The panel found there is credible evidence he committed a major offense. It is hard to imagine how they came to that conclusion. Maybe from a rubber stamp?
TSJ Thread
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Is that a statement or did they not have enough info to pull the suspension? I would have thought that was the likely scenario given the lack of communication from the DA.
He was arrested. I'd think that alone would be enough for them.
redwingillini11
White and Sixth
- North Aurora
So I haven’t read this complaint yet, but TROs are a mixed bag. Judges don’t like to hand them out willy nilly. You have to show in your petition that you are suffering an irreparable harm, and that you are likely to prevail in showing you were wronged in the end. It can be a high standard. That’s not to say it won’t be granted, but it can very much depend on what judge you get.
Also, TROs are merely temporary. If it’s granted, he will have to go in again in the next two weeks to get a preliminary injunction for the rest of the season.
Yes I know this is hard to believe but people who commit sex crimes will often do so when there are no witnesses and will do things that won’t leave behind incriminating physical evidence. I guess they did not cover sex predator behavior patterns in your child and adolescent psychology classes.
Also, sorry if this comes as a shock, but men publicly groping women is not exactly a rare or unheard of crime.
To be ckear, this is not a commentary on the TSJ situation. I have my own concerns with the manner that prosecutor’s office has handled this.
But some of the comments on here handwringing “oh how could such an allegation ever happen? Where’s the justice?” Do you even live in this world? Have you ever spent any time in the company of intoxicated men?
Please. The charging affidavit was just made public
illinifanclassof17
- San Francisco
Forgive me for beating a dead horse here but:
1. What information do we have (besides insiders) that leads us to believe the TRO will be approved and he will be able to return. I'm no law expert and the experts here say he will return, but how is this possible given that due to the misconduct policy, he is barred from being with the team and adheres to the decision of the panel.
2. JW talked at length about how important the panel is and how great it was that the DIA wasn't involved. The panel does something that we disagree with and and now they can be sidestepped? What is the point of this part of the misconduct policy and the panel?
Would love any clarity on the couple of points. TSJ is my favorite player on the current team. I believe he is innocent just based on the presumption of innocence but this seems like a he said/she said at this point that doesn't lead me to believe too far in each direction (although it seems like the DIA and insiders here know for sure that he is innocent although no evidence we've seen clears him of any wrongdoing). @LvilleILL said "This would not be happening if they thought there was a chance to point to him being guilty". I'm curious what evidence they have seen/heard that we haven't that ensures there is no chance that he is guilty. (or maybe there is just no evidence that can point him to being guilt)
1. What information do we have (besides insiders) that leads us to believe the TRO will be approved and he will be able to return. I'm no law expert and the experts here say he will return, but how is this possible given that due to the misconduct policy, he is barred from being with the team and adheres to the decision of the panel.
2. JW talked at length about how important the panel is and how great it was that the DIA wasn't involved. The panel does something that we disagree with and and now they can be sidestepped? What is the point of this part of the misconduct policy and the panel?
Would love any clarity on the couple of points. TSJ is my favorite player on the current team. I believe he is innocent just based on the presumption of innocence but this seems like a he said/she said at this point that doesn't lead me to believe too far in each direction (although it seems like the DIA and insiders here know for sure that he is innocent although no evidence we've seen clears him of any wrongdoing). @LvilleILL said "This would not be happening if they thought there was a chance to point to him being guilty". I'm curious what evidence they have seen/heard that we haven't that ensures there is no chance that he is guilty. (or maybe there is just no evidence that can point him to being guilt)
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Yes men are bad especially intoxicated men.
That is from the letter they sent to TJS.
Wow, someone is in a feisty mood! Seeing that my posts seem to be detrimental to your mental health may I suggest utilizing the “ignore” functionality? My professional opinion of course…
There are plenty of other pieces of evidence that can come into play besides eye witness accounts. None of which are present in this particular case.
Where is your concern for a young man like TSJ? He could lose everything he’s ever worked for because of this. He could go for NBA made man to now having the stain of his name associated with rape along with floundering to find a sense of self, purpose and afford to supportive himself for the rest of his life. I can’t even imagine waking up in the morning and read every national headline of your name = rape. That’s traumatic as hell. Where is the sympathy for him or have you presumed guilt?
So the burden of proof is on the accused then eh? Dude, you raped my wife. Now prove you didn’t. - Can you not see the insanity in this?
Like I said, in my professional career I’ve seen my share of false allegations from jaded ex-girlfriends, severe mental health cases, remorseful/regretful one night stands, etc.
So yes, I live in the world, but it seems my world seems much more nuanced then yours. I also live in a world where I live by the age old legal axioms of the burden of proof is on the accuser and innocent until proven guilty.
