who can become that at the end of their career, especially at a school that is traditionally near the bottom of B1G standings, that's fine.

Holy moly, people are actually saying Crouch would've given us a better chance? Hell no, he couldn't even get the offense to move the ball against the lesser opponents. Guys, he was BADDDD.

bigruss22 said:

Holy moly, people are actually saying Crouch would've given us a better chance? Hell no, he couldn't even get the offense to move the ball against the lesser opponents. Guys, he was BADDDD.

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...and pair that with an offensive line that was equally bad, and the offensive game plan for the season was exposed very quickly. Like, say the second quarter of the South Florida game.

Illinibatt said:

I wonder if we had just stayed with Crouch and been a run based offense all year, if we wouldn't have at least one more win?

Either way, the 2017 season is over now and we might as well play Cam Thomas every down.

There's just no point in playing anyone else now.

This is 2018 pre-season now.

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It's been the 2018 preseason since June. In reality, everything through 2018 is the 2019 preseason.

Illinibatt said:

I wonder if we had just stayed with Crouch and been a run based offense all year, if we wouldn't have at least one more win?

Either way, the 2017 season is over now and we might as well play Cam Thomas every down.

There's just no point in playing anyone else now.

This is 2018 pre-season now.

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Agree completely with the part about playing Thomas. No more of the alternating quarterbacks, especially within the same set of four downs, which is maddening. You probably are going to lose the remaining games on the schedule, just play Thomas and give him experience in all different types of situations.

FiveStar said:

It's been the 2018 preseason since June. In reality, everything through 2018 is the 2019 preseason.

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I don't agree with those already throwing 2018 in the garbage can. Turner, Zook, and even Beckman had significant improvement in year 3 of their tenure. And the cupboard was pretty bare for both Turner or Zook when they took over. I don't expect a bowl next year, but I do expect 4-5 wins with at least 2 conference wins. If not, the whole direction of this thing should be questioned and recruiting will start to be hurt as well, imo.

Illiniaaron said:

I don't agree with those already throwing 2018 in the garbage can. Turner, Zook, and even Beckman had significant improvement in year 3 of their tenure. And the cupboard was pretty bare for both Turner or Zook when they took over. I don't expect a bowl next year, but I do expect 4-5 wins with at least 2 conference wins. If not, the whole direction of this thing should be questioned and recruiting will start to be hurt as well, imo.

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We have 2 non-cons in 2018 that we'd better win (not sure how S. Florida will be next year). If we're not better than at least a couple big ten teams to get to 4 wins, I think it's more than fair to start questioning the direction. In fact, a 3 win season next year had better make the seat uncomfortably warm.

RedRocksIllini said:

We have 2 non-cons in 2018 that we'd better win (not sure how S. Florida will be next year). If we're not better than at least a couple big ten teams to get to 4 wins, I think it's more than fair to start questioning the direction. In fact, a 3 win season next year had better make the seat uncomfortably warm.

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I get wanting quick turn arounds, but man thats a needle in a haystack view, and let me tell you, we've had a lot of hay come coach here. Lovie is arguably the most well known and respected HC we have ever had. I would rather give him a solid 4 years to show solid improvement (and im not sure last year even really counts) than to hit the reset button again.

It's frustrating to me to have a revolving door of coaches. It literally helps no one. Give guys time to actually build something. If it fails, move on, but restarting a house because the foundation wasn't pouring fast enough isn't the right way to go about things.

I'd like to believe Lovie is doing the right thing currently. He's got QB talent coming in. And this isn't your beckham Juco transfer talent either. SUre we aren't snatching 4/5 stars every day but these guys have talent.

I think we are on the right course and need to stay the course next year regardless of the number of wins. I disagreed with those in the past who said we should stay the course because we would not be able to attract a better coach. That was not the case regarding Beckman, Zook or Turner. That is the case now. We have a great and highly respected coaching staff and the question ‘who will you get better’ is absolutely valid. Have faith. These guys are building the program and we will see the results. I for one am not writing off 2018. We will be pleasantly surprised because our sophomores next year will play like juniors and seniors due to the experience they’re getting this year. We’re not that far off if you’re watching the games. We’re getting beat by teams like Purdue not because they are more talented or better coached but because they have more experience. One play comes to mind where they ran for a good gain simply because our freshmen were completely out of position to make the tackle and our dB had to make the play. They won’t make those mistakes next year.

