TSJ Thread

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#226      

SuperintendentChalmers

SuperintendentChalmers
SuperintendentChalmers
mrh vet said:
The Duke lacrosse players had a great case against nifong and Durham County. They did not have anywhere near as strong a case against Duke. Without knowing all the facts a reasonable conclusion the cases would be similar if everything goes Shannon's way. The settlement was confidential but there is plenty of talk out there the number Duke paid was 60M. 20M per player
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Except for the allegation of sexual abuse against an athlete, the cases have nothing in common in terms of university legal liablity.

For one, Duke knew that the accuser's story had fallen apart during her examination (which showed no rape) at the Duke Medical Center. Also:

Duke's faculty and leadership made public and off-the-record comments asserting that the players were guilty.
Duke violated the students' FERPA (privacy) rights by secretly giving Nifong keycard information while saying publicly that they didn't.
Duke canceled the lacrosse season and fired the team's coach, indicating that all were responsible in some way for the alleged crime
In fact, Duke's AD told the players that he believed they were innocent, but that he canceled the season due to outside pressures.
Duke created a committee and commissioned a report to investigate misconduct by lacrosse players
Faculty members put "Wanted" posters around the campus with players' photos on them
Duke's spokesperson told reporters that several of the lacrosse players were "bad actors"
Duke faculty members trashed the fired lacrosse coach, leading him to file a defamation suit
Duke faculty members continued to make public statements claiming players were guilty even after the charges were dismissed

TSJ might be completely innocent as the Duke lacrosse players were, but there is nothing at all similar at this point about the two schools' responses.
 
#227      

HereSoIDontGetFined

H
HereSoIDontGetFined
JSpence said:
Thanks for the argument. I've trusted that there is some subtlety in the scope of Title IX that makes this all workable beyond discrimination. If there's not, and this comes down to the legal system inserting themselves into a school policy, then I'd need someone to explain to me how this isn't a stunt.

That's not to say that TJ isn't being harmed, but that his beef unfortunately wouldn't be with the University.
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His Title IX argument seems very weak anyway. They sent an employee of the University with him and therefore that makes his trip an official action by the University which means HUGE LEAP he's being discriminated against?

If anything, the fact that the University sent someone with him at all gives the complete opposite impression. I get the sense Genesis Bryant wouldn't be afforded the same courtesy.
 
#230      

DJM

D
DJM
SkyysNotFalling said:
Usually there’s many hearings all put together for time slot. So there could be 30+ hearings for the 1:30 docket and they go numerically in order from the case #
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pretty familiar with that specific court and there are very rarely that many cases set at the same time.
 
#233      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
Second place is 1st loser said:
... from a PURE BASKETBALL standpoint (human reality aside)....time is going by quickly...
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It’s time for us to get a little selfish here. By us, I mean Illini Nation.

We know that Shannon is potentially being ‘damaged’ with this process.

We know that the alleged victim claims some form of being ‘damaged’.

We know the U is protecting itself from being ‘damaged’.

BUT... what about US? That vast and energetic and roundball-loving group of Orange Ball Lovers lovingly known as Illini Nation? WE are being damaged... regardless of which party eventually prevails in this case.

We are being deprived of watching one of the best players (home grown!) who ever put on that glorious uniform during the very short window we have to see him bring his court magic to the Prairie State. WE are being damaged here. Every single minute he's not on the 'right' court. And we won’t be getting any restitution because we will be told we have no ‘Standing’ in this case.

This ain’t right. This just ain’t right. And sometimes in Life it’s just totally OK to be selfish. And this feels like one of them.
 
#235      

TheGMan

TheGMan
TheGMan
JSpence said:
Thanks for the argument. I've trusted that there is some subtlety in the scope of Title IX that makes this all workable beyond discrimination. If there's not, and this comes down to the legal system inserting themselves into a school policy, then I'd need someone to explain to me how this isn't a stunt.

That's not to say that TJ isn't being harmed, but that his beef unfortunately wouldn't be with the University.
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I'm not nearly informed enough to make a guess as to the strength of his Title IX argument. However, even if it is weak, doesn't mean it's a stunt. More of a hail mary. Might not work out, but assuming he can afford it (which he likely can), there is really no reason not to try.
 