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I have read the portions of the pleading you refer to, but allegations in a pleading do not make them fact. If counsel had cases supporting fact finding or a presumption of innocence being requirements of procedural due process you'd see case citations included. P.S., attorney here. You?
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I apologize. I did not mean to be cavalier with your post. You are 100% correct. Maybe that even happened here. But you, me, every citizen has the right to have it properly investigated, professionally and ethically handled, your homework done, due regard given for the accuser and the accused and the potential for ideologue bias and misconduct kept in check by an impartial determination of probable cause
An intoxicated young man publicly groping a woman is a clear way of describing an allegation for which a potentially life- and career-altering punishment is unfair and excessive. This must be sooooo frustrating for TSJ and his inner circle.
I’m not suggesting that there never be repercussions based on allegations. In many cases, it’s bloody obvious that something awful has happened. But this does not appear to be one of them, and does not appear to have been one of them from the outset (or else our very smart, lawyerly AD would have insisted on repercussions IMO).
And let’s face it, in this case, it would just take a decision maker with sand to say, “We’re loyal to you, TSJ.” (This is not directed at our AD; it is a statement about the worldview that so many panelists in academia seem to have these days, as everyone already knows).
After it’s all said and done, maybe this incident ends up getting broader attention and reorients the culture to proceeding cautiously, letting things play out, applying the benefit of the doubt, insisting on fairness to both sides, due process, etc.
That's why I said the judge will decide. But yes, everything I wrote was written by an attorney.
I am no legal expert in these type of cases involving students. But for certain type of public employment related disciplinary adverse actions such as a suspension, some due process violations can be corrected so he is afforded due process before imposing the suspension. It just means they have to redo the suspension affording the student notice and a right to be heard brfore imposition of a new suspension. Also, I can't see a prosecutor bringing a charge and dismissing it so quickly without some new evidence coming to light. To do so would essentially be a tacit concession her months long investigation supporting her charges missed something. Even assuming something were wrong with the evidence, I don't think the DAs office would dismiss early on if only to save face. I hope I wrong on all this and TJ is cleared of any wrong doing. It's possible the victim saw TSJ there and someone else did this to her but she only remember TSJ face. The encounter occurred in a minute in a crowded bar and it seems the male was behind her. It's scary to think about how easily a false, intentionally or not, accusation can ruin a promising life.
I have not seen anyone in this sub post the actual Motion his attorneys drafted, so see below:
As a licensed Illinois civil litigation attorney, a few things to note:
He has six attorneys of record who signed the motion, two from a national law firm with offices throughout the country, one being in Chicago, an attorney from Urbana, two attorneys from Edwardsville, and an attorney from Oakbrook. Thank god for NIL, he has put himself together a “dream team” of experienced, educated attorneys.
I’ll avoid getting into the legalese of his attorneys arguments, but a few things I found interesting:
(1) The three person DIA panel decision making standard balanced weight of harm to the University in allowing TSJ to continue to play, and is not athlete centered.
(2) his attorneys are painting TSJ as an “employee” of the university who was under the “control” of the university by virtue of grad assistant Dyshawn Hobson driving TSJ and Harmon to Lawrence. This factors into his attorneys arguments that under Title 9, he should not have been suspended because Illinois’ Title 9 coordinator failed to complete a risk/safety analysis of keeping TSJ on campus. They are arguing that the University failed to complete the required investigation as a public institution that receives funding from the federal government.
(3) The necessity of the court issuing a TRO argument clearly meets the burden the four required elements: (a) a right in need of protection (lucrative professional career in jeopardy without due process) (b) irreparable harm (inability to play, plummeting draft stock, loss of NIL) (c) inadequate legal remedies (none available besides this court intervention) (d) likelihood of success on the merits (raising a fair question of rights claimed, clearly met here)
I can go into more detail if requested, but this was an extremely well reasoned, well written argument by his attorneys that touched on not just University policy, but potential violations of state and federal law of his DIA suspension. The University has its work cut out for them in adequately “fighting” this. I would be extremely surprised to see the Judge handling this not grant this initial TRO.
https://newschannel20.com/resources/pdf/65a7bf7d-0d2a-4e77-a895-c9a36ee4bd65-ShannonTROetcMotion.pdf
As a licensed Illinois civil litigation attorney, a few things to note:
He has six attorneys of record who signed the motion, two from a national law firm with offices throughout the country, one being in Chicago, an attorney from Urbana, two attorneys from Edwardsville, and an attorney from Oakbrook. Thank god for NIL, he has put himself together a “dream team” of experienced, educated attorneys.
I’ll avoid getting into the legalese of his attorneys arguments, but a few things I found interesting:
(1) The three person DIA panel decision making standard balanced weight of harm to the University in allowing TSJ to continue to play, and is not athlete centered.
