USC, UCLA to join the Big Ten in 2024

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#1,101      
Pretty sure they're looking to expand the CFP. The main drivers for this realignment is to A. TV Contracts (short term) and B. Get more SEC and in response more B10 teams into the playoff (long term).
The counter scenario would be if the B10 and SEC added conference quarterfinal or semifinal rounds, those in essence are playoff games, just like NFL wild card and divisional playoff rounds. Then the two conference champions meet. Instead of the yearly B10 vs Pac10 Rose Bowl, you have the B10 vs SEC World Bowl. In this scenario, it isn't about more SEC and B10 teams, it is about only SEC and B10 teams. Not saying this will happen, but this is really the main scenario I see that would drive ND into a conference.
 
#1,102      
The counter scenario would be if the B10 and SEC added conference quarterfinal or semifinal rounds, those in essence are playoff games, just like NFL wild card and divisional playoff rounds. Then the two conference champions meet. Instead of the yearly B10 vs Pac10 Rose Bowl, you have the B10 vs SEC World Bowl. In this scenario, it isn't about more SEC and B10 teams, it is about only SEC and B10 teams. Not saying this will happen, but this is really the main scenario I see that would drive ND into a conference.
And, spitballing, maybe a reason to add those west coast schools to generate a national footprint to justify the looming total exclusion of the rest of the sport. Make a bridge CFP deal for now, wait out the ACC grant of rights, and then close the door on the College Football Super League in 2037 with the SEC and B1G as the NFC and AFC.

I say "justify" because the schools left out are going to sue when the day comes. Who the heck knows what comes of that.
 
#1,103      
I think the attractive solution would be:

West-

Illinois
Iowa
KANSAS
KANSAS STATE
Minnesota
MISSOURI
Nebraska
Northwestern
Purdue
Wisconsin


East-

Indiana
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Penn State
PITTSBURGH
SYRACUSE
VIRGINIA
VIRGINIA TECH
WEST VIRGINIA

MD & RU would leave the conference.
 
#1,104      

chiefini

Rockford, Illinois
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#1,105      
I’ve never been a fan of Warren, but his words and tone yesterday about expansion give me hope that he’s not a complete buffoon…
That's funny, I was thinking about the same thing.

In 2020 everybody (correctly, in my view) diagnosed Warren as an empty suit who had no ability beyond the rote recitation of empty platitudes and conventional wisdom and who totally lacked vision and foresight and was thus vulnerable to making huge blunders in the name of play-acting the idea of the Big Ten's haughty Legends and Leaders-y self-righteousness.

And then folks are reading his words around this situation and nodding along like this is perfectly the way they see things too.

I think it's a moment to pause and take a quick look in the mirror if that's you, just saying.

I think the attractive solution would be:

MD & RU would leave the conference.
Now we're talking!
 
#1,106      

pruman91

Paducah, Ky
I’ve never been a fan of Warren, but his words and tone yesterday about expansion give me hope that he’s not a complete buffoon…
kw03.jpg


Buffoonery is an art I have performed for many years , with skill and aplomb galore.................................

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#1,107      

The Galloping Ghost

Washington, DC
I think the attractive solution would be:

West-

Illinois
Iowa
KANSAS
KANSAS STATE
Minnesota
MISSOURI
Nebraska
Northwestern
Purdue
Wisconsin


East-

Indiana
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Penn State
PITTSBURGH
SYRACUSE
VIRGINIA
VIRGINIA TECH
WEST VIRGINIA

MD & RU would leave the conference.
giphy-1.gif

This is my absolute hell. I want no part of any of that.
 
#1,108      

altgeld88

Arlington, Virginia
I'm not Shief, but I'll give my perspective on why I'd enjoy 20 or more teams.

First off, as I've said numerous times on here, I'm not from the midwest. I don't have any geographical allegiance to the midwest. The rivalries I care about aren't because I grew up with fans of other B1G schools. Also, as a note, I graduated in 2007.

As an east coaster, I've always looked at the conference as more of a northern thing than midwest specific. When I started caring about college athletics, Penn State was already a member. For me, growing up in the mid-Atlantic, I looked at a conference that stretched from the east coast to the middle of the country and encompassed all the best schools. It just felt northern and the opposite culturally of the SEC and ACC. Thus, when it came time to add more schools, the additions of Maryland and Rutgers, two more mid-Atlantic schools, just felt obvious. The addition of Nebraska, which, honestly, is no different to me than Iowa, also just felt obvious.