BZuppke said:

I think we are on the right course and need to stay the course next year regardless of the number of wins. I disagreed with those in the past who said we should stay the course because we would not be able to attract a better coach. That was not the case regarding Beckman, Zook or Turner. That is the case now. We have a great and highly respected coaching staff and the question ‘who will you get better’ is absolutely valid. Have faith. These guys are building the program and we will see the results. I for one am not writing off 2018. We will be pleasantly surprised because our sophomores next year will play like juniors and seniors due to the experience they’re getting this year. We’re not that far off if you’re watching the games. We’re getting beat by teams like Purdue not because they are more talented or better coached but because they have more experience. One play comes to mind where they ran for a good gain simply because our freshmen were completely out of position to make the tackle and our dB had to make the play. They won’t make those mistakes next year.

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Agree 100%. This is going to be a better team next year based on nothing other than the two lines getting older and stronger. The defense especially. I can't count the number of times our defenders have basically made the right reads and been in the right positions, but were simply too physically over-matched to make the play.

It's 18 year olds against 22 year olds on the lines. We're getting beat there on the basis of biology more than any other factor right now. That won't happen anywhere near as much in the upcoming years.

ChiefIllini said:

I get wanting quick turn arounds, but man thats a needle in a haystack view, and let me tell you, we've had a lot of hay come coach here. Lovie is arguably the most well known and respected HC we have ever had. I would rather give him a solid 4 years to show solid improvement (and im not sure last year even really counts) than to hit the reset button again.

It's frustrating to me to have a revolving door of coaches. It literally helps no one. Give guys time to actually build something. If it fails, move on, but restarting a house because the foundation wasn't pouring fast enough isn't the right way to go about things.

I'd like to believe Lovie is doing the right thing currently. He's got QB talent coming in. And this isn't your beckham Juco transfer talent either. SUre we aren't snatching 4/5 stars every day but these guys have talent.

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I hear what you're saying and I do think he's heading in the right direction. But I don't think you can just keep throwing season after season away and shrug it off as rebuilding. At some point, you have to show some progress by winning some games. Otherwise, you're just rebuilding a team that only knows how to lose. If next year is a repeat of this year, I think you're kidding yourself if you think there isn't going to be some pretty strong noise towards change. Just to be clear, I agree with you on giving him a solid 4 years, no matter what. But I have no say in who is the coach and I think another year of being the conference doormat is going to get Whitman a lot of calls and conversations from donors that he'd rather not have.

RedRocksIllini said:

I hear what you're saying and I do think he's heading in the right direction. But I don't think you can just keep throwing season after season away and shrug it off as rebuilding. At some point, you have to show some progress by winning some games. Otherwise, you're just rebuilding a team that only knows how to lose. If next year is a repeat of this year, I think you're kidding yourself if you think there isn't going to be some pretty strong noise towards change. Just to be clear, I agree with you on giving him a solid 4 years, no matter what. But I have no say in who is the coach and I think another year of being the conference doormat is going to get Whitman a lot of calls and conversations from donors that he'd rather not have.

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I don't think anyone is giving Lovie an infinite pass. I believe most who support him realize we are playing a tremendous amount of freshmen and true freshmen, so are giving this year a pass.

Next year, speaking for myself, I expect improvement while not necessarily a bowl game. Hopeful for one, but not expecting it. i would think a four win season is reasonable expectations knowing we are still young, albeit slightly more experienced and mght not have solved our QB situation.

In two years, a bowl game is the minimum. It is not unreasonable to even expect contending for west title, depending on quality of other teams in west. If like now, definitely expect to be contending.

After that, bowl game should be minimal expectations very year, and even west title contention expectation. Not just for Lovie, but for Illnois in general. Need to raise level of expectations.