TSJ Thread

[Illinifrank67]

I have not seen anyone in this sub post the actual Motion his attorneys drafted, so see below:

https://newschannel20.com/resources/pdf/65a7bf7d-0d2a-4e77-a895-c9a36ee4bd65-ShannonTROetcMotion.pdf

As a licensed Illinois civil litigation attorney, a few things to note:

He has six attorneys of record who signed the motion, two from a national law firm with offices throughout the country, one being in Chicago, an attorney from Urbana, two attorneys from Edwardsville, and an attorney from Oakbrook. Thank god for NIL, he has put himself together a “dream team” of experienced, educated attorneys.

I’ll avoid getting into the legalese of his attorneys arguments, but a few things I found interesting:

(1) The three person DIA panel decision making standard balanced weight of harm to the University in allowing TSJ to continue to play, and is not athlete centered.

(2) his attorneys are painting TSJ as an “employee” of the university who was under the “control” of the university by virtue of grad assistant Dyshawn Hobson driving TSJ and Harmon to Lawrence. This factors into his attorneys arguments that under Title 9, he should not have been suspended because Illinois’ Title 9 coordinator failed to complete a risk/safety analysis of keeping TSJ on campus. They are arguing that the University failed to complete the required investigation as a public institution that receives funding from the federal government.

(3) The necessity of the court issuing a TRO argument clearly meets the burden the four required elements: (a) a right in need of protection (lucrative professional career in jeopardy without due process) (b) irreparable harm (inability to play, plummeting draft stock, loss of NIL) (c) inadequate legal remedies (none available besides this court intervention) (d) likelihood of success on the merits (raising a fair question of rights claimed, clearly met here)

I can go into more detail if requested, but this was an extremely well reasoned, well written argument by his attorneys that touched on not just University policy, but potential violations of state and federal law of his DIA suspension. The University has its work cut out for them in adequately “fighting” this. I would be extremely surprised to see the Judge handling this not grant this initial TRO.

I’m pretty sure this is the first time I’ve ever seen one attorney complement the work of another. Of course I jest. Thank you for the insight!

 

[Illini in Italy]

That's why I said the judge will decide. But yes, everything I wrote was written by an attorney.

oooooooo . . . lawyer fight!

Put 10 attorneys in a locked room and ask one question and you will get 157 responses, each one unique.

 

[Loyalillini10]

There’s a lot of comments on this board about a specific incident, which according to the….victims own statement…are perfect examples of young men getting railroaded by an imperfect system that is weighted heavily towards….victims statements
This is not to say it shouldn’t be weighted heavily towards victims and their statements, but the social pendulum has swung so far that it is far too easy to see proposed justice run amok, because of that imperfect system.

There is also a lot of virtue signaling that conveniently pounces on these incidents.

Let this incident, and others, stand on its own merit rather than trying to lump it in as some example of a much larger problem that….according to video and the victims own statements….is much different, and way worse than what we are dealing with in this case.

Nah, Sky, I agree with you on a lot of things but not here. Many, many comments on this board have been general and, frankly, obtuse statements about rape accusations. I read more than a few posts about how this couldn't have occurred because, "someone they know wouldn't have reacted that way," or, "they can't possibly see how this could happen." That isn't virtue signaling and to be blunt, the whole "virtue signaling" thing is bulls$#!.

I don't think there is a single person on this board that doesn't wish for this for this incident to not have occurred. What many of us point out is that there have been a lot of gross statements here. I have said it before and I'll say it again: it is okay to want TJ to be innocent and not say awful things about the accuser or women in general.

 

[Illinijoe]

Nah, Sky, I agree with you on a lot of things but not here. Many, many comments on this board have been general and, frankly, obtuse statements about rape accusations. I read more than a few posts about how this couldn't have occurred because, "someone they know wouldn't have reacted that way," or, "they can't possibly see how this could happen." That isn't virtue signaling and to be blunt, the whole "virtue signaling" thing is bulls$#!.

I don't think there is a single person on this board that doesn't wish for this for this incident to not have occurred. What many of us point out is that there have been a lot of gross statements here. I have said it before and I'll say it again: it is okay to want TJ to be innocent and not say awful things about the accuser or women in general.

I think that this is very true. However, if these are truly false accusations then she needs to face consequences. The issue is we may never truly know what happened so need to respect both parties.

 

[Big Jack]

Ok i had this question pop up in my head this morning while reading all of the information on here..

How did TJ lawyers know that the accuser had gone back to her home and googled all of the information listed in this filing? Would his defense attorney be able to get their hands on her computer that quickly? Would it have been checked by the DA first and then provided to the defense? Very confusing to me that they have all of this information so soon after the warrant was issued.

 

[PlayDeeBrownNote]

Ok i had this question pop up in my head this morning while reading all of the information on here..

How did TJ lawyers know that the accuser had gone back to her home and googled all of the information listed in this filing? Would his defense attorney be able to get their hands on her computer that quickly? Would it have been checked by the DA first and then provided to the defense? Very confusing to me that they have all of this information so soon after the warrant was issued.

It was in the police report.

 

[Big Jack]

It was in the police report.

Ok thanks thought the report I read it in was the defenses info provided for the TRO. If it was in the police report then the arrest warrant makes even less sense to me. But this isn't Law and Order.

 

[Joel Goodson]

Of course it is not probable cause. This is a felony and in illinois you can make an arrest for probable cause. If this all happened immediately and know immediately can you imagine a police officer putting the cuffs on and hauling him off to jail right then. So preposterous it does not warrant further discussion. This happened in September and they filed in January? This is the DA having her hand in this. Those are your facts, your best facts and no grand jury? So you decide to file charges. You hand craft an affidavit. Get the lead investigator to sign it. File with the judge who spends 30 seconds reading it and you have your arrest warrant. But that is not real probable cause. Not grand jury or preliminary hearing probable cause anyway. On the TRO. Smart and here is why. Absolutely no lose. So what has to be proved. Well for starters irreparable harm. Forgot April. Does anyone think this DA would have a problem slow playing this until June, draft time? Irreparable harm is a slam dunk. The university is going to dig their heels in. They have to. They absolutely have to take the position they have the right to discipline as long as not arbitrary and capricious, no violation of constitutional rights including due process etc. Now if this was King Josh by himself that would be a no go but the committee is his due process. This was all good. But there is a difference between challenging the authority of the university and were they right. I concede the process was proper. Proper because criminal charges were filed an arrest warrant issued based on probable cause is another story. I put that whole sordid den of inequality otherwise known as the Douglas County DA office on trial. All they have is that piece of manure charging affidavit. Let's see if an illinois judge thinks that is probable cause. Best shot here. I see no deal. I see no dismissing of the charges here in time to do any good. This is so far outside justice, fair dealing, good faith and whatever else you throw in. Forget jail. Time. Time is what destroys him and she knows it. If the tro is granted it is effective when the ink is dry. He can suit up immediately. The preliminary injunction is likely made permanent in 14 days. She loses and reluctantly I have come to the conclusion that is really what this is all about

+infinity

completely nailed it. awesome analysis

 

[battle]

Man, there are a lot of comments on this thread that are perfect examples of why many sexual assault victims do not report. It’s very sad.

I don’t know if this is a legitimate sexual assault or not. None of us do. But some people need to better educate themselves on the myriad of ways that real victims respond in different circumstances. Just because a victim does not respond the way that you think they should, does not mean that an assault didn’t happen.

Again, I truly hope that an assault did not occur in this instance. False accusations really do exist, and it is awful when it happens. But unfortunately, it is far more common for an assault to occur, and the victim not be believed or for the victim to be so scared that they don’t even report.

yes there are a lot of comments illustrating this, but since yesterday many comments are dismayed at the incompetence and failure of the LPD and DA to interview, ask important detailed questions, interview the person in the arms of the accused and the person standing next to accused during the alleged incident, .... , gather evidence (or even their ability to document evidence) necessary to bring and support charges.

 

[PlayDeeBrownNote]

yes there are a lot of comments illustrating this, but since yesterday many comments are dismayed at the incompetence and failure of the LPD and DA to interview, ask important detailed questions, interview the person in the arms of the accused and the person standing next to accused during the alleged incident, .... , gather evidence (or even their ability to document evidence) necessary to bring and support charges.

They’re not talking about those comments. The poster is clearly talking about people saying things like “my wife would know what to do in this situation” and other comments that insinuate it is a victim’s responsibility to not get sexually assaulted. This kind of dialogue is exactly why victims choose not to report what has happened to them — they fear they will not be believed or that it’s their own fault. Some of these comments may have well asked “what was she wearing when the incident happened?”

Is this virtue signaling? If it is, I really don’t care.

 

[Joel Goodson]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1744528586151719034

 

[LJ22]

An intoxicated young man publicly groping a woman is a clear way of describing an allegation for which a potentially life- and career-altering punishment is unfair and excessive.

Couldn't disagree more. As we see here, "groping" can fit the legal definition of rape. If you don't want the life- and career-altering punishment, don't grope someone.

(Note, I'm not referring to this case specifically.)

 

[NarrowJ]

There’s a lot of comments on this board about a specific incident, which according to the….victims own statement…are perfect examples of young men getting railroaded by an imperfect system that is weighted heavily towards….victims statements
This is not to say it shouldn’t be weighted heavily towards victims and their statements, but the social pendulum has swung so far that it is far too easy to see proposed justice run amok, because of that imperfect system.

There is also a lot of virtue signaling that conveniently pounces on these incidents.

Let this incident, and others, stand on its own merit rather than trying to lump it in as some example of a much larger problem that….according to video and the victims own statements….is much different, and way worse than what we are dealing with in this case.

Same guy you're responding to accused me of "victim blaming" for asking the same questions TSJ's attorneys are asking. Just going to have to accept there will be holier than though white knighting from some. Doubt he believes himself.

Dan (or whomever is responsible, he can't be on here 24/7) is doing a good job moderating these threads. There have been some questionable comments, but they've been very few and far between, and asking some of the questions we are (and that the attorney's are asking) is completely valid and should be expected.

 

[Goatsmilk]

Team - I believe the TRO is only for 2 weeks (give or take), after that, can it be renewed?

 

[skyIdub]

Nah, Sky, I agree with you on a lot of things but not here. Many, many comments on this board have been general and, frankly, obtuse statements about rape accusations. I read more than a few posts about how this couldn't have occurred because, "someone they know wouldn't have reacted that way," or, "they can't possibly see how this could happen." That isn't virtue signaling and to be blunt, the whole "virtue signaling" thing is bulls$#!.

I don't think there is a single person on this board that doesn't wish for this for this incident to not have occurred. What many of us point out is that there have been a lot of gross statements here. I have said it before and I'll say it again: it is okay to want TJ to be innocent and not say awful things about the accuser or women in general.

Lol..that's ok, I rarely post serious stuff here! We are probably closer in agreement than you might think.

My post is mostly geared towards the post I quoted just cautioning against using this case as an example vs. more obviously serious cases. Not that this case isn't serious. This is based off of the information we now have as opposed assumptions to early on...when most of the obtuse comments you are referring to were opined.

Now I reluctantly continue to be serious....and a white man reluctantly commenting on a "rape" or "sexual abuse" case.....but don't worry I will return to SOP Schadenfreude ASAP!

As for the virtue signaling...those obtuse posts you are referring to aren't actually the virtue signaling...and it's definitely not "bulls$#t". The virtue signaling is in the posts where "we" try to appear righteous...virtuous..."above board" because we (particularly white males) are not the victim, can't possibly understand what it's like, and we are not supposed to comment...but many do anyway...usually independent of actual facts or evidence....usually early on in these incidents. It is the social pendulum I spoke of that creates the immediate backlash towards the accused sometimes void of any substance or evidence. Put simply....socially guilty before any chance to prove innocence.

It's like most things these days where a moderate "happy middle" can't exist because both sides are loud, obnoxious and intolerant of anything other than their view.

And of course there shouldn't be "awful" things said about women or the accuser....but I haven't really seen anything specifically "awful" towards either here. Maybe I've glazed over some....because the majority of posts is just rehashing the same thoughts and questions over and over.

 

[aaeismacgychel]

Nah, Sky, I agree with you on a lot of things but not here. Many, many comments on this board have been general and, frankly, obtuse statements about rape accusations. I read more than a few posts about how this couldn't have occurred because, "someone they know wouldn't have reacted that way," or, "they can't possibly see how this could happen." That isn't virtue signaling and to be blunt, the whole "virtue signaling" thing is bulls$#!.

I don't think there is a single person on this board that doesn't wish for this for this incident to not have occurred. What many of us point out is that there have been a lot of gross statements here. I have said it before and I'll say it again: it is okay to want TJ to be innocent and not say awful things about the accuser or women in general.

For the most part I agree with you, and this brings back memories of the times I was a juror. While I know most people do anything they can to avoid jury duty, I personally think it's one of the most important and educational experiences one can ever hand, as you realize very quickly how fallible some of the jurors are to their own preconceived biases. I think the problem here is people are jumping to the end "verdict" and using that as their interpretation of intention, but there's more nuance than that.

What I mean by that is let's break it down question by question:

1. Is it possible that based on her account, the accuser was groped that night and sexually assaulted? In my opinion, yes, it's possible. It's a crowded bar, people have been drinking. This is not unheard of.

2. Is it possible the accuser froze, unable to move. Yes, it is not uncommon for someone quickly subjected to a traumatic event to freeze

3. Is it possible the accuser tried reconstructing the event, and tried doing her own investigation into who she remembered at the bar who was close to where this happened by looking up pictures of athletes, and trying to get an understanding of what constitutes sexual assault? I can absolutely see many people trying to do that.

So based on those 3 questions and answers, unless there's clear evidence that shows she purposefully filed this charge for ulterior motives, I think the "false" or "fraudulent" charge talk can be put to rest. However, this doesn't mean that her account can't be mistaken or that TSJ is wrongfully accused.

And if we ask similar questions regarding TSJ as the probable assailant based on her account

1. Did the accuser have a good look at the assailant? No. Per her own admission, it was a dark crowded bar and her back was turned. It's not unusual in sexual assault cases especially where drugs or alcohol are involved, the victim goes back to their most vivid memory from around the time of the event. In this case, per her words, the attractive man on the other end of the bar she was walking towards.

2. Is it probable TSJ was physically able to commit the crime as described? While it's possible, the logistics of it including his height and that he was already distracted with another woman on his arm makes this not only not probable but possibly even unlikely

3. Is there anyone else who could have had reasonable opportunity to assault the accuser at the time of the crime? Yes, her back was turned in a dark and crowded bar. Even if TSJ was in her most immediate vicinity, the people standing right next to them would have the opportunity, and there would be no easy way to distinguish who it was due to the visibility issue.

Based on those questions, it seems easily apparent that there is a lot of reasonable doubt that TSJ committed this crime if we take the accuser at their word. So from a verdict standpoint, unless additional information becomes available, it does appear that at worst TSJ is not guilty of all crimes, and it's not improbable he's innocent or did any wrongdoing whatsoever.

Really, unless there's any credible testimony or evidence we haven't seen yet, it's just an abuse of justice that TSJ was charged. But he sure wouldn't be the first black man in Kansas who would be able to say that...

 

[ChiefRocky]

Team - I believe the TRO is only for 2 weeks (give or take), after that, can it be renewed?

10 days is what I believe I saw last night.