TSJ Thread

[21ChampaignSt]

This is Illinois. If it's a coin flip we already know it's flicking us directly in the nuts.

Too soon.

 

[jeremyninnes]

We will see. The preliminary hearing will very likely happen in a couple of weeks, whether or not the TRO is granted. People in the know seem to think the TRO is a coin flip-could go either way. I think he has a pretty good argument but we will see

Thank you @LvilleILL

 

[SuperintendentChalmers]

Due process, as a protection provided by the Constitution, goes beyond the three examples you cited. More generally, due process as part of the 14th amendment prohibits the state from depriving any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

During my Constitutional Law class with Professor Novak at U of I in the mid nineties, we even talked about due process rights in connection with the infliction of corporal punishment by a public school official, relative to a school child's constitutional rights.

The Supreme Court in Ingraham v. Wright held that due process rights did not apply in cases of public school corporal punishment. Though you can make a better case for it in regard to striking a child than for suspending someone from a basketball team.

 

[s261]

Overall, I can see both sides of the argument. But if TJ is unable to play basketball until this case is over, that’s the equivalent of taking his home. That’ll cost him millions, if not 10s of millions

Can anyone post links to the pleadings filed in this case? I'd like to read both the amended TRO motion and the UIUC response.

 

[Goldtop]

We will see. The preliminary hearing will very likely happen in a couple of weeks, whether or not the TRO is granted. People in the know seem to think the TRO is a coin flip-could go either way. I think he has a pretty good argument but we will see

I have a difficult time thinking in todays cultural climate that a judge will rule to allow a kid to play who is charged with rape. Hope beyond hope that I am wrong.

 

[Illini231]

thought the preliminary hearing was the day we play Michigan?

 

[WhiteHorseWings]

Due process, as a protection provided by the Constitution, goes beyond the three examples you cited. More generally, due process as part of the 14th amendment prohibits the state from depriving any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

During my Constitutional Law class with Professor Novak at U of I in the mid nineties, we even talked about due process rights in connection with the infliction of corporal punishment by a public school official, relative to a school child's constitutional rights.

What a great guy Novak was. I may have sat behind you, listening-ish.

 

[ptgrd23]

Hopefully the judge will include "fairness" as a criteria in making his/her decision on TSJ request for restraining order.

The purpose of restraining order is to prevent and injustice from being done just because the judicial process has not been completed. If TSJ could have his trial next week there would be no need for restraining order.

College athletes who transfer twice can play, for now, after a judge sets aside NCAA transfer rule

College athletes who were denied the chance to play immediately after transferring a second time can return to competition, for now.

apnews.com

 

[s261]

What a great guy Novak was. I may have sat behind you, listening-ish.

I had him in the eighties. Reached out to him for his assistance when I joined with the ACLU in a First Amendment case in Florida. He never called back. Won anyway.

 

[ever]

Overall, I can see both sides of the argument. But if TJ is unable to play basketball until this case is over, that’s the equivalent of taking his home. That’ll cost him millions, if not 10s of millions.

Illinois is an at-will employment state. There are some exceptions (but "suspicion of a crime" is not one of them) and some limitations even outside of those exceptions, and TSJ's situation may or may not be considered employment. TSJ's argument w.r.t. UIUC is much more nuanced than "everyone who faces financial hardship if fired/suspended should have due process".

 

[brillinian]

I have a question for those that know the rules more than myself. If TSJ's case isn't dropped or finalized before the end of the season AND if his TRO is denied and the panel doesn't reinstate him on their own, could he actually transfer to another school that would accept him even with the case still lingering and allow him to play there?

 

[ugottabjoshinme]

I have a question for those that know the rules more than myself. If TSJ's case isn't dropped or finalized before the end of the season AND if his TRO is denied and the panel doesn't reinstate him on their own, could he actually transfer to another school that would accept him even with the case still lingering and allow him to play there?

He cannot transfer and play right away.

 

[Retro62]

Will this case, the suspension, and TRO result establish another Illinois rule? Albeit one that is not an official rule, but rather a precedent that others can use?

 

[Actually...]

I am so tired of the all or nothing people. You can create policies that are better suited for situations like this. The current policies are reactionary to behaviors and policies that ignored bad behavior and in some circumstances covered up. Policies like that are wrong as well. You can't tell me there is not a better way.

