The Galloping Ghost
- Washington, DC
Hopkins has been a conference affiliate member since 2014 and competes in lacrosse.
USC, UCLA to join the Big Ten in 2024
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Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Wow, what a load of malarkey.
Never suggested academics was the paramount criteria. What I am suggesting is that this may not purely be a revenue decision. I think there are more factors being considered.
They do have a football program as well. Would be quite easy to bring them in as a full member if we were so inclined.Hopkins has been a conference affiliate member since 2014 and competes in lacrosse.
It's not malarkey. Stanford doesn't make sense from a revenue perspective, especially in comparison with other schools known to have applied for membership (unless they're a package deal with ND). The only reason (other than ND) they'd get in ahead of Washington or Oregon is academics. If there's some other factor I'm omitting other than revenue/athletic program value and academics, please let me know.
The Galloping Ghost
- Washington, DC
There's a reason the conference made a specific classification for Hopkins and it's not just because of their lacrosse team's curriculum vitae, though it is rather impressive.
KrushCow31
Former Krush Cow
- Chicago, IL
Notre Dame is also an affiliate member and has two recent B1G championship banners hanging in it's hockey arena. I think some people forget that as well.
I don't disagree, but it's an entirely different thing. I'm pretty sure Johns Hopkins doesn't get a share of football and basketball revenue, so the conference isn't really giving up much to get that association with a premier academic institution. Full membership in the conference is significantly more valuable than what Johns Hopkins has, and it's going to be primarily a monetary decision.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
NYU? Rice? Pure malarkey.
Your initial post made it seem that the decision was going to be based solely on revenues. That's what I took umbrage with. Academics (including research/reputation) is part of the equation, unless the conference has completely sold out (cue Gritty). I don't think they have.
Academics is secondary at best. That's what those examples were meant to show. They're intentionally preposterous, though all of those schools would be amongst the top of the conference academically.
And let's be honest. If Alabama for some reason decided they wanted to leave the SEC for the B1G you better believe the academics wouldn't be an issue.
As to Stanford, there are candidates who still fit the academic profile that make more sense financially. I'd expect that will win the day (unless of course they ride ND's coattails).
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I don’t think the Notre Dame question is a matter of whether ND wants in; they want in. The question is the cost they’d incur leaving the ACC and it’s grant of rights agreement, and the distribution of that burden across the conference. Notre Dame already earns less TV money the rest of the ACC. Their NBC deal is under market value, and their FB coach just left for LSU because he said the ND facilities are too far outdated and he had been unsuccessfully lobbying the administration to upgrade.
Notre Dame does not need to be enticed with Stanford or anyone else. They need the BIG money more than the BIG needs them.
The problem is they signed a grant of rights agreement with the ACC until 2036 which is a 9 figure liability. They’re wanting the BIG (or SEC) to assume that liability. There are obvious reasons why the league is against that; they already have multiple teams in ND primary coverage area, they already own rights to high value ND games (UM, USC, etc) by virtue of existing BIG licensing deals, and Norte Dame viewership is already saturated via preexisting national exposure (ie they can’t create value by bringing ND to viewers who previously couldn’t watch ND).
I believe ND is tied to other programs joining because the BIG will offer the additional teams a partial revenue share to help offset the ND liabilities the league would inherit from the ACC GoR issues.
Notre Dame does not need to be enticed with Stanford or anyone else. They need the BIG money more than the BIG needs them.
The problem is they signed a grant of rights agreement with the ACC until 2036 which is a 9 figure liability. They’re wanting the BIG (or SEC) to assume that liability. There are obvious reasons why the league is against that; they already have multiple teams in ND primary coverage area, they already own rights to high value ND games (UM, USC, etc) by virtue of existing BIG licensing deals, and Norte Dame viewership is already saturated via preexisting national exposure (ie they can’t create value by bringing ND to viewers who previously couldn’t watch ND).
I believe ND is tied to other programs joining because the BIG will offer the additional teams a partial revenue share to help offset the ND liabilities the league would inherit from the ACC GoR issues.
The Galloping Ghost
- Washington, DC
I don't feel like actually looking it up, but I'd absolutely assume Hopkins doesn't get a share of either football or basketball revenue. Nor should they, frankly. The reason I brought them up, other than to correct the facts, was because Hopkins helps show that the conference cares about who they are associated with. It's the same with Notre Dame in hockey. The conference isn't going to have an affiliate that doesn't meet certain academic standards.
As I've said previously, academics aren't driving this bus. No one in this thread is claiming that. However, they definitely play a factor. Certain schools can be dismissed out of hand because their academics aren't up to snuff. Other schools have academics that are worth creating a carve-out just to get a little bit of shine from. Whether this is worthwhile or not is entirely up for debate, but it's clear the B1G has done it.
Stanford is a pretty fascinating case. Gritty, as he often does, makes speculative statements as if they're fact. Meanwhile, for the less assured among us, it's a wait-and-see situation.
I have no idea how it's all gonna end, but the ride has been wild. And as ever, I could not be more glad that it's our conference that is making the moves. The University of Illinois on the open market is a scary proposition.
I may be wrong but I think ND is not subject to the GoR for football, as it is not a full member on thst sport. It's my understanding there is a monetary penalty but it's not as restrictive as the GoR. So theoretically ND could remain in the ACC for the other sports in which it is a full member until the GoR expires and join tbe B1G for football, and just pay the penalty. Again, I'm not 100% sure about this so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
I think you are correct, except that Notre Dame is contractually obligated to join the ACC in football if they join any conference.
The Galloping Ghost
- Washington, DC
I have to believe a ton of lawyers for Notre Dame and the ACC were working overtime this holiday weekend to see how ironclad that is.
I'm not saying academics plays no role. I stated earlier that it is a basis to weed schools out. But my point is that there are a number of schools who fit the academic profile of the B1G very well, that want to join. They're not as prestigious academically as Stanford. But they provide more monetary value to the conference. I'd be surprised if Stanford were to get in over those schools (barring a package deal for ND situation).
My point about Johns Hopkins and Rice is that if the B1G wanted to rival the Ivy League it could. It could make a play for schools on a primarily academic basis. It could make AAU membership mandatory and penalize Nebraska until it got it's status reinstated and it could go after schools on the basis of their research contributions as the primary factor. Instead it's chosen to go up against the SEC. That's not to say academics are irrelevant, but I do think it means academics are a secondary concern. And I don't say that as a negative either, as I do think athletic competition is rightly the primary focus of athletic conferences.
Correct, that's where the monetary penalty comes into play, but from my understanding that is not as significant a deterrent as the GoR is for other schools.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Academics = A LOT of money. It’s not about honor or integrity, Stanford’s academic resources means a TON of research money for the academic alliance that winds up helping every conference school, INCLUDING more money for athletics.
Academics matter for exactly the same reason as media markets … money.
Source?
Frank the Tank made this ridiculous claim when there were discussions about Texas joining the Big Ten. That's when I realized that Frank the Tank doesn't know what he's talking about. If this research alliance based on athletics were true, Texas would be in the Big Ten.
So my question here is, what is the link between NIH grants and athletic conference? Secondary question, according to this University of Washington ranks 2nd in the country, so assuming there is a link, why are we talking about Stanford again?
Do you know which funding source(s) on this are impacted by B1G membership, and any idea to what extent? Also noteworthy, looks like this source also ranks Washington above Stanford.
Another Report Indicates Big 12 in 'Serious' Talks with PAC-12 Schools
For the second time in as many days, reports of the Big 12 aggressively pursuing expansion are coming from reputable outlets
www.si.com
Interesting opinion: "Conference realignment typically starts with greedy schools at the top of the sport. The aftermath, however, is often driven by schools seeking survival."
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This guy first reported USC and UCLA to the B1G:
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