#237      

Wrightandjohnstreet

W
Wrightandjohnstreet
2qtslow said:
I practiced law for 40+ years.

A basic rule is that you lead with your best argument and spend most of your time on that argument. The first count of TJ's complaint sounds in Title IX, and that is where they spend the bulk of their argument. If they lose on Title IX, IMHO their arguments in the alternative get successively weaker as you go down the list.

Other lawyers have gone into some detail concerning the problems with TJ's Title IX theory, and I think they have it right insofar as they go. But I think UIUC's slam dunk winner argument on Title IX has been ignored so far. Title IX has only one purpose, and that is to prevent sexual discrimination/harassment in college athletics. TJ's complaint does not and cannot allege that he has in any way, shape or form been the victim of sexual discrimination or harassment. Without that premise, I see no way to successfully argue that Title IX has anything to do with this case.
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Correct.
 
#239      

Battle89

Battle89
Battle89
jacekpardol said:
For anyone doubting our insiders. They called this.
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We have an insider on the football forum saying that recruits' parents are calling him after Buh was fired. There's inside and then there's INSIDE.

Perhaps the TSJ thread is not the best place in which to say it that way...I do not intend a double entendre here.
 
#242      

RML

R
RML
Fighter of the Nightman said:
A classic example is if I were to ask you who your heroes are and you respond:

“My dad, Brad Underwood, and my uncle.”

Are you just someone who likes the Oxford Comma? Or are you Tyler Underwood and your two heroes are your dad and your uncle? 🤣😉
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Meh. 😄. As an Oxford comma adherent, if I meant to convey that I had two heros, I would have removed the possible confusion by using parenthesis or em dashes to set "BU" apart. And if I meant I had three heros, I would have removed the possible confusion by listing "my dad" after the "and."
It's not the Oxford comma that's causing the confusion in that example, it's the use of commas to set off parenthetical information in a ist of items that is causing the confusion. Here's another example, "My dad, Brad Underwood, my aunt and my uncle." Left out the Oxford comma, yet the ambiguity remains.
 
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#243      

WeWillWhen

WeWillWhen
WeWillWhen
CoalCity said:
Did they drive on their own?
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Season 9 Nbc GIF by The Office
 
#246      

tatupu70

T
tatupu70
Qwiksilvur said:
But it would harm his pro career. The better he does in college the earlier he may get drafted and obviously the higher you go the better contract you can get. Just as a baseline. So while in the end he may have a successful career, it has the potential to harm his first NBA contract
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But there's no guarantee additional games this year increases his draft position. There is probably a negative correlation between college games played and draft position (for drafted players)
 
#247      

DeonThomas

DeonThomas
South Carolina
DeonThomas
2qtslow said:
I practiced law for 40+ years.

A basic rule is that you lead with your best argument and spend most of your time on that argument. The first count of TJ's complaint sounds in Title IX, and that is where they spend the bulk of their argument. If they lose on Title IX, IMHO their arguments in the alternative get successively weaker as you go down the list.

Other lawyers have gone into some detail concerning the problems with TJ's Title IX theory, and I think they have it right insofar as they go. But I think UIUC's slam dunk winner argument on Title IX has been ignored so far. Title IX has only one purpose, and that is to prevent sexual discrimination/harassment in college athletics. TJ's complaint does not and cannot allege that he has in any way, shape or form been the victim of sexual discrimination or harassment. Without that premise, I see no way to successfully argue that Title IX has anything to do with this case.
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Very clear. And logical. Thanks. (I've pretty much jumped away from the hour-to-hour updates on the case.)
 
#248      

tatupu70

T
tatupu70
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Yep. I distinctly remember Deron Williams’ draft stock exploding between December 2004 and taking the floor in the National Championship in April 2005 … and TSJ has one shot at that. Not saying anything other than what I plainly typed, of course!
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And there are just as many players whose draft stock fell over the same time period.
 
#249      

Ransom Stoddard

Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
Bloomington, IL
Ransom Stoddard
CoalCity said:
Serious question
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I'd be surprised if the university provided transportation to student athletes to a hearing where another student athlete is taking legal action against the university.
And more to the point, it's Springpatch, why wouldn't they drive themselves?
 
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