Now, the conference is expanding again to the west. Geographically, I guess the B1G is no longer simply in the northern part of the country. However, I don't really see much of a difference in values between the schools already in the conference and those on the west coast. There's a reason the B1G and the Pac have been so close for so many years. Combining the best schools of the Pac to the B1G is just adding peanut butter to chocolate. It's two good things that work well together.

Look, I know I'm an outlier geographically here. I get that the way I perceive the conference isn't the way most do. Unlike many here, I don't have nostalgia for a midwestern conference. To me, I think the addition of schools with similar values is, frankly, fun and makes sense.

And, more so than anything else, I hate the SEC with a fiery passion and want a juggernaut of a conference to ultimately eclipse them in every conceivable way. Whether the B1G expanding to 20 or 24 teams achieves that goal, I don't know, but to me, it seems like the best shot.
Am very late to this discussion as I spent the early part of the week in (!!) Champaign-Urbana for the first time in 22 yrs, with my phone largely off, wandering around and reveling in what a remarkable, thoroughly kick-a$$ university we're blessed to have affiliation with. Did my heart and soul a wonder of good.

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Midwestern Big Ten originalist. My memories from the age of ~ 5 onward (nearly 52 yrs ago) are rooted in BT football and basketball. It took me 15 years (and finally sitting in Beaver Stadium watching PSU v. Illinois in Sept 2008) to accept PSU as a BT member.

However, I recognized a long while ago that the days I clung fondly to were long, long gone, and the game, conference, and world, had moved on. I'm completely with my DC brother here, @The Galloping Ghost, on the virtue of expansion, as long as it adds schools and programs of high quality.

I had the good fortune to share part of the visit with a fellow Illini brother, and to enjoy his reminiscences. As I wandered through the buildings where I learned and labored ~35 years ago I thought occasionally of the recent USC/UCLA addition. I saw an analogy to various old departmental libraries I used to study in, and classrooms I remembered fondly, which have been reconfigured into different spaces; entire buildings no longer existing; and empty fields now built upon. Lots of physical change, wonderful new facilities, and yet so much history that endures, not only from my recent studenthood, but from a century ago and more. The physical reality I recall may be gone in many places, but I have my memories. The new, and reconfigured old, spaces and buildings are creating memories for the students and faculty there today, and have evolved precisely in order to maintain the excellence of the institution.

Before I departed yesterday, I sat at the top of the east balcony in the stadium, having walked through the east colonnade on my way up there. A WR was down on the field (I believe it was Isaiah Williams) repeatedly running a meticulous 7-12 yard out pattern along the near sideline. He'd marked the cut with small colored cards on the turf. So much history in that stadium, 98 years old this fall, and a talented young man down there on a warm late July morning trying to help build a sustained winning tradition by ensuring every footstep he takes is in the proper place. I completely grooved on that juxtaposition, spanning a century, honoring past and present.

As I noted, it all did my heart and soul a wonder of good. Kevin Warren, much as we mock him, knows what the score is. Let's hope he builds the strongest conference he can. We'll enjoy the product.

Oh, and BTW... we have the most glorious stadium in college football. I've seen a lot of them. Nothing compares.

:illinois::chief::ms:


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1659028544978.png
 
#1,109      

Serious Late

Peoria via Denver via Ann Arbor via Albuquerque vi
I sure hope that the B1G and SEC now understand that it is over, they rule the future of College Athletics and are working together toward a common sense structure moving forward. If they are still two arms flailing to their own beat, that would be worrisome for the length of time it will take to get us where this is ultimately all headed. I am hopeful that is not the case.

With that said, if the rumors around an SEC/B1G playoff have any steam (why wouldn't they), would that then have an impact on the ability of schools in the ACC to get out of their Grant of Rights deal? I would imagine an "ironclad" agreement that is left borderline irrelevant by a complete overhaul of the system this agreement relates to, could be vulnerable to arguments that the entire industry has shifted in such a way as to make the Grant of Rights invalid.

If that is then true, I would hope it would then accelerate the timeline to get us to the endgame here. The 25+ year process we are looking at now is frustrating. As best I can tell, they clearly have the power at this point to rip the band-aid off and get on with it. Announce a partnership, determine the conference sizes (20? 24?), assist the schools you want in the ACC in getting out of their contract, give ND 5 seconds to realize their new fate, and use this as an opportunity to get the CFP organized in time for the next contract.

