USC, UCLA to join the Big Ten in 2024

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#801      

wma500

wma500
wma500
champaignchris said:
I know “competing” is the word I used, but I’m not sure it’s the right one to use with an irrational actor like ND. They will leave money on the table. They’ll take action out of spite.

They propped up the Big East way beyond the point of it being a functional conference and then entered a mutual suicide pact with the ACC, all to get to say they still have an “exclusive” tv deal with an obsolete, irrelevant over-the-air television network that’s paying them in loose change while freaking Hoosiers football is about to start making quadruple what ND is in television dollars.

The SEC is gonna SEC and ND is gonna ND, and if that results in ND joining the SEC, there’s not a whole hell of a lot the Big 10 can do about it.
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On ND...I find this statement to be so true:

"To those that understand ND, no explanation is necessary....to those that don't, no explanation will suffice".

Paul Finebaum says it well...."ND is a conference of one".

One way or another, they're gonna get three very compelling offers in this latest round of change. Whether that's next week, next month or 3 years from now, we'll see.

I would put the odds of joining the Big 10 as low.
 
#802      

Mr. Tibbs

Mr. Tibbs
southeast DuPage
Mr. Tibbs
wma500 said:
"To those that understand ND, no explanation is necessary....to those that don't, no explanation will suffice".

Paul Finebaum says it well...."ND is a conference of one".

I would put the odds of joining the Big 10 as low.
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They likely won't join because it makes too much sense overall, and because they want to continue their streak of 120 years of playing hard to get.
They wont know what to do and complain about if they finally became a member.

That ship sailed a long time ago
 
#803      

Old.Edgy

O
Old.Edgy
the juiceman cometh said:
Here's the Grant of Rights agreement in full. That stuff about conference affiliated bowl games isn't in there. The agreement actually says what the consideration to each party is in the whereas statements.

"Whereas, the execution and delivery of this Agreement enhances the stability of Conference Membership, confirms the commitment by each Member Institution to the other Member Institutions of the Conference, and thereby provides valuable benefits to each Member Institution of the Conference."

Per this document the consideration given by the Conference is stability. Essentially, "it is valuable to you, Universities, that I be powerful enough to keep you all bound together." That's it. I don't think that's rock solid, personally.

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I think that is the original, and not the new one updated in 2019 ...
 
#804      

the juiceman cometh

T
the juiceman cometh
Old.Edgy said:
I think that is the original, and not the new one updated in 2019 ...
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Updated 2016 and I haven't been able to find a copy of that one. Based on what I've read it was updated to extend the GoR to mirror the length of the new ESPN deal that created the ACC Network. I wouldn't expect a major deviation from the general terms of this, particularly a change in the consideration offered by the Conference.
 
#805      

leifur1

leifur1
leifur1
I like college football for the Saturday game day experience. I loved going to Stanford games in the gargantuan "Stanford Stadium" in Palo Alto. It's official capacity was 85,500. It seemed to be less than half full all the time, but the enormity of the place was stunning. I don't remember a game when the weather was less than perfect, either. The Cardinal weren't very competitive, but it was fun,fun,fun.
 
#806      

ILL_INI

ILL_INI
ILL_INI
Mr. Tibbs said:
They likely won't join because it makes too much sense overall, and because they want to continue their streak of 120 years of playing hard to get.
They wont know what to do and complain about if they finally became a member.

That ship sailed a long time ago
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You do know that they tried to join the Big Ten once (or maybe twice) but were denied, don't you?
 
#807      

PNWIllini

P
PNW
PNWIllini
leifur1 said:
I like college football for the Saturday game day experience. I loved going to Stanford games in the gargantuan "Stanford Stadium" in Palo Alto. It's official capacity was 85,500. It seemed to be less than half full all the time, but the enormity of the place was stunning. I don't remember a game when the weather was less than perfect, either. The Cardinal weren't very competitive, but it was fun,fun,fun.
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Yeah they fixed that in 2005. Current capacity is 50,000
Best Friend Calligraphy GIF by Ultra Records
 
#808      

RML

R
RML
leifur1 said:
I like college football for the Saturday game day experience. I loved going to Stanford games in the gargantuan "Stanford Stadium" in Palo Alto. It's official capacity was 85,500. It seemed to be less than half full all the time, but the enormity of the place was stunning. I don't remember a game when the weather was less than perfect, either. The Cardinal weren't very competitive, but it was fun,fun,fun.
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The enormity, eh?
Probably unintentional, but it made me laugh. (And if anyone I chat with--other than my Cal neighbor--would understand why, it's another U of I grad.)
 
#809      

spotter

S
spotter
wma500 said:
On ND...I find this statement to be so true:

"To those that understand ND, no explanation is necessary....to those that don't, no explanation will suffice".

Paul Finebaum says it well...."ND is a conference of one".

One way or another, they're gonna get three very compelling offers in this latest round of change. Whether that's next week, next month or 3 years from now, we'll see.

I would put the odds of joining the Big 10 as low.
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I posted a few days ago that under the "wouldn't hurt to try," theory the Big 12 should call ND.

