TSJ Thread

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#526      
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#527      
in a situation where shannon's suspension is overturned, he plays the rest of the season starting with sunday and illinois wins the big ten and/or goes to the elite eight,

and then shannon is later found guilty or takes a plea bargain or any outcome other than the case being dismissed or a not guilty verdict

would you be proud of what happened?

the above scenario would in essence be josh whitman, brad underwood and the whole program vouching for his innocence. if that happens, they'd better be right.
Doesn't change anything for me. Illinois is not the judge and jury here, nor should they be, they make a decision based on what we know & within legal system on what you can and can't do & either way a decision comes later that you can't know with certainty. hindsight is all 20/20, if he is convicted in this case, it is the same stain either way in my mind.
 
#528      
Just read the article and both sides of this story. There are so many holes in this story that we should not be here at this point. And that is not even taking into account of the DA's past

What's your gut feeling? Is the TRO the only chance TSJ will get to play this year? What does the AD/Staff think about this whole process?

It had seem the AD/Staff and TSJ camp were on the same page? Do you feel like that is still the case?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, just so much has came out recently it just raised a bunch of questions for me.
 
#529      
I remember this show. I searched for "Grinder" on my phone and that brings up some interesting browsing. IANAL.

amy poehler google GIF
 
#530      
How did he get her number?
Insta DMs maybe? It was previously mentioned that this girl is known for this type of thing and Bill Self told his players to stay away from her (no idea if that is true or not), so they may know who she is.

But either way, we know for sure he was under questioning by police so we have no idea what he admitted to them during those discussions.
 
#531      
I don't like the ease with which she claims to have approached while simultaneously (or at least within the next 60 seconds ) not being able to retreat due to the crowd.
How did she "know" it was her he was even "making eye contact" with? And why would she even respond to that seeing how TSJ had another girl on his arm? whole thing seems weird to me
 
#532      
How does one have his arm around another female as she told the detective, yet used his hands to grab her?
 
#533      
What is the deadline for the University to file their response to TJ's motion? Soon, I think. We can probably make a better guess as to the outcome of the TRO hearing once the IL hive mind has had a chance to read both pleadings.
 
#534      
My one question is: whether or not there was any epithelial DNA found on the accusers underwear that was taken into evidence?

That’s something that hasn’t been addressed to my knowledge.
I think the DA would have lead with that, if it existed.
 
#535      
I don't like the ease with which she claims to have approached while simultaneously (or at least within the next 60 seconds ) not being able to retreat due to the crowd.
and if you look at her statement, she has him with McCullar and J Harmon. In her statement, she said TJ was with a KU player she recognized and the guy with TJ in the Instagram pic. Neither McCullar or Harmon saw anything. This whole case seems like complete BS.
 
#537      
...all you really have to do in an affidavit or complaint is establish probable cause (the 'more likely than not' 50+1 standard).
...it is possible but it would seem strange, given the high profile, to hold that sort of evidence back...
50+1 is a preponderance if the evidence, not probable cause, which is whether there are facts that would lead a reasonably prudent person to believe an offense was committed. It is more than a reasonable articulable suspicion, but less than a preponderance.
Thanks for your input. I guess that leaves me where I started, meaning I think the case doesn't appear strong at this point, and I'd like to believe TSJ's camp that it's ridiculous, but I'll have to wait and see before passing judgment either way.

Unfortunately the rumors made me think the case was even weaker, so I'm not inclined to believe everything I hear in his favor. I was expecting some convoluted claim of misrepresentation, or an accusation that was inconsistent with video/gps, or anything else that could get the case thrown out or clear his name and lift the suspension. Given that the case seems very plausible to me, I hope TSJ has something that truly exonerates him, not just reasonable doubt in a he-said/she-said situation.

I'm also curious: if the court merely requires the university to give him the opportunity to defend himself against the suspension, what would his lawyers say? Is it possible they have exonerating evidence that they would present to the university in private that they don't want to reveal publicly for some reason? It seems strange that they wouldn't want to publicly clear his name ASAP (or alternatively that they would risk revealing something in private if they didn't want it to get out before the trial), but IANAL. But if all they have to lean on is reasonable doubt against the public charges, I don't see much hope of the university lifting the suspension, especially since the university can't presume to know everything that the DA knows.
 
#538      
Insta DMs maybe?
So, you are suggesting that famous person answers one of his hundreds of DMs received that day assuming he even wastes his time on "Insta" and then texts with this unknown person about an intimate encounter? Ever watch "Cat Fishing The Show" on MTV?
 
#539      
I don't like the ease with which she claims to have approached while simultaneously (or at least within the next 60 seconds ) not being able to retreat due to the crowd.
That article is a joke. The reporter could have looked at some of the publicly available information. She looked at social media pics and in the filings she says that looks like him so she isn't sure. No finger is going anywhere with closed legs. This is fishy.
 
#541      

illinifan31

Former Krush Cow
South Bend, IN
Insta DMs maybe? It was previously mentioned that this girl is known for this type of thing and Bill Self told his players to stay away from her (no idea if that is true or not), so they may know who she is.

But either way, we know for sure he was under questioning by police so we have no idea what he admitted to them during those discussions.
I have seen 0 verification of this other than 1 poster here with limited post history who said he heard it second hand. It wasn't even one of our insiders. I've pretty much dismissed this as made up/inaccurate. Nobody ever confirmed it and the rumor took off from there. We aren't even allowing this on reddit anymore cause it's so fringe and unverified.
 