Not saying this is what I would have wanted for College Sports as it stood 10 years ago, but it is where we are today. Do I have faith in the ability for leaders to reach this conclusion? No, but one can dream.
 
#1,110      

pruman91

Paducah, Ky
Am very late to this discussion as I spent the early part of the week in (!!) Champaign-Urbana for the first time in 22 yrs, with my phone largely off, wandering around and reveling in what a remarkable, thoroughly kick-a$$ university we're blessed to have affiliation with. Did my heart and soul a wonder of good.

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Midwestern Big Ten originalist. My memories from the age of ~ 5 onward (nearly 52 yrs ago) are rooted in BT football and basketball. It took me 15 years (and finally sitting in Beaver Stadium watching PSU v. Illinois in Sept 2008) to accept PSU as a BT member.

However, I recognized a long while ago that the days I clung fondly to were long, long gone, and the game, conference, and world, had moved on. I'm completely with my DC brother here, @The Galloping Ghost, on the virtue of expansion, as long as it adds schools and programs of high quality.

I had the good fortune to share part of the visit with a fellow Illini brother, and to enjoy his reminiscences. As I wandered through the buildings where I learned and labored ~35 years ago I thought occasionally of the recent USC/UCLA addition. I saw an analogy to various old departmental libraries I used to study in, and classrooms I remembered fondly, which have been reconfigured into different spaces; entire buildings no longer existing; and empty fields now built upon. Lots of physical change, wonderful new facilities, and yet so much history that endures, not only from my recent studenthood, but from a century ago and more. The physical reality I recall may be gone in many places, but I have my memories. The new, and reconfigured old, spaces and buildings are creating memories for the students and faculty there today, and have evolved precisely in order to maintain the excellence of the institution.

Before I departed yesterday, I sat at the top of the east balcony in the stadium, having walked through the east colonnade on my way up there. A WR was down on the field (I believe it was Isaiah Williams) repeatedly running a meticulous 7-12 yard out pattern along the near sideline. He'd marked the cut with small colored cards on the turf. So much history in that stadium, 98 years old this fall, and a talented young man down there on a warm late July morning trying to help build a sustained winning tradition by ensuring every footstep he takes is in the proper place. I completely grooved on that juxtaposition, spanning a century, honoring past and present.

As I noted, it all did my heart and soul a wonder of good. Kevin Warren, much as we mock him, knows what the score is. Let's hope he builds the strongest conference he can. We'll enjoy the product.

Oh, and BTW... we have the most glorious stadium in college football. I've seen a lot of them. Nothing compares.

:illinois::chief::ms:


View attachment 18994

View attachment 18995
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89588611113fe15e3735957a1667c353.jpg


PSSSSTTTT.........................Welcome back , my friend ...............................I love to hear from alums going back to the best University in the world .......I became an Illini fanatic at age 5 shooting hoops in my back yard and had the pleasure of going to 4 FB games and attending numerous games at the old Assembly Hall when I was in HS and we would go to the state tourneys in March Madness chaos.......

Go Illini..........................
psyc2.gif


psyc76.gif
 
#1,112      
Am very late to this discussion as I spent the early part of the week in (!!) Champaign-Urbana for the first time in 22 yrs, with my phone largely off, wandering around and reveling in what a remarkable, thoroughly kick-a$$ university we're blessed to have affiliation with. Did my heart and soul a wonder of good.

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Midwestern Big Ten originalist. My memories from the age of ~ 5 onward (nearly 52 yrs ago) are rooted in BT football and basketball. It took me 15 years (and finally sitting in Beaver Stadium watching PSU v. Illinois in Sept 2008) to accept PSU as a BT member.

However, I recognized a long while ago that the days I clung fondly to were long, long gone, and the game, conference, and world, had moved on. I'm completely with my DC brother here, @The Galloping Ghost, on the virtue of expansion, as long as it adds schools and programs of high quality.

I had the good fortune to share part of the visit with a fellow Illini brother, and to enjoy his reminiscences. As I wandered through the buildings where I learned and labored ~35 years ago I thought occasionally of the recent USC/UCLA addition. I saw an analogy to various old departmental libraries I used to study in, and classrooms I remembered fondly, which have been reconfigured into different spaces; entire buildings no longer existing; and empty fields now built upon. Lots of physical change, wonderful new facilities, and yet so much history that endures, not only from my recent studenthood, but from a century ago and more. The physical reality I recall may be gone in many places, but I have my memories. The new, and reconfigured old, spaces and buildings are creating memories for the students and faculty there today, and have evolved precisely in order to maintain the excellence of the institution.

