I don't know if it is necessarily what he wants but rather what the team is capable of getting. In present day college basketball defenses chase teams off of the 3 pt line. Most teams compensate by going to the rim. The major offense deficiency of this team is being able to get to the rim. The inability to get to the rim leads to the large amounts of 2 point jump shots.
Wisconsin 57, Illinois 43 POSTGAME
I don't know if it is necessarily what he wants but rather what the team is capable of getting. In present day college basketball defenses chase teams off of the 3 pt line. Most teams compensate by going to the rim. The major offense deficiency of this team is being able to get to the rim. The inability to get to the rim leads to the large amounts of 2 point jump shots.
Was the first half a clinic on screening? Seemed to me that none of our screens accomplished anything, and almost all of theirs worked like a charm. The epitome was the one where our on-ball defender ended up at about half-court, and the screeners defender was left back pedaling between the now wide open shooter at the elbow, and a wide open roller on his way to the basket.
FinalFour88
- Charlotte, NC
I always think back to Groce's initial press conference his first day as Illinois head coach. One reporter asked him what type of offense he would be running. Groce replied: "Attacking. We'll run an 'attacking' offense."
The offense Illinois runs is anything but attacking.
I wish we would send more people to the offensive glass. Semed like they were typically sending three, we were sending one. Have to expect to get killed in offensive rebounding percentage when that happens. Offensive rebounds are the same as turnovers, and as offensively efficient as Wisky is, you gotta win that (turnovers plus offensive rebounds).
I know, you can't send three because it gives the other team a ton of fast break points. Just look at how many fast break points we got in this game with them sending three guys to the glass. Oh, wait...
I know, you can't send three because it gives the other team a ton of fast break points. Just look at how many fast break points we got in this game with them sending three guys to the glass. Oh, wait...
When our late comback started to falter, but then their guy (not Happ, the other guy) missed his third or fourth free throw in a row, couldn't you just feel that he might just miss the next one, too? Raise your hand if you collapsed when LB was then pulled, just knowing that the free throw would now be missed, but that we wouldn't be able to corral the rebound.
(Raises hand.)
(Raises hand.)
There is definitely some blindness going on... but I'm not sure you see well enough to make that assertion. We are BAD at defense, BAD at rebounding, and BAD at scoring against quality competition. You know, things that are supposed to get better with good coaching. We have not gotten better in the slightest, and while I am glad they did play hard the last 35 minutes of the game, we lack what it takes to compete for 40 minutes. That being said, it is on both the players and the coaches and I am not giving people a free pass.
Malcolm had a chance to have an impact and get us back into the game, and he choked. We started shooting contested 3's with 5 minutes left, and couldn't get a rebound when it mattered. This is a team game... and from the top (coaching) to the bottom (players) we just don't have what it takes to get things done against quality competition. When you stop being competitive, there is something wrong. We shouldn't be okay with a 14 point home loss to a good team and say "well, at least we didn't get beat by 20". That is a very, VERY sad standard.
There are so many little things like this during the course of a game that add up and we do most of them wrong. Another instance of killing momentum with a timeout and substituting ball stoppers for offense WHEN WE NEED TO SCORE! Wisconsin ran the same out of bounds play from under their basket that we've been burned on several times this season but Hayes missed the shot from the corner. Their scouting report was impeccable. Do we even look at other teams film?? We can't set a screen if our lives depended on it and we can't get off on one being set against us. It's just awful fundamentals. What the the hell do we do in practice? Climb ladders???
I'm not gonna beat up on the kids. They haven't been given the tools they need to properly use their talents. Wisconsin has a bench full of teachers. They have kids that have bought in and they now have some +athletes to go with good fundamentals. Dangerous team, it seemed like we caught them on an off night and had a chance to come back until that timeout and ridiculous substitution.
Good time to post this update.
The Dave
- CA
Again, I'm part of the Fire Groce Mafia, but this game was mostly on the players. Groce has made a number of adjustments. He's got TJL playing more, he's cut down on his crazy substitutions (maybe still not ideal, but not as horrible as it has been for the past few year). Those are the things he can affect NOW as a coach (in game).
This PARTICULAR game was on the players. They shot poorly and rebounded horribly. Groce can't do anything about that during the game.
That being said, a lot of those one-game issues is actually on the long-term coaching. We still don't have a reasonable offense. We apparently don't teach rebounding (good thing Black came in knowing how to do it), we don't play good defense. These are all things a coach should have in place by his 5th year. If he doesn't, he needs to go.
Groce's single biggest problem is his ability to coach-up players. Nobody has gotten significantly better under him in the past 5 years. Apparently he doesn't teach and (like Webber before him) he just keeps on sticking with what he thinks should work, regardless of personnel or results.
I'm perfectly fine with railing on Groce and wanting him gone, but please argue it as a big picture thing and don't let it blind you to the on-court deficiency of a game.
This PARTICULAR game was on the players. They shot poorly and rebounded horribly. Groce can't do anything about that during the game.
That being said, a lot of those one-game issues is actually on the long-term coaching. We still don't have a reasonable offense. We apparently don't teach rebounding (good thing Black came in knowing how to do it), we don't play good defense. These are all things a coach should have in place by his 5th year. If he doesn't, he needs to go.
Groce's single biggest problem is his ability to coach-up players. Nobody has gotten significantly better under him in the past 5 years. Apparently he doesn't teach and (like Webber before him) he just keeps on sticking with what he thinks should work, regardless of personnel or results.
I'm perfectly fine with railing on Groce and wanting him gone, but please argue it as a big picture thing and don't let it blind you to the on-court deficiency of a game.
I've posted this before and I'll post it again, we shoot far too many mid-range jumpers as a team. This was an analysis done 2 years ago, but it still applies this year.
http://www.bigtengeeks.com/three-shots/
LOL that was awesome! Thanks!:thumb:
RedRocksIllini
- Morrison, CO
+1,000,000 on everything here. Really sums up the past 4 years as far as I'm concerned.
Illinifan1951
- Southeastern Illinois
Players get the credit for victories and coaches get the blame for defeats. That is just the way it is.
No, coaches get both credit and blame for everything that happens in their programs.
Please. It's been discussed at length, at least by me, but for as long as the offensive sets yield long 2s and bad 3's on a majority of possessions, that's still on Groce. Asking players to make shots that are low percentage nationally and in the pros is not a winning formula, and blaming them for not making them is even worse.
I can't help but noticed the only "adjustments" you cited are "he's now playing his best players more!". Pretty low bar.
Lastly, regarding the bolded, I agree it's ONE of his biggest issues, but it is far from his only issue.
Players actually tend to take the blame when you have a good coach. It's not rare. We have a pretty poor coach.
Illinifan1951
- Southeastern Illinois
After a win most comments are about how well players played and not much about coaching decisions. Following a loss most comments are about the bad decisions made by the coaches and not about turnovers and missed shots.
Pretty easy to diagnose the disconnect in your thinking here. After this Illini team wins, we talk about how shooting 64% from the floor is awesome, but it is not a consistent substitute for the poor offensive system (if there is one) the players have been placed in.
After losses, we rightly blame the poor offensive system the players have been placed in.
They run a predictable passive offense that is eady to scout for. Also our collective shooting has gone to crap.
What, this year?
Back in 2013 and 2014 every time we won it was "zOMG JFG!!!!". I know because I was one of those people.
So when you saw nothing but JFG around this board, he was getting no credit?
You beat me by a matter of seconds.
You gotta be quick :thumb:
I think the entire board needs clarification on this point - Tilmon (along with the other 2017 recruits) signed a National Letter of Intent with the University of Illinois, which binds him to at least 1 year with the team. The letter explicitly says, "I understand I have signed this NLI with the institution and not for a particular sport or coach. If a coach leaves the institution or the sports program (e.g., not retained, resigns), I remain bound by the provisions of this NLI."
If Groce leaves, WE ARE NOT GOING TO LOSE THESE RECRUITS. Moreover, Tilmon is likely a 1-and-done anyway, so worrying about him jumping ship after a year is nonsensical.
This sentiment of "let's keep him around and see what he can do with his recruits," after getting a 3.5 year dose of what that looks like, is bananas. The last time we had a coach perform under .500, we fired him (even after he showed promise of recruiting the Chicago area)..and brought in Lou Henson.
We need a complete overhaul - Ford, Parnham, Walker - all of them. If we want to compete for B1G championships again, we need championship-caliber talent at the helm, not middle-of-the-pack-MAC.
If Groce leaves, WE ARE NOT GOING TO LOSE THESE RECRUITS. Moreover, Tilmon is likely a 1-and-done anyway, so worrying about him jumping ship after a year is nonsensical.
This sentiment of "let's keep him around and see what he can do with his recruits," after getting a 3.5 year dose of what that looks like, is bananas. The last time we had a coach perform under .500, we fired him (even after he showed promise of recruiting the Chicago area)..and brought in Lou Henson.
We need a complete overhaul - Ford, Parnham, Walker - all of them. If we want to compete for B1G championships again, we need championship-caliber talent at the helm, not middle-of-the-pack-MAC.