I agree with you. I was being sarcastic.
West Virginia 89, Illinois 57 POSTGAME
I agree with you. I was being sarcastic.
I totally agree, I think he has this year and next to prove himself. The recruits will "fire" him first without tourney appearances. I believe Whitman likes him and his recruiting success buys him two with option for third.
Bingo
drumanimal
- Orlando, FL
We flat out looked unprepared today! What an embarrassment!!! We are not going to beat FSU!! We better get used to NIT!!
Somebody please tell me what YouTube video about coaching basketball they say to inbound against full court pressure, just have your guards start at half court, and run soft corner routes to the baseline, and if they don't get it, just have them "post up" to get the ball, because we look about as well coached as my daughters second grade soccer team, and all I've learned all my soccer acumen from YouTube.
No screens, we wait 2 seconds before moving on every single inbounds play....then we don't throw the ball to people who are open when they are open. But I've been saying that for years now.
TJL better get some serious run...he's the only one who didn't seem to shy away from the competition today...I'm just gonna hold my comments on everyone else. I think they are trying hard, but they haven't been put in a great position to succeed and overcome their deficiencies. But as puzzle pieces, they just don't fit great for a top 40 type team.
No screens, we wait 2 seconds before moving on every single inbounds play....then we don't throw the ball to people who are open when they are open. But I've been saying that for years now.
TJL better get some serious run...he's the only one who didn't seem to shy away from the competition today...I'm just gonna hold my comments on everyone else. I think they are trying hard, but they haven't been put in a great position to succeed and overcome their deficiencies. But as puzzle pieces, they just don't fit great for a top 40 type team.
NIT??? The way we looked today, we are not making the NIT.
Illinifan1951
- Southeastern Illinois
Players get credit for wins and coaches get blamed for losses. Still a lot of season left. Have to forget this game and move on to tomorrow.
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We're actually a good deal more talented.
Congrats on having a gameplan and executing it. Someday we might also get to experience such a foreign concept.
It seems you have moved from "we are talented" to "a good deal more talented," as the bar has now been lowered to "more talented" than this game we played.
I have argued ad nauseam that posters have exaggerated the talent on this team.
On paper this team is way more talented than the BP3 NCAA team and any of DMacs teams and those teams made it to the tourney and handily won a game.
I don't think you fire a coach mid season for doing a bad job. But the last 2 games don't inspire a lot of confidence in post season hopes
On paper? "On paper" works when you have a team full of freshmen or something. This is a veteran team with players we have seen, and it is not as talented as people made it out to be. Groce has not coached well, but if that team was really talented "on paper", it would not have been picked in the bottom half of the B1G and not making the tournament.
As far as the DMac teams, the only one that won a game was the 2010-11 team: DMac, Mike Davis, Richmond, Leonard, Paul, DJ, Tisdale, Griff, etc. Definitely more talented than this team.
I just mean in terms of recruiting rankings. Our players were much more highly touted coming out of high school.
When a team is less than the sum of its ingredients, all fingers have to point to the cook.
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Recruiting rankings and "on paper" work when you have a team full of freshmen or something. We have a very veteran team full of players we have seen in the past. I do not believe that there is anyone left on this board who can claim that Groce has coached well, but again, if that team was as talented "on paper," they would have projected us much higher. Other than fans on Illini message boards, not many believed that this team was very talented, obvious by their projections.
I don't understand the needle you're trying to thread here.
As I said before, the preseason projections had the idea that John Groce is a bad coach who ought to be fired baked into the cake. That's a huge piece of that analysis.
Deleted member 556108
D
Guest
Yeah absolutely. If I recall correctly that Michigan BTT game just before it had a pretty brutal feel to it as well
You hate Groce, we all get it. But the premise that this team is very talented and it is just Groce that ruins it holds no water. This team is simply not as talented as you are trying to make it, with pretty much no proof.
Computer rankings and pre-season polls do not drop you that badly with just the element of "Groce is just a terrible coach."
As far as the poster who mentioned the DMac team, and "on paper", the DMac 2010-11 team started the season ranked #13 and #16 respectively in the pre-season polls. Much more talented.
homesickalien
- Springfield
Does 19-43 against Kenpom top 100 teams give you confidence??
This and Groce's overall conference record might be the best data I've seen to say this staff is in over their heads.
I love Groce.
Your "it's not his fault, it's just that his completely healthy, handpicked, balanced, experienced group of enormously hyped recruits in Year 5 of his tenure isn't very talented!" argument is bizarre and self-defeating.
Groce has absolutely nowhere to hide in terms of credit or blame in terms of the product on the floor this year. The 2016-17 Illini are John Groce Basketball. This is it.
Self defeating is trying to argue against something that the other person has not said, when you are losing an argument. You look pretty bad when you try to accuse me of having said that Groce is not at fault, especially given my views on Groce.
Your argument is that this "team is very talented," so do not try to argue with me that I have said that this is not Groce's fault.
Very poor argument...
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The talent/coach argument is pretty circular. All we know for sure is that we keep losing to anyone who's not a cupcake, and playing unwatchable basketball while doing it.
I do know that even without a lot of talent, you see certain things on the court that pass the eye test for a capable coach. And so far this season, he's 0-2.
A coach not coaching well, which nobody has argued against on this thread, is totally different than saying that this team is very talented.