BZuppke
- Plainfield
Illinois also derives 85% of its revenues for sources other than the State. It’s the smaller schools that have suffered.
USC, UCLA to join the Big Ten in 2024
- Status
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Interesting stat. Would like to know what that number was in 1980, 1990, 2000, 2010 and 2020 for all state schools.
In or out, I'll always despise ND football.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal
What are you guys talking about when you say "oh no, this will be like the NFL now"? Did you have any classes at Halas Hall? Room across from Soldier Field freshman year?
Sure, CFB has its endearing peculiarities (not all of them great/worth going to the mattresses for, I might add) but for me, the thing that makes it (and the rest of college athletics) most substantially different - by a wide margin - is the connection I have to the institution. That's not going to be impacted a whit by the fact that maybe we won't get to do home-and-homes with Fresno State.
Sure, CFB has its endearing peculiarities (not all of them great/worth going to the mattresses for, I might add) but for me, the thing that makes it (and the rest of college athletics) most substantially different - by a wide margin - is the connection I have to the institution. That's not going to be impacted a whit by the fact that maybe we won't get to do home-and-homes with Fresno State.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
The only point I was really making there was that what constitutes a championship level record is contingent on the context.
More best vs best scheduling and a bigger playoff are the things that grab the immediate cash, so all roads are going to lead in that direction. Not sure exactly when or in what format, but I don't think there can be much doubt that 2 or 3 loss teams are going to start being regular features of the business end of the title race, and of course as you say correctly, that leeway is going to benefit Alabama and Ohio State, not Mizzou and Illinois.
(The future of playoff expansion is the question I feel like is being under-discussed, and would benefit from some reporting from journalists with good contacts in the B1G and SEC. Do they maybe benefit from staying at 4? I think you could make that argument. I don't think they have the horses to just play champion against champion and shut the rest of the system out yet, but do Warren and Sankey think that?)
Argue amongst yourselves fellas.
I would say though Matt, to your point about the centrality of ties to the school and having that in common with the athletes, I 1000% agree and that's where I take a much different view of the explosion of transfer liberalization than most people of the general "the NCAA sucks, pay the players" disposition.
Players routinely having careers at multiple major programs undermines the core ethos of college sports in a way NIL does not. Transfer liberalization was pursued as a release valve to try and sustain labor peace, but that dam was collapsing so fast it has wound up getting lumped in with other player rights issues in an unhelpful way. Financial compensation as an inducement and bargained-for exchange tying a player to a school is a much better framework, but I fear that horse has permanently left the barn.
You can bet your bottom dollar that when this ship starts to sink, every last bit of it will be blamed on the players.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
I can't agree with your point about transfers. Fans of a school are fans of the school no matter whose name is on the back of a jersey. Players were only at an institution for 4-5 years anyway, so changing that to a lower number isn't that big of a deal in my mind.The only point I was really making there was that what constitutes a championship level record is contingent on the context.
More best vs best scheduling and a bigger playoff are the things that grab the immediate cash, so all roads are going to lead in that direction. Not sure exactly when or in what format, but I don't think there can be much doubt that 2 or 3 loss teams are going to start being regular features of the business end of the title race, and of course as you say correctly, that leeway is going to benefit Alabama and Ohio State, not Mizzou and Illinois.
(The future of playoff expansion is the question I feel like is being under-discussed, and would benefit from some reporting from journalists with good contacts in the B1G and SEC. Do they maybe benefit from staying at 4? I think you could make that argument. I don't think they have the horses to just play champion against champion and shut the rest of the system out yet, but do Warren and Sankey think that?)
Argue amongst yourselves fellas.
I would say though Matt, to your point about the centrality of ties to the school and having that in common with the athletes, I 1000% agree and that's where I take a much different view of the explosion of transfer liberalization than most people of the general "the NCAA sucks, pay the players" disposition.
