The fight certainly wasn't there early on. I don't know what we were doing on our first offensive possession. And, in hindsight, that was pretty foretelling about how the night would go. I have been frustrated by our play at times this year, but I was flat out disappointed tonight. We just looked out of sync in every facet of the game.
Wisconsin 75, Illinois 50 POSTGAME
The fight certainly wasn't there early on. I don't know what we were doing on our first offensive possession. And, in hindsight, that was pretty foretelling about how the night would go. I have been frustrated by our play at times this year, but I was flat out disappointed tonight. We just looked out of sync in every facet of the game.
Don't rain on my optimism.
I know, am worried long term w/o some miracle immediate recruiting.MadtownIllin
- Madison, WI
Just got back from the game; obviously very disappointing in their performance...no energy and looked like they didn't really want to be there--neither did I....
Not bad mouthing him at all. I was responding to a comment. His lack of playing time against elite basketball players is the exact reason I feel he has a low B.B. IQ.
Piper's face in that video still is every Illini fan right now
hooraybeer
- Pittsburgh, PA
hope that BU didn’t go into the locker room and just yell his face off. have to be able to adjust to what’s working. yelling isn’t working
The thing about the big time programs showing interest was that they viewed him as their Matic Vessel. We viewed him as our savior star.
No matter how many times somebody explains this there's always another "yeah but look at that 98-99 team" post.
Everytime I think we've reached the low point we just reach lower.
For the sake of retaining any optimism I have left I'm just going to assume we have a talent problem and not a coaching problem. If we have a coaching problem we are really, really screwed.
I think it's more that he never had to develop a complex understanding of how to play the game. He just bulldogged low-level competition in high school, using his physical gifts to get wherever and whatever he wanted.
You see him trying to do the same type of thing now, and it backfiring. He tries to bully his way to the rim to attempt generally high degree of difficulty shots, and in addition to taking a lot of contact while mostly not getting calls, he has yet to figure out reliable techniques to solve college level interior defenders.
If we compare the development of Trent and Mark: Frazier's quickness gives him an asset that he can leverage on the offensive end, even at the college level. I believe this has allowed Trent more freedom to try things - to experiment - and therefore greater opportunity to learn and evolve his game. More opportunities mean more success, and success feeds confidence. Remember, at the beginning of the year, Trent was exhibiting the same frequency of reckless play and poor decision-making that Mark is demonstrating now. But Frazier's quickness allowed him to engage a greater landscape of game experiences, and thus much more effectively refine his approach to the game at this higher level of complexity (the college game vs the high school game). Mark Smith, on the other hand, has had the physical advantages he held over high school competitors completely neutralized. One of the great consequences of this, is that Mark has run out very quickly of things to try, thus limiting his opportunity for experimentation and stifling his capacity for learning + growth. Not having the ball as much in his hands is also a major factor here. He has a very limited ability (related to limited experience) to affect the game off the ball. This further stifles his opportunity to learn and evolve his approach to the game.
A player's gameplay is like a problem-solving algorithm. Each player has a set of functions they rely on to achieve the desired goals of a game. The process of a player's growth is essentially about the constant refinement and evolution of the player's algorithm (enhancing his programming). This encompasses even physical advancements for the player, as new physical advantages allow for stronger problem solving tools and strategies. What I'm saying overall, is that Mark Smith is not a "dumb player". What he has is a simplistic gameplay algorithm - one designed to solve very simple puzzles - that is now being asked to adapt to a far more complex puzzle.
All I believe Mark Smith needs is a larger sampling of gameplay experiences in order to 1. gain a greater understanding of the system that is a basketball game, and 2. discover + establish the identity of the basketball player he is meant to be. Right now, he is far from knowing who he is meant to be on the court.
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Whitmans Sampler
- Eