He's still on the roster on the website, he's on scholarship, has more access than a regular student so IMO he's still representing the university. Optics aside, he's less of a threat to the public if he's playing under certain parameters, e.g. supervision on road games while the case is playing out. I guess, I just don't buy that they're protecting anyone from a physical threat if he plays.
TSJ Thread
- Status
You’re right on the money. If he did tell the UI he did have consensual contact with this accuser, no way the uI could do anything bust suspend him.
Big Jack
- Decatur
Just let this comment sink in for a couple of minutes before reacting. There might just be a reason this avenue was taken and/or maybe suggested by certain people not inside TJ legal staff and or himself. Besides the charges going away, what is the single easiest way to get him back on the court after the panel voted to uphold the suspension? IMHO Josh and Brad want him back enough to plant this thought into their heads. Time will tell but I expect the TRO to be granted and TJ back with the team as early as Sunday.
50+1 is a preponderance if the evidence, not probable cause, which is whether there are facts that would lead a reasonably prudent person to believe an offense was committed. It is more than a reasonable articulable suspicion, but less than a preponderance.It's *possible* I guess. There are two ways of looking at it. The first is that all you really have to do in an affidavit or complaint is establish probable cause (the 'more likely than not' 50+1 standard). The other way of looking at it is that you jam all the info in there that you can to make your case as strong as possible. I knew prosecutors who would have complaints that were a paragraph long and some that had complaints that were pages and pages long (in Wisconsin, we would do complaints and preliminary hearings as opposed to grand juries and indictments).
I was a little bit in between, where I wouldn't put EVERYTHING in there but I'd make sure I had my bases covered. And honestly, I don't know why anyone wouldn't err on the side of too much info without overloading it.
So yes, it is possible but it would seem strange, given the high profile, to hold that sort of evidence back.
I wouldn't want to speculate but...I am going to speculate LOL. I suspect the case is crap.
well that's pretty absurd. You can only come up with two scenarios?
How about, he touched her, she kissed back for two or three minutes, he then grabbed her a$$ and she said no and he stopped.
A couple hundred other possible scenarios.
Isn't that kind of the point of this panel though? Otherwise, you would just have a black and white rule. If you get charged of a crime, you're indefinitely suspended. If you get convicted or plead guilty to any charge, you're kicked off the team.
It's just my opinion that there is enough evidence/ lack of evidence that would bring doubt to him being convicted. and if that's the case then the university SHOULD unsuspend him, and if there is new evidence, then they can re-suspend him
My guess is that the panel was intended to cover situations where there are questionable pending charges of a lesser nature, such as an assault that was actually self-defense or a petty theft that can be chalked up (accurately or inaccurately) to a misunderstanding. While the allegations here might be just as questionable, the fact that there’s a literal rape charge likely makes the panel extremely reluctant to step in.
How do you think the Chicago/national media would cover the scenario you proposed, where the school lifts the suspension, then re-suspends after getting more information? Would Whitman still be AD after that?
It's just my opinion that there is enough evidence/ lack of evidence that would bring doubt to him being convicted. and if that's the case then the university SHOULD unsuspend him, and if there is new evidence, then they can re-suspend him
My guess is that the panel was intended to cover situations where there are questionable pending charges of a lesser nature, such as an assault that was actually self-defense or a petty theft that can be chalked up (accurately or inaccurately) to a misunderstanding. While the allegations here might be just as questionable, the fact that there’s a literal rape charge likely makes the panel extremely reluctant to step in.
How do you think the Chicago/national media would cover the scenario you proposed, where the school lifts the suspension, then re-suspends after getting more information? Would Whitman still be AD after that?
I guess at the end of the day, everything that has occurred from Dec 28 - today feels like the right move on all accounts. It’s frustrating time wise but all “part of the process”
In the end, probably people at Illinois on both ends of the spectrum. But I think the policy served its purpose, gave you coverage that you have zero tolerance for sexual assault...if court says you can't suspend and overrules it doesn't mean the policy is garbage, you sell it as an adjustment to policy or changes to guidelines on how the panel evaluates the decision, maybe athlete gets opportunity to state his case. Much easier sell when you have a court order telling you that can't suspend him than the university trying to explain why you let him play to people who are on the guilty until proven innocent side.