Players routinely having careers at multiple major programs undermines the core ethos of college sports in a way NIL does not. Transfer liberalization was pursued as a release valve to try and sustain labor peace, but that dam was collapsing so fast it has wound up getting lumped in with other player rights issues in an unhelpful way. Financial compensation as an inducement and bargained-for exchange tying a player to a school is a much better framework, but I fear that horse has permanently left the barn.
You can bet your bottom dollar that when this ship starts to sink, every last bit of it will be blamed on the players.
Free agency changed pro sports but didn't kill the leagues. Transfers will continue to change college athletics, but I don't see it as doomsday. Marching bands will continue to play, fans will continue to tailgate, and games will continue to be played.
sacraig
- The desert
Homecoming 2019
- Chicago
Even if the NCAA collapses and all the talented high school kids skip college and play in some version of Overtime elite or the G-League, I'd still watch whatever intramural level squads Illinois and the rest of college basketball turns out since, as Matt pointed out, I have a very strong connection to this university and will irrationally support any football or basketball team it trots out.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Big 12 in deep discussions to add up to six Pac-12 teams after USC, UCLA defections to Big Ten
The Big 12 is aiming to maintain its positioning as a power conference while expanding its footprint to a key market
www.cbssports.com
Guys, free advice, you need to shiv Iowa State, Kansas State, Oregon State, and Washington State and create a new 3rd thing.
I don't approve of such behavior obviously, but the financial interests of the bigger free agent schools are not rocket science here. Again, the Catholic 7 was the only time there has ever been collective initiative displayed by the schools.
Phil Knight and Tim Cook need to hop on the phone and just put a deal together.
(The heck is going on with Stanford and Cal btw? Is Stanford really just fine with becoming Rice? Is Cal's financial situation beyond salvage at this point?)
Last edited:
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Which, to be clear:
FBS AD says Fox and ESPN are "quietly" driving realignment by relaying valuations: "We're not picking random schools."
The latest dimension of the conversation around networks' involvement in realignment is a FBS AD's claim of networks relaying schools' value.
awfulannouncing.com
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Seems like an exercise in futility until the dust settles.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
You can sympathize with the league offices panicking. They're a press release away from all not having jobs anymore.
But for the schools, as uncomfortable as uncertainty is in the meantime, they really need to understand that their best leverage point comes when the Big Ten signs its next deal and thereby rejects bidders who are left with piles of money and no football to broadcast. That is the moment their best opportunity is going to arrive, whatever shape it may take.
And it seems to me their best move is to make something new, stay small, stay to the West in markets you have to yourself, and leave yourself and your broadcast partner running room to take advantage of the inevitable collapse of the ACC and any other chaos that may ensue. The Big XII did itself no favors taking on UCF as a mouth to feed. But that's just me spitballing. Do whatever Amazon tells you to do.
Last edited:
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal
Theoretically, I am (or, was) aligned - I was worried that #PortalLyfe was going to be the thing that actually destabilized college athletics in the way that the "but muh amateurism!" crowd always said paying the players would. The defining feature of Braggin' Rights is that you have to pick one side and Mark Smith picked both!
But in practice? Andres Feliz is one of my favorite Illini ever. Gonna be pulling for Slim Jake to thrive at Duke this year. Was fine with Adam Miller wanting to come back, regardless of how legitimate that ever was. I dunno, maybe I'd feel different if we were Michigan St. and had Izzo digging his heels in and grousing about it every chance he got, but fortunately we're not.
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
strange
I can see Cal going the way of Rice or UChicago
but I have a hard time seeing Stanford doing that
I really saw Stanford coming into the B1G until reading things this weekend - now it seems unlikely unless ND comes in
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
We're at the 99th percentile though.
On net, the emerging reality of every roster being a free for all every year is damaging to fan connection and engagement at the margin.
(Even for me, I can remember putting a ton of time into the minutae of a scholarship grid in years past, but that's foolish now, it's all going to be thrown in a blender multiple times between now and 2026)
It's not doomsday, it's just decline.
These teams and conferences are not just free floating pieces of intellectual property that can be disassembled and reassembled at will. The mortar that goes between the bricks was built over decades, and without that you've got a pile of bricks, not a wall.
I sound like an 18th century French nobleman here, but there's an element of that. Whatever good modernity has brought us, it has not meant viewer growth for jousting has it?
Last edited:
The dust might never settle. I see it more that the presidents are performing their proper due diligence so that they can decide whether to jump ship to the Big 12 or try to make something out of the Pac 10.
GrayGhost77
- Centennial, CO
On the contrary, I'd say overall population growth, renaissance faires, and Medieval Times has brought substantial viewer growth to jousting.
For those of you who missed a link within that article...Which, to be clear:
FBS AD says Fox and ESPN are "quietly" driving realignment by relaying valuations: "We're not picking random schools."
The latest dimension of the conversation around networks' involvement in realignment is a FBS AD's claim of networks relaying schools' value.awfulannouncing.com
http://archive.boston.com/sports/colleges/articles/2011/10/09/power_move_by_acc/?page=full
How did I never see this article from 2011 before? Interesting read in and of itself. I think you'll like it.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
More people are watching jousting--and football--than ever before.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Cal's a very different sort of institution than Rice or UChicago. Among other things under common leadership with UCLA which must be a tad awkward.
The other thing to know about Cal, besides their athletic department being badly in debt as many are, is that their campus and Berkeley in general have an absolutely insane housing crisis at the moment and while razing their stadium is far from a solution, it might be a release valve to kick the can down the road a bit.
What a shame.
As my ancien regime alter-ego, let me say: touche
Pretty decent artifact for the proposition that when all is said and done revenue will win the day over historic brand value in college basketball. The ACC slipping behind leagues with more football money coming in is visible for all to see.
Any port in a storm. WVU would happily join any of those leagues, but an invitation is not forthcoming.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
EDIT: Oooh, hang on a minute
Obviously: the Pac 12 needs to do this in order to engage other parties including streamers who may well be their white knights in all of this.
Less obviously: does the Pac 12's exclusive window obligation also apply to its individual schools? Because that would mean they need to run that clock down in order to really engage with creating a new 3rd league.
"We are 100% committed to our conference right up until we sign documents joining the Big 10 or Big 12."
Even a national sportswriter who presumably understands context gets the framing wrong. "ESPN" doesn't have a strategy. "ESPN" is not a business. It's a media brand name for sports content. Along with ESPN+, Hulu, etc. OK, maybe that's all just semantics but the dynamic here is not TV networks paying money to broadcast games. It's a conglomerate--in this case, Disney--choosing the properties over which it wants to control media rights. It's just like what happened with the NHL. So OK Disney got the rights to televise the Stanley Cup finals on ABC. That was not the main part of the the deal. Disney paid $350 million to buy the NHL's shares in the company that manages the platforms for the league's streaming services. The broadcast TV rights to playoff games, that was just a throw-in.Which, to be clear:
FBS AD says Fox and ESPN are "quietly" driving realignment by relaying valuations: "We're not picking random schools."
The latest dimension of the conversation around networks' involvement in realignment is a FBS AD's claim of networks relaying schools' value.awfulannouncing.com
I don't know how all this factors into conference realignment. I'm not that informed or smart. But if you're a sportwriter who is quoting something an AD said in 2011, I think you're probably missing much of the point.
I think the point lost in all this talk of transfers being bad for college sports is that the majority of college sports fans are far more casual than those on this site and maybe know one or two names on the team at any given time. They don't care who came in as a freshman or how many different schools' jerseys a player has worn. And based on what I've seen on here, most well informed fans either 1. Don't have a problem with it or 2. Have a problem with it but just complain about it and watch the games anyway. In fact, you could argue there are signs of increased engagement among hardcore fans with a more active and eventful offseason. If transfers were going to be the end of college sports I think we'd have seen some evidence by now but it looks to me like a lot of grumbling but not much disengagement.
Last edited:
- Status