Before I departed yesterday, I sat at the top of the east balcony in the stadium, having walked through the east colonnade on my way up there. A WR was down on the field (I believe it was Isaiah Williams) repeatedly running a meticulous 7-12 yard out pattern along the near sideline. He'd marked the cut with small colored cards on the turf. So much history in that stadium, 98 years old this fall, and a talented young man down there on a warm late July morning trying to help build a sustained winning tradition by ensuring every footstep he takes is in the proper place. I completely grooved on that juxtaposition, spanning a century, honoring past and present.

As I noted, it all did my heart and soul a wonder of good. Kevin Warren, much as we mock him, knows what the score is. Let's hope he builds the strongest conference he can. We'll enjoy the product.

Oh, and BTW... we have the most glorious stadium in college football. I've seen a lot of them. Nothing compares.

:illinois::chief::ms:


View attachment 18994

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#1,113      
Am very late to this discussion as I spent the early part of the week in (!!) Champaign-Urbana for the first time in 22 yrs, with my phone largely off, wandering around and reveling in what a remarkable, thoroughly kick-a$$ university we're blessed to have affiliation with. Did my heart and soul a wonder of good.

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Midwestern Big Ten originalist. My memories from the age of ~ 5 onward (nearly 52 yrs ago) are rooted in BT football and basketball. It took me 15 years (and finally sitting in Beaver Stadium watching PSU v. Illinois in Sept 2008) to accept PSU as a BT member.

However, I recognized a long while ago that the days I clung fondly to were long, long gone, and the game, conference, and world, had moved on. I'm completely with my DC brother here, @The Galloping Ghost, on the virtue of expansion, as long as it adds schools and programs of high quality.
When I attend graduation in 2019 the amount of buildings being constructed on campus was mind blowing. No other country in the Western Hemisphere builds its campuses like the USA. Add in the brand new dorms and the university sorta kinda said "we got the moolah."

As for the conference expansion - it'll likely change in the future too. Universities will leave and universities will be added. A decade from now I bet any of the added universities post PSU will not be in the conference given conferences fluctuate in size.

P.S. I yearn to be on campus again. It was awesome while as a student and it's awesome as an alumni. If I have a "happy place" it's Illinois.
 
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#1,114      

altgeld88

Arlington, Virginia
When I attend graduation in 2019 the amount of buildings being constructed on campus was mind blowing. No other country in the Western Hemisphere builds its campuses like the USA. Add in the brand new dorms and the university sorta kinda said "we got the moolah."
Spot on, my friend. I must say, having toured various campuses last year with my daughter on admissions visits, and being impressed at new facilities I saw, that UIUC blew them all away (and these were top-tier research universities.) My visit this week floored me in that regard. The school just goes from strength to strength.

It's also interesting, as someone who as a freshman in '84-'85 used to hack around on what was the recently-abandoned university golf course between Florida & St. Mary's Road east of Fourth, seeing the complete athletic complex developed there. When I left in 1990 IIRC only the track and baseball stadiums had been built there. Even Bielfeldt didn't materialize until the mid-'90s. And Fourth Street ended at St. Mary's.

I must say I miss the white silos of the old feed mill across St. Mary's from Assembly Hall.
 
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#1,115      
With that said, if the rumors around an SEC/B1G playoff have any steam (why wouldn't they), would that then have an impact on the ability of schools in the ACC to get out of their Grant of Rights deal? I would imagine an "ironclad" agreement that is left borderline irrelevant by a complete overhaul of the system this agreement relates to, could be vulnerable to arguments that the entire industry has shifted in such a way as to make the Grant of Rights invalid.
If a majority of members want to leave then they could dissolve the ACC, and the GoR would gone with it. It would likley take something huge to make that happen, but maybe if the ACC gets shut out of the playoff, that could force such a move. Honestly the biggest thing the ACC has going for it is that the share of schools desirable to the SEC and B1G may not be large enough to throw the conference into complete turmoil if they all decided to leave at once.

I do expect at some point schools like FSU and Clemson are going to take the calculated risk of leaving the ACC and and seeing if they can settle or win in court, but it probably wont be for a few years, as the potential hit from the GoR grows smaller every passing year. I don't think anyone wants to be the first just yet, but for sure nobody wants to be the last.
 
#1,116      
If a majority of members want to leave then they could dissolve the ACC, and the GoR would gone with it.
Totally false. Dissolving a contract between multiple parties is not a majority vote, it would need to be all parties.
I do expect at some point schools like FSU and Clemson are going to take the calculated risk of leaving the ACC and and seeing if they can settle or win in court, but it probably wont be for a few years, as the potential hit from the GoR grows smaller every passing year. I don't think anyone wants to be the first just yet, but for sure nobody wants to be the last.
Who says it's their choice?

FSU and Clemson make it real simple because ESPN owns full bore 3-tier rights to both the ACC and SEC.

So they violate their contract with the other ACC members, destroy the arrangement for which ESPN has a locked-in a below market rate for the next 12 years, and ESPN is going to respond to this by voluntarily amending their agreement with the SEC to pay them millions and millions more dollars for content they already have the rights to?

Oh but they'll fight it out in court. Money and power always wins. What happens when ESPN countersues the SEC for tortious interference in their business seeking damages for the diminution in the value of their ACC contract?

I promise you, from personal experience, the legal departments of big state universities do not have deeper pockets than the Disney Corporation to withstand costly litigation.

It was a fait accompli that Texas and Oklahoma would join the SEC before the existing Big XII media deal ran out the day they announced they were leaving. Oh this grant of rights stuff is just legal mumbo jumbo, money and power will stampede over this red tape, they'll be out in a year. How's that take holding up?

So many people looking through the wrong end of so many telescopes here.
 
#1,117      
I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Midwestern Big Ten originalist. My memories from the age of ~ 5 onward (nearly 52 yrs ago) are rooted in BT football and basketball. It took me 15 years (and finally sitting in Beaver Stadium watching PSU v. Illinois in Sept 2008) to accept PSU as a BT member.
If you started watching the Big Ten 52 years ago, Penn State has now been a Big Ten member about a decade longer than Sparty was when you started watching.
 
#1,118      
Totally false. Dissolving a contract between multiple parties is not a majority vote, it would need to be all parties.
You're under the misconception the GoR and the Conference are the same thing. I'm not talking about dissolving the GoR, which is a contract. I'm talking about dissolving the conference, which is a legal entity made up of its member institutions. All such organizations have articles of organization and/or bylaws which set forth their internal rules, including terms of dissolution. I haven't seen the ACC's but it is typical that majority vote is all that is necessary to dissolve an organization or corporation, and I've read articles where dissolution by majority vote of the conference is referenced as a possibility (though not a likely one in the short term at least). It's highly unlikely the conference requires unanimous consent for dissolution.

In the event the conference dissolves entirely, that resolves the ESPN piece as well and ESPN's interest is best served in the SEC grabbing whatever makes sense from the remains of the ACC.
 
#1,119      
Spot on, my friend. I must say, having toured various campuses last year with my daughter on admissions visits, and being impressed at new facilities I saw, that UIUC blew them all away (and these were top-tier research universities.) My visit this week floored me in that regard. The school just goes from strength to strength.

It's also interesting, as someone who as a freshman in '84-'85 used to hack around on what was the recently-abandoned university golf course between Florida & St. Mary's Road east of Fourth, seeing the complete athletic complex developed there. When I left in 1990 IIRC only the track and baseball stadiums had been built there. Even Bielfeldt didn't materialize until the mid-'90s. And Fourth Street ended at St. Mary's.

I must say I miss the white silos of the old feed mill across St. Mary's from Assembly Hall.
From one old alum to another...it's my banner pic.
1659038297414.png
 
#1,121      

altgeld88

Arlington, Virginia
If you started watching the Big Ten 52 years ago, Penn State has now been a Big Ten member about a decade longer than Sparty was when you started watching.
To be fair to me, I accepted PSU by year 15. With Nebraska, Maryland and Rutgers I quickly adopted a "the more the merrier" attitude. And with USC/UCLA, once I got over the shock within a day or so, I thought "yeah; bring it on." So I'm learning. ;)
 
#1,122      
In the event the conference dissolves entirely, that resolves the ESPN piece as well
Not necessarily, in a variety of different ways that are hard to pin down without access to the relevant contracts.

Anyway, there aren't 8 ACC schools with happier homes waiting for them in the event of dissolution, so it's kind of a moot point.
 
#1,123      
Sweet. I believe I posted that pic on the board earlier this year. There's an Illinois Central passenger train passing across the Kirby viaduct at Neil Street in the foreground in the full version.
Knew I got that here, couldn’t remember from who. So thanks and yes the full banner has the trains!
 
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