#542      
Just read the article and both sides of this story. There are so many holes in this story that we should not be here at this point. And that is not even taking into account of the DA's past
Can you elaborate, or is your statement based on things you know that are still private?
 
#543      
I think it comes down to did TSJ admit to consensually having sexual contact with her (he may have already admitted this via texts to the girl, police interviews, etc. and it’s not public)

If he did, then there are 2 potential scenarios:
1. TSJ called the girl over, who told him to touch her for 5 seconds, and then left right away
2. TSJ committed the crime

As much as it pains me to say, scenario 2 seems very feasible if he admits contact occurred, to the point you cannot reinstate him until the trial is completed.
The problem is that it proves nothing of he admits it and says it was consensual. And how do you insert your finger into a standing females gg? It makes absolutely no sense. Sounds more like she may have been hurt she wasn't chosen.
 
#544      
"The woman told police that the interaction took less than a minute and that the physical contact lasted for about 30 seconds"

I thought she said they "didn't talk or have any interactions at all" and that the touching occurred for "5-10 seconds" according to the affidavit ?
The affidavit says the accuser "stated the physical contact lasted only approximately 30 seconds". It says the accuser "stated she guessed the entire encounter was approximately one minute long." It also says the accuser "stated she did not speak with the male at all, or have any other interactions with him" (emphasis mine). The 5-10 seconds timing comes from how long she claim his finger was inside her.

It's hard enough to keep the facts straight with all the new info flying around. It would probably be best if we can refrain from putting statements in quotes when we are just guessing from memory what was said.
 
#546      
Let's assume the Federal Court grants TSJ's Motion for Temporary Restraining Order on January 12th or soon after. The relief sought is to enjoin (prohibit) the University from continuing TSJ's suspension until he "receives a fair process" and to require the University to immediately reinstate TSJ to the team. The University could technically reinstate TSJ pending additional investigation and processes by the OSCR / DIA, but nothing about such an order would require putting TSJ on the court in games. And I struggle to see the University playing TSJ while the criminal charges are pending. I have no insider information, I'm just an attorney who is giving my thoughts on the potential implications of the Court granting the TRO.
If he is reinstated by the court and it is perceived that Underwood and Whitman cooked up a scheme whereby Shannon does not see the floor, the mutiny on this team will be so final that the rest of the season will be played by a pick-up team gathered from the IMPE. Not only that but if it is thought that Shannon was left out to slowly twist in the wind your ability to recruit players for the future will be so debilitating as to render Illinois basketball as irrelevant almost overnight. Kids, the eyes of the basketball community are looking to see if we are going to stand behind a team member. What an overzealous Kansas DA has to do with how we are thought of is inconsequential. If he is reinstated he will play or there will be hell to pay. Remember, all of the players that are on the roster right now can transfer without penalty. The buzzards are and will be circling to take advantage. Be careful!
 
#547      
I'm not sure how the texts rumor could be true if they had no interaction outside of the 30-45 seconds mentioned in the affidavit. Only thing I could see is if she tracked down TSJ on Instagram and messaged him there, and then TSJ engaged/responded. If there was any exchange of numbers during the actual incident, it would draw the
you ain't a lawyer who practices in her jurisdiction
What is being missed is a federal judge has two law clerks. A very prestigious position. The best and the brightest. She will have the law and the legal issues dialed. What she does with it is another story
 
#548      
"The woman told police that the interaction took less than a minute and that the physical contact lasted for about 30 seconds"

I thought she said they "didn't talk or have any interactions at all" and that the touching occurred for "5-10 seconds" according to the affidavit ?
"[Reporting officer] asked if there was any action of hers or statement she made that may have led the male to believe she was okay with him touching her in this way. [She] stated there was not. [She] stated she did not speak with the male at all, or have any other interactions with him."
She was establishing that there were no other interactions besides what she had already reported, especially one that would have given him the idea she was OK with what he did.

She said the entire encounter was 1 minute, the physical contact (when he pulled her to him until she moved away) lasted for about 30s, and the "male's finger was [censored] approximately five to ten seconds". There's some possible discrepancy between the 1min and 30s statements since she said he pulled her in when she got close, but it would be reasonable that 1min is from when she started walking over or something like that.
 
#549      
50+1 is a preponderance if the evidence, not probable cause, which is whether there are facts that would lead a reasonably prudent person to believe an offense was committed. It is more than a reasonable articulable suspicion, but less than a preponderance.
You are correct as preponderance of the evidence goes both ways. DA Valdez is not flying out with the accuser. Most of the bickering is going to be about the authority the committee process and due process for Shannon. So we have an affidavit used as probable cause to issue an arrest warrant versus likely live witnesses, probably people who were there who will testify they saw nothing then you trot out Shannon who denies everything followed by a tearful finish saying I do not want my life ruined for something I didn't do. Credible is also called credibility
 
#550      
My concern was the previous mention of “the act was consensual” we saw from insiders which indicated that some sort of contact occurred between the two. Or another thing that I took away from some of the info that has come out was that TSJ didn’t know who the accuser was and maybe the assumption was a different female he did have consensual contact with accused him. Again, all speculation on my part
I think the latter makes sense.
 
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