I can't see ND joining the SEC and have to run the Alabama/Georgia/several others gauntlet every year for a 9-3 record. Great match-ups on paper and TV, but the SEC would make ND become a full member, so some traditional ND rivalries/tomato cans might go away.

ND joining the PAC-reimagined makes absolutely no geographic or economic sense now that USC is out of the conference, but...ND

If ND is too snooty to join the B1G, then that realistically leaves the Big 12 and ACC. ND has pretty much zero history in playing football with current and future Big 12 schools, but they would be an immediate threat to win the conference in football. Payday won't be as big as the other conferences, but a big jump in pay from the pittance NBC is paying.

If ND stays with the ACC it can have its cake and eat it too. A semi-stable schedule, plus Stanford, maybe USC, and the service academies. I don't see the B1G falling all over themselves to try and schedule ND if they turn their noses up at the conference again. If the ACC doesn't renegotiate GoR until 2036 and the current GoR is punitive for ND to leave, they could just simply stand pat (until the ACC is raided and implodes).
 
#810      

wma500

wma500
wma500
spotter said:
I posted a few days ago that under the "wouldn't hurt to try," theory the Big 12 should call ND.

I can't see ND joining the SEC and have to run the Alabama/Georgia/several others gauntlet every year for a 9-3 record. Great match-ups on paper and TV, but the SEC would make ND become a full member, so some traditional ND rivalries/tomato cans might go away.

ND joining the PAC-reimagined makes absolutely no geographic or economic sense now that USC is out of the conference, but...ND

If ND is too snooty to join the B1G, then that realistically leaves the Big 12 and ACC. ND has pretty much zero history in playing football with current and future Big 12 schools, but they would be an immediate threat to win the conference in football. Payday won't be as big as the other conferences, but a big jump in pay from the pittance NBC is paying.

If ND stays with the ACC it can have its cake and eat it too. A semi-stable schedule, plus Stanford, maybe USC, and the service academies. I don't see the B1G falling all over themselves to try and schedule ND if they turn their noses up at the conference again. If the ACC doesn't renegotiate GoR until 2036 and the current GoR is punitive for ND to leave, they could just simply stand pat (until the ACC is raided and implodes).
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Swarbrick is on record as saying the biggest changes in the CFB landscape likely won't happen until the early 2030's, when things like the GoR are up, amongst other things. We all know more changes are coming...just a matter of if they're next month, or in 2030-ish.
 
#811      

Saturdaze

S
Saturdaze
I think people are underestimating the impact this new BIG tv deal will have. All schools including private are required to submit an Equity in Academics Disclosure Act report to the department of education which includes financial information. These reports are available to the public, and I have included some links to the 2019 report which includes financial data from the 2017 - 2018 school year as a readily available example.

BIG teams are projected to earn $50 - $70 million more than ND and ACC teams. This will put a team like Illinois on equal footing with ND and teams like OSU, PSU miles ahead.

Notre Dame has famously outdated facilities which Brian Kelly was more than happy to draw attention too. There is no way they are holding out anymore.

#32 Illinois $51.3 million
I’ve said it before: Based on what they have to watch, Illini fans are the most faithful in college football. How did UI make a $29M profit off a 2-10 season?

#6 Notre Dame $107.4 million
Brian Kelly’s team rebounded from a gruesome 4-8 in 2016 and had a shot at the College Football Playoff until an ugly 41-8 loss at Miami in week 11. The buzz helped the Irish jump 10% in gross revenue and top $100M while raking in $54.6M in profit.

www.pennlive.com

Which are the richest and poorest Power Five college football programs? Here are all 65, ranked bottom to top

For the first time, Penn State football amassed $100M in gross revenue in 2017-18, but where does that rank among the monetary heavy-hitters?
www.pennlive.com www.pennlive.com
 
#813      

sacraig

sacraig
The desert
sacraig
Saturdaze said:
I think people are underestimating the impact this new BIG tv deal will have. All schools including private are required to submit an Equity in Academics Disclosure Act report to the department of education which includes financial information. These reports are available to the public, and I have included some links to the 2019 report which includes financial data from the 2017 - 2018 school year as a readily available example.

BIG teams are projected to earn $50 - $70 million more than ND and ACC teams. This will put a team like Illinois on equal footing with ND and teams like OSU, PSU miles ahead.

Notre Dame has famously outdated facilities which Brian Kelly was more than happy to draw attention too. There is no way they are holding out anymore.

#32 Illinois $51.3 million
I’ve said it before: Based on what they have to watch, Illini fans are the most faithful in college football. How did UI make a $29M profit off a 2-10 season?

#6 Notre Dame $107.4 million
Brian Kelly’s team rebounded from a gruesome 4-8 in 2016 and had a shot at the College Football Playoff until an ugly 41-8 loss at Miami in week 11. The buzz helped the Irish jump 10% in gross revenue and top $100M while raking in $54.6M in profit.

www.pennlive.com

Which are the richest and poorest Power Five college football programs? Here are all 65, ranked bottom to top

For the first time, Penn State football amassed $100M in gross revenue in 2017-18, but where does that rank among the monetary heavy-hitters?
www.pennlive.com www.pennlive.com
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All good facts, but don't underestimate Notre Dame's ability to honor "tradition" over common sense.
 
#815      

Old.Edgy

O
Old.Edgy
ILL_INI said:
You do know that they tried to join the Big Ten once (or maybe twice) but were denied, don't you?
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Actually THEY only tried to join once as I recall, back in 1908 (contrary to popular belief, I WASN'T around then)...But a scUM guy named Fielding Yost got their application denied - many say he was anti-catholic... The B1G tried to make amends and invited them to join in the late 1970's (I think), and they flatly said: 'Not only NO, but hell NO' !!
I think the whole ND thing is a farce. Granted: They have been successful in building their brand and their fame as an independent, and that's fine as far as the 'marketing' part of their ego, but in reality their overly bloated ego's have become an irrational myth based on BS... IMHO...
 
#816      

Battle89

Battle89
Battle89
Old.Edgy said:
Actually THEY only tried to join once as I recall, back in 1908 (contrary to popular belief, I WASN'T around then)...But a scUM guy named Fielding Yost got their application denied - many say he was anti-catholic... The B1G tried to make amends and invited them to join in the late 1970's (I think), and they flatly said: 'Not only NO, but hell NO' !!
I think the whole ND thing is a farce. Granted: They have been successful in building their brand and their fame as an independent, and that's fine as far as the 'marketing' part of their ego, but in reality their overly bloated ego's have become an irrational myth based on BS... IMHO...
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1657211975370.png
 
#818      

Pikeillinifan

Pikeillinifan
Pikeillinifan
Interesting twist, would free up ND for the B1G, with who else?

Stanford and maybe Oregon and Washington?

I wonder if Georgia Tech and Miami would be in the cards too. I really thought UNC and Virginia would end up in the B1G once the ACC imploded.
 
#820      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
Pikeillinifan said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545084522303217666
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ESPN trying to void the TV deal that gives them all of this content at a below market rate for 15 more years doesn't pass the smell test.

And given that the TV deal is with the conference that would be destroyed if this went through, that's probably not even legally valid.

I am more and more certain the carousel stops until the early 2030's.

spotter said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545045542585057283
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The idea of adding SMU to the Pac 12 and saying "we're a Texas conference now. Dallas is Pac 12 country" is economic nonsense now more than ever as I've said a million times, but leaving the green eyeshade out of it, it's just so dumb and gross and desperate, I really hate it.

SMU should be in the Big 12 and BYU should be in the Pac 12. Make it so.

Fun trivia time: in the major conferences as they were in 1990, there is only one pair of schools for which the geographic conference footprints (ie, the actual places in which the campuses are located) overlapped. Name them.
 
#821      

wma500

wma500
wma500
ChiefGritty said:
Fun trivia time: in the major conferences as they were in 1990, there is only one pair of schools for which the geographic conference footprints (ie, the actual places in which the campuses are located) overlapped. Name them.
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If I'm understanding the question correctly....Iowa (B1G) and Iowa St (Big 8)
 
#822      

Pikeillinifan

Pikeillinifan
Pikeillinifan
ChiefGritty said:
ESPN trying to void the TV deal that gives them all of this content at a below market rate for 15 more years doesn't pass the smell test.

And given that the TV deal is with the conference that would be destroyed if this went through, that's probably not even legally valid.

I am more and more certain the carousel stops until the early 2030's.


The idea of adding SMU to the Pac 12 and saying "we're a Texas conference now. Dallas is Pac 12 country" is economic nonsense now more than ever as I've said a million times, but leaving the green eyeshade out of it, it's just so dumb and gross and desperate, I really hate it.

SMU should be in the Big 12 and BYU should be in the Pac 12. Make it so.

Fun trivia time: in the major conferences as they were in 1990, there is only one pair of schools for which the geographic conference footprints (ie, the actual places in which the campuses are located) overlapped. Name them.
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Regarding ESPN, maybe they know where things are headed after the ACC media rights expire, and might even see a Notre Dame defection coming, so they said screw it. They own the SEC, and want to drive the narrative and push key ACC schools there now to control how things shake out with the final form of the SEC and B1G.

Losing $$ short term vs. the long term $$ might make sense for them. Obviously I have not done the math behind it, but I guarantee they've been running scenarios. Potentially losing UNC and Virginia to the B1G might be a risk they don't want to take.

As we all know, when enough money is at stake, the legality of things gets very, very gray.

Who knows. . . I find it all very interesting and am just glad UI is in the B1G and are in good shape throughout all of this.
 
#824      

ILL_INI

ILL_INI
ILL_INI
ChiefGritty said:
Fun trivia time: in the major conferences as they were in 1990, there is only one pair of schools for which the geographic conference footprints (ie, the actual places in which the campuses are located) overlapped. Name them.
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How much overlap are you talking about? I don't know of any sharing a campus. A city? A county? A state? Georgia and Georgia Tech and Iowa and Iowa State come to mind, but that's two pairs.
 
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