TSJ Thread
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As a relative and friend of several rape survivors, I will be extremely angry if this turns out to be a false accusation. Actual rapists get to walk free because society doesn't accept their explanations, accuses them of being in an unsafe situation caused by systemic acceptance of rape as something that "just happens", and often cares more for the accused's future than the idea that a serious crime may have been committed, all at the cost of justice for all involved. (Sadly, I've seen some of these takes here and elsewhere)
When a false accusation occurs, the accuser damages not only themselves and the accused (and the families of such), but all rape survivors.
When the first news broke, I was of the mind that the speedy point from incident to arrest was indicative of a large trove of evidence instilling confidence that an arrest was warranted and a conviction forthcoming. If this turns out to be something that occurred in public, possibly without actual intercourse, I don't see how they can get this far, then.
I'm also not sure how I feel about this being back-channeled and reported like a recruiting battle. I'm running on the assumption that Shannon will have his day in court and should, which means he's not coming back to this team. I can't even imagine the backlash against the university and the DIA if they put him on the court with a rape charge hanging over his head and nothing but rumors supporting his innocence.
When a false accusation occurs, the accuser damages not only themselves and the accused (and the families of such), but all rape survivors.
When the first news broke, I was of the mind that the speedy point from incident to arrest was indicative of a large trove of evidence instilling confidence that an arrest was warranted and a conviction forthcoming. If this turns out to be something that occurred in public, possibly without actual intercourse, I don't see how they can get this far, then.
I'm also not sure how I feel about this being back-channeled and reported like a recruiting battle. I'm running on the assumption that Shannon will have his day in court and should, which means he's not coming back to this team. I can't even imagine the backlash against the university and the DIA if they put him on the court with a rape charge hanging over his head and nothing but rumors supporting his innocence.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
The decision is not in the DIA's hands, it's up to a 3 person panel of faculty/administration. That's part of a process established by the DIA to ensure that what you describe won't take place.
If/when TJ takes the court for the O&B, it will be because the panel--working on behalf of the best interests of the University (not the DIA) has determined it's the right thing to do.
The Tweet says the report confirms the incident happened at a bar, but I don’t see that anywhere on the report.
The report says the incident was reported at 2:50pm on Saturday the 9th. The game was the night before. So is the accuser claiming that she and TSJ met on Saturday and that’s when the sexual battery occurred? That is seemingly the only way to justify a rape with no alcohol and/or force used with a sexual battery charge with alcohol suspected and use of a “personal weapon.” If both charges occurred simultaneously, the logic makes no sense.
A "redacted report" would be a copy of the original report with personal information blocked out. This is a report that was completed today either using a form already previously completed or completed today since one had not been completed. Type of victim is not even marked, the reporting officer is not on the form other than at the bottom so if this is the officer providing the document in response to the FOI request it would make sense to have their name with the reporting officer on the form.
FOI requests are for documents in the possession of the public body, not documents made using documents in their possession.
In either case this is not a "copy" of the original offense report.
We suspected that this was a mess from the get go and this pretty much confirms it.
I think that, ultimately, both sides will get together and determine that both of these kids need to move on with their lives. I also think that TSJ has to accept the fact that this was an exercise in bad judgement. Given his status, he needs to know that he simply cannot be near a situation where "common folk" can try to get a piece of him. He's not the first and he won't be the last to have this happen. This is a constant theme at the pro level.
Here's a reality surrounding these significant NIL deals and high profile players. While receiving these big paychecks doesn't effect your status as a collegiate athlete, it absolutely eliminates your status as a college student being in the same social settings as other college students. That's what you are giving up. It's unfortunate, but as much as these kids want to have it all, they can't. There are some players that have gone completely virtual with their classes to avoid this completely.
i think that TSJ will be back playing this year, but it'll be at the expense of paying a painful lesson. The price that he's going to pay is a social one. He's probably going to have to avoid the media completely, he's ability for any personal post season awards is probably gone and road games for him are going to be brutal. Ultimately, this is going to cost him money. If even one pro team questions his character and passes on him because of it....that'll be money lost.
Hopefully this will be a lesson learned for all of these kids. Just my take.
I think that, ultimately, both sides will get together and determine that both of these kids need to move on with their lives. I also think that TSJ has to accept the fact that this was an exercise in bad judgement. Given his status, he needs to know that he simply cannot be near a situation where "common folk" can try to get a piece of him. He's not the first and he won't be the last to have this happen. This is a constant theme at the pro level.
Here's a reality surrounding these significant NIL deals and high profile players. While receiving these big paychecks doesn't effect your status as a collegiate athlete, it absolutely eliminates your status as a college student being in the same social settings as other college students. That's what you are giving up. It's unfortunate, but as much as these kids want to have it all, they can't. There are some players that have gone completely virtual with their classes to avoid this completely.
i think that TSJ will be back playing this year, but it'll be at the expense of paying a painful lesson. The price that he's going to pay is a social one. He's probably going to have to avoid the media completely, he's ability for any personal post season awards is probably gone and road games for him are going to be brutal. Ultimately, this is going to cost him money. If even one pro team questions his character and passes on him because of it....that'll be money lost.
Hopefully this will be a lesson learned for all of these kids. Just my take.
This is bizarre.
DB11Headband
- Chicago Burbs
The number codes confirm it was in a “bar/night club”
When would a return to the team happen?
tbd. still some stuff to play out
stlrunner
jakeyjakey
- St Louis, MO
Depends on the Wal-Mart, probably.
Back-channeled because the DIA is not an investigatory entity (for legal matters); this is very deliberate because we’ve witnessed too many internal investigations fail epically and have decided to err on side of allowing a presumably more impartial entity handle a legal investigation (with regards to player eligibility). Lines have to be drawn somewhere, so DIA made some rules about when a suspension should be handed out and when to let things ride. Among those lines: certain CHARGES elicit automatic suspension. Being notified of a complaint, however, does not (not that it CAN’T, it’s just not an auto-suspend).
Due to this policy of not conducting investigations (like, for instance, going to Lawrence and asking around), the DIA “officially” knows only what is disclosed publicly or directly to it by the investigating and/or prosecuting authority(ies). No info given by police (despite requests), no official statement from DA after the charge, nor after the warrant (am still very fuzzy as to the 3-week gap between those two things occurring), no incident report available until today.
That said, the DIA HAD TO back-channel some info because from the get-go, you want to know some stuff about your guys. Like, do we want this young man being an influence to 12 other guys? A prominent figure on campus and face of the revered basketball program? For that part, there is no policy in place. You can’t quantify judge of character in a policy. It’s a tough line to walk because on the one hand, you are stating that you don’t investigate a legal matter. On the other hand, you have a duty to your community. So yeah, the DIA probably discovered some stuff about the incident, enough so that it was perfectly good with TJ going about his business as a fellow student, teammate, member of the community. If what the DIA discovered were unsavory, but still not “official”, they would have found a way to discipline TJ and distance themselves from him.
Due to this policy of not conducting investigations (like, for instance, going to Lawrence and asking around), the DIA “officially” knows only what is disclosed publicly or directly to it by the investigating and/or prosecuting authority(ies). No info given by police (despite requests), no official statement from DA after the charge, nor after the warrant (am still very fuzzy as to the 3-week gap between those two things occurring), no incident report available until today.
That said, the DIA HAD TO back-channel some info because from the get-go, you want to know some stuff about your guys. Like, do we want this young man being an influence to 12 other guys? A prominent figure on campus and face of the revered basketball program? For that part, there is no policy in place. You can’t quantify judge of character in a policy. It’s a tough line to walk because on the one hand, you are stating that you don’t investigate a legal matter. On the other hand, you have a duty to your community. So yeah, the DIA probably discovered some stuff about the incident, enough so that it was perfectly good with TJ going about his business as a fellow student, teammate, member of the community. If what the DIA discovered were unsavory, but still not “official”, they would have found a way to discipline TJ and distance themselves from him.
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Thank you.
sacraig
- The desert
Bark twice if before Purdue.
Dan
Admin
"According to the Kansas Incident Based Reporting System Handbook, "personal weapon" can refer to fists, feet, teeth, etc. Basically, a body part."
twitter.com/JWerner247
twitter.com/JWerner247
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Anyway, this is just nuts. Based on nothing more than my (relatively) random guess based on what I've seen so far, I am definitely getting the vibe that this was overcharged by a, err, "problematic" DA and now that "Terrence's side" has not taken this accusation laying down, the DA's case looks sketchier and sketchier. I can only hope that no sexual assault was committed and these charges are dropped.
As I have said before, if you start with the presumption that Terrence is innocent until there is evidence that he is not (which I did), EVERY piece of circumstantial evidence and rumors (which is all we have right now) makes it seem even more so the case that he is not guilty of this. And if that's the case, I hope our DIA stands by him.
As I have said before, if you start with the presumption that Terrence is innocent until there is evidence that he is not (which I did), EVERY piece of circumstantial evidence and rumors (which is all we have right now) makes it seem even more so the case that he is not guilty of this. And if that's the case, I hope our DIA stands by him.
I wonder how long it would take for him to be reinstated after charges are hypothetically dropped. If charges were hypothetically dropped on the day of a game, would he play that night?
I’m sure there’s no answer for this, just a thought
Hi,
Any timeline on when he may return?
There are only 2 1/2 months remaining.
Really, really appreciate your insight. You have saved me hours of therapy!
I would be shocked if he's back by Friday. Torwards the end of January is more of the timeline I am thinking
Why haven't the accusers statements been released yet? That should give us a lot of information as well.
Jaylon Tate was reinstated less than 24 hours after his domestic violence charges were dropped IIRC....granted that was the offseason and his ordeal took a while, but that is one example
If everything plays out the way we hope, don’t see it as a really bad thing if we have to play without TJ for a few weeks… let the other guys gain some confidence and experience and by the time he is hopefully cleared to go… it’s going to be better for the whole team.. hopefully we can keep stacking wins in his absence.
Never felt the inclination to post until now. I have been a trial lawyer for over 40 years. Prosecutor, civil, have pretty much seen it all. High profile cases, routine and everything in between. Good cases, marginal cases, which no prosecutor should ever bring unless there are special circumstances.
One thing about over 40 years, the tea leaves start looking less like a snow globe.
As many have noted, we do not have all the facts, really very few facts. That makes it almost impossible to come to any accurate conclusions.
However, way too much does not make sense based on the established facts I have heard. Something is wrong here. Very wrong.
One thing about over 40 years, the tea leaves start looking less like a snow globe.
As many have noted, we do not have all the facts, really very few facts. That makes it almost impossible to come to any accurate conclusions.
However, way too much does not make sense based on the established facts I have heard. Something is wrong here. Very wrong.
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