You go back to Whitman's press conference & there was a lot of dancing on why he wasn't suspended earlier when they first heard something. Josh did a great job handling that, but felt like the shark's were circling looking for blood. Policy seems to have done a good job protecting the university & if court says he should not be suspended while this plays out it gives the university the same coverage.
Let's assume the Federal Court grants TSJ's Motion for Temporary Restraining Order on January 12th or soon after. The relief sought is to enjoin (prohibit) the University from continuing TSJ's suspension until he "receives a fair process" and to require the University to immediately reinstate TSJ to the team. The University could technically reinstate TSJ pending additional investigation and processes by the OSCR / DIA, but nothing about such an order would require putting TSJ on the court in games. And I struggle to see the University playing TSJ while the criminal charges are pending. I have no insider information, I'm just an attorney who is giving my thoughts on the potential implications of the Court granting the TRO.
BirdDog9048
The Chief Lives
- Chicago, IL
He also explicitly mentioned TJ's due process rights and presumption of innocence, both of which seem to actually be missing from the policy as executed currently.
I don't like the ease with which she claims to have approached while simultaneously (or at least within the next 60 seconds ) not being able to retreat due to the crowd.
I actually wondered the same thing.
What if TSJ had some type of consensual interaction with the other female he had an arm around (as mentioned by the accuser) or another separate female.
IF that was the case, and he later found out from LPD that someone was accusing him of assault, his first inclination would be that it was the female he had an interaction with (not the accuser in this case).
My one question is: whether or not there was any epithelial DNA found on the accusers underwear that was taken into evidence?
That’s something that hasn’t been addressed to my knowledge.
Are we also to assume a Federal Judge doesn't see through the tactics of a shadow suspension, and consider not playing an All-American candidate whom the program featured prior to the suspension as contempt of court?
FIFY
When will this craziness end? When will the falsehoods be exposed? When will this fine young man get his life back? She should do the right thing, recant, and say she did this all for a publicity stunt. This has gotten out of hand and needs to be shut down now!
in a situation where shannon's suspension is overturned, he plays the rest of the season starting with sunday and illinois wins the big ten and/or goes to the elite eight,
and then shannon is later found guilty or takes a plea bargain or any outcome other than the case being dismissed or a not guilty verdict
would you be proud of what happened?
the above scenario would in essence be josh whitman, brad underwood and the whole program vouching for his innocence. if that happens, they'd better be right.
and then shannon is later found guilty or takes a plea bargain or any outcome other than the case being dismissed or a not guilty verdict
would you be proud of what happened?
the above scenario would in essence be josh whitman, brad underwood and the whole program vouching for his innocence. if that happens, they'd better be right.
Just win baby!
This is where everything starts to go sideways. The institution would creating a dangerous environment ONLY IF an accused person affiliated with that institution HAS/HAD COMMITTED a crime.
Every single player (and person) on Campus (including teachers, admins and all forms of support staff) can potentially commit a dangerous crime or be a danger to the school at any moment. So how in the name of fairness can ‘Everyone’ always be adjudged ‘Guilty all the time!’ without any yet proof of any crime actually being committed?
As many have stated... we get the logic behind an institution being overly cautious from both a legal and public relations standpoint. But this trampling all over the belief that one is innocent until proven guilty just doesn’t pass the smell test at all.
What would an accused have to do during the ‘process’? Claim and charge the purported victim also has having committed a crime against HIM to even the score and muddy the water? And does that mean, ‘A Tie Goes To The Runner’?
Maybe when this is over, Shannon just says 'I've had it with basketball! I'm going to become an attorney (or a Judge) instead... The Legal System needs my help way more than any basketball team! I'm trading one Court for the Other!'.
GrayGhost77
- Centennial, CO
I remember a Judge Yates who used to post on IL regularly back in the early days of this board (UI grad who serves as a judge in Michigan). Would love to hear him weigh in on this whole thing.
And then how many millions would the university have to pay TSJ when he sues because they didn't play one of the best players in the country, he didn't get his all american, and didn't get drafted.
The charging documents are the worst possible case as to what happened.
I am a tie goes to the credible accuser sort of person and what is described is gross, but it's at best extremely improbable that it occurred without any corroboration.
How did he get her number?
If the TRO is granted by the court, TSJ will absolutely play.
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