(2) his attorneys are painting TSJ as an “employee” of the university who was under the “control” of the university by virtue of grad assistant Dyshawn Hobson driving TSJ and Harmon to Lawrence. This factors into his attorneys arguments that under Title 9, he should not have been suspended because Illinois’ Title 9 coordinator failed to complete a risk/safety analysis of keeping TSJ on campus. They are arguing that the University failed to complete the required investigation as a public institution that receives funding from the federal government.
(3) The necessity of the court issuing a TRO argument clearly meets the burden the four required elements: (a) a right in need of protection (lucrative professional career in jeopardy without due process) (b) irreparable harm (inability to play, plummeting draft stock, loss of NIL) (c) inadequate legal remedies (none available besides this court intervention) (d) likelihood of success on the merits (raising a fair question of rights claimed, clearly met here)
I can go into more detail if requested, but this was an extremely well reasoned, well written argument by his attorneys that touched on not just University policy, but potential violations of state and federal law of his DIA suspension. The University has its work cut out for them in adequately “fighting” this. I would be extremely surprised to see the Judge handling this not grant this initial TRO.
I'll be honest, I was hoping that all the details that came out today would have effectively proven TSJ innocent, and I have to admit after reading it all that's not the way I see it. The account in the affidavit, though not conclusive, adds up, at least for now. A lot of the rumored details from early on have not really come up, and it's looking like we'll never know for sure one way or another, which is a really awkward place to be emotionally as a fan.
If I were representing UI or the court hearing the case, I would have the panel give TSJ his opportunity within the next couple of days to make his case, and then the panel could make the same decision. I am sure the panel has wide discretion in its fact finding and decision making with which the court would not interfere. If the panel cures the issues of procedural due process, then TSJ can be suspended, and the lawsuit goes away. Getting a court to reverse the actual decision in a proper process will be much more difficult. I would not get my hopes up too high at this point. Only if the panel is absolutely convinced that the charges are BS might they possibly reverse the suspension. And I doubt they wear the same kind of orange tinted glasses that we do.
I doubt UI is working with the TSJ camp. Maybe DIA is, but not the panel.
As to probable cause, I read the charging affidavit and I see probable cause. There may not be enough there to get a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt (it has to be some kind of record to be off camera for a total of two minutes and be raped in the interim), but sadly there is probably enough to charge. JMHO.
That said this is where prosecutorial discretion is supposed to come into play - just because you can charge a crime doesn't mean you should.
I doubt UI is working with the TSJ camp. Maybe DIA is, but not the panel.
As to probable cause, I read the charging affidavit and I see probable cause. There may not be enough there to get a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt (it has to be some kind of record to be off camera for a total of two minutes and be raped in the interim), but sadly there is probably enough to charge. JMHO.
That said this is where prosecutorial discretion is supposed to come into play - just because you can charge a crime doesn't mean you should.
For the record: I strongly believe that this is a bad take with or without the parts that don't make sense.
So much interesting stuff in the TRO filing and exhibits. One that raised my eyebrows: apparently the LPD interviewed several members of the KU basketball team just last week, including one (maybe more?) who were with TJ at the bar.
Gee whiz, I wonder what those witnesses said, and how interesting that they were not interviewed before this thing blew up in the press?
Gee whiz, I wonder what those witnesses said, and how interesting that they were not interviewed before this thing blew up in the press?
illini.culture IG
- Grand Rapids, Michigan
Here is a full breakdown of the entire court filing on behalf of Terrence Shannon Jr. All straight from Shannon Jr's legal team...
I am really conflicted about this turn of events. I get that a person is innocent until proven guilty, [I hope and pray that he is innocent] but if TJS is allowed to play through this process without a clear resolution of this case I am not sure that really benefits him or the team. I can hear the chants of rapist or some other nasty comments at opponents venue's across the country. How does this affect the team as a whole going forward? Could it tear this team apart? How does it affect recruiting of future athletes. I do hope the best for all parties going forward but I think it is a no-win situation no matter how it turns out!
I’m confused on this part. Are they saying the university should have been “smart enough” to keep TSJ on campus instead of letting him go to Lawerence since nothing like this could have happened? I’m not sure I get your wording here.
skyIdub
Winged Warrior
There’s a lot of comments on this board about a specific incident, which according to the….victims own statement…are perfect examples of young men getting railroaded by an imperfect system that is weighted heavily towards….victims statements
This is not to say it shouldn’t be weighted heavily towards victims and their statements, but the social pendulum has swung so far that it is far too easy to see proposed justice run amok, because of that imperfect system.
There is also a lot of virtue signaling that conveniently pounces on these incidents.
Let this incident, and others, stand on its own merit rather than trying to lump it in as some example of a much larger problem that….according to video and the victims own statements….is much different, and way worse than what we are dealing with in this case.
So I think this is as simple as the UI/Whitmans policy of a 3 person board determining what to do unilaterally is outdated in only a matter of the 8 years since its inception. Once NIL was introduced into college athletics it changed the entire “mandate” for due process. If you suspended an athlete 15 years ago and let them continue their education you were fulfilling your obligation to that athlete. Their compensation was entirely their scholarship.
Fast forward 8 years and now athletes have contracts completely outside the university and the scholarship obligation that was once the only real “compensation” provided. There are real financial consequences here now as it is clear the education provided is an after thought for an athlete such as TSJ.
I am not saying there is no need for a panel such as the one in place, rather it needs to look at the circumstances of the alleged allegation much more closely with an eye not just on protecting the university but also the student athlete. If you had the preverbal “smoking gun” that would be one thing, but in a case like this the accused for sure at least needs to be heard by the panel? The ramifications to his life and those around him are simply too great. NIL has changed this in my opinion.
So let’s look at potential damage. If he is allowed to play until the court case is concluded and he is found guilty. Yes the university does suffer some degree of “reputational” damage and this a real thing, but I don’t see any real “financial” hardship the university suffers. Even if, as should have happened to UNC in 2005, the games were vacated does that create an undue burden on the UI? When he played, it would have been by court order and he was not a criminal at that point so I don’t even think they could vacate the games?
On the other hand, a “permanent” suspension as is really what will happen in a case like this has very serious financial ramifications on a person in TSJ’s current and future earnings potential.
Who suffers more by his not playing? I would argue it is not even close.
Last point, I am best friends with the largest criminal defense attourney in Ft. Myers Florida. He has been watching this case with me. According to him defendants rarely if ever go on the offensive. It opens them up to way to many potential issues that could lead to a conviction no mater if they did the crime or not. TSJ is doing exactly that going on offense and making his case public. In our world today (don’t care your political affiliation) does that happen? Nope just shut up and let them prove it is often the best path forward.
Just my opinion, but if TSJ did this why would he be fighting so hard to play in college again? An agent would clearly sign him. The case is almost certainly going to be plead down to much less than the most serious charge. He could simply go home to Chicago get ready to go to Europe for a year or two and return as an NBA player there after. Yet, he is still in school attending classes it sounds like and is fighting to play in college. Yep that sounds like a person who is guilty. Don’t buy it. Bad decision to be in a bar maybe, but should it be life destroying? He deserves his day in court first IMHO.
Fast forward 8 years and now athletes have contracts completely outside the university and the scholarship obligation that was once the only real “compensation” provided. There are real financial consequences here now as it is clear the education provided is an after thought for an athlete such as TSJ.
I am not saying there is no need for a panel such as the one in place, rather it needs to look at the circumstances of the alleged allegation much more closely with an eye not just on protecting the university but also the student athlete. If you had the preverbal “smoking gun” that would be one thing, but in a case like this the accused for sure at least needs to be heard by the panel? The ramifications to his life and those around him are simply too great. NIL has changed this in my opinion.
So let’s look at potential damage. If he is allowed to play until the court case is concluded and he is found guilty. Yes the university does suffer some degree of “reputational” damage and this a real thing, but I don’t see any real “financial” hardship the university suffers. Even if, as should have happened to UNC in 2005, the games were vacated does that create an undue burden on the UI? When he played, it would have been by court order and he was not a criminal at that point so I don’t even think they could vacate the games?
On the other hand, a “permanent” suspension as is really what will happen in a case like this has very serious financial ramifications on a person in TSJ’s current and future earnings potential.
Who suffers more by his not playing? I would argue it is not even close.
Last point, I am best friends with the largest criminal defense attourney in Ft. Myers Florida. He has been watching this case with me. According to him defendants rarely if ever go on the offensive. It opens them up to way to many potential issues that could lead to a conviction no mater if they did the crime or not. TSJ is doing exactly that going on offense and making his case public. In our world today (don’t care your political affiliation) does that happen? Nope just shut up and let them prove it is often the best path forward.
Just my opinion, but if TSJ did this why would he be fighting so hard to play in college again? An agent would clearly sign him. The case is almost certainly going to be plead down to much less than the most serious charge. He could simply go home to Chicago get ready to go to Europe for a year or two and return as an NBA player there after. Yet, he is still in school attending classes it sounds like and is fighting to play in college. Yep that sounds like a person who is guilty. Don’t buy it. Bad decision to be in a bar maybe, but should it be life destroying? He deserves his day in court first IMHO.
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