Are you advocating for a PreCrime policy?

 

[Snoopy]

The Supreme Court in Ingraham v. Wright held that due process rights did not apply in cases of public school corporal punishment. Though you can make a better case for it in regard to striking a child than for suspending someone from a basketball team.

My (not a lawyer) reading of the TRO is it is claiming congress via title IX extended the right to due process to athletes at schools receiving federal funding. Thus TJ is entitled to due process. It makes a separate contractual claim due to the scholarship paperwork he signed.

 

[Actually...]

The way our legal system works is that a defendant cannot be imprisoned until a conviction occurs. They can face countless other negative consequences based merely on a charge, such as job loss, and there’s no constitutional protection for that.

The way our legal system works they can spend weeks, months or even years in jail awaiting trial

(I hope I'm differentiating between jail and prison correctly)

 

[OU_Illini]

UofI hasn't filed its response to the TRO yet. Maybe it will forget to and say aw shucks, I guess TSJ can play tonight...

 

[BryceHopkins]

I've seen it reported elsewhere that Judge Hawley is hearing the case tomorrow. Wondering if that's accurate and, if so, did Judge Lawless recuse herself?

 

[sacraig]

The University will always have its own interest top of mind in any decision they make, whether it's a potential first-round NBA pick, or an employee posting about free food on campus.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1745155001108877788

 

[CharliedonSurf]

I've seen it reported elsewhere that Judge Hawley is hearing the case tomorrow. Wondering if that's accurate and, if so, did Judge Lawless recuse herself?

It looks like the chief judge reassigned the case to magistrate judge Hawley for further proceedings. Hopefully the hearing will still proceed tomorrow.

 

[Roundball Sage]

The policy is garbage if you persecute the innocent as well as the guilty. If he loses. This won't help the school from being sued. The issue is that the Lawrence prosecutor should have done a much better job and worked with the uofi to get more information. At this point. There is nothing really tying him to her.

A simple solution to this messy situation is to simply do away with the entire notion of 'Innocent until proven Guilty'. That solves everything! Shannon understands he is ‘guilty’ and doesn’t fight it. ‘The Policy’ is firmly verified as being totally fair and Constitutionally correct. The accuser’s bar of ‘proof’ just a whole lot easier. And the jury and Judge’s job becomes a breeze. Just is not good for viewing for Court TV -- not enough drama.

Look, I’m not trying to make light of serious situation. Just pointing out that something in this process needs to be corrected for true fairness to ALL parties. Is the accuser being deprived of living her life as Shannon is? Or anyone in the ‘big office’?

There’s lots of attorneys in the State of Illinois. SOMEONE must have a better idea of how to handle this kind of situation.

 

[s261]

I've seen it reported elsewhere that Judge Hawley is hearing the case tomorrow. Wondering if that's accurate and, if so, did Judge Lawless recuse herself?

Hawley is referred Magistrate Judge hearing case. Lawless is the assigned Judge

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

One thing we can hopefully all agree on…

I wish these charges would just be dropped already. Even the most cautious to defend TSJ’s innocence would have to admit that the evidence so far isn’t exactly convincing…

Not sure if this is a legal possibility, but ideally TSJ comes to a financial agreement with the DA ASAP that involves no legal guilt. In the long run, whatever price he’d pay (within reason) to end this sham would still have him coming out with a positive NPV in the long run with how well he’s playing.

 

[OU_Illini]

I've seen it reported elsewhere that Judge Hawley is hearing the case tomorrow. Wondering if that's accurate and, if so, did Judge Lawless recuse herself?

Judge Hawley is the Magistrate Judge. Judge Lawless is still the presiding Judge. Each case in Federal Court has a presiding Judge and a Magistrate Judge. A lot of times preliminary motions and matters before trial are referred to the Magistrate Judge, so it is possible Judge Hawley is presiding over the hearing on the TRO tomorrow.

 

[BlueLeader]

We will see. The preliminary hearing will very likely happen in a couple of weeks, whether or not the TRO is granted. People in the know seem to think the TRO is a coin flip-could go either way. I think he has a pretty good argument but we will see

Nationally, I think there's way to much interested clout to allow precedence to be set here in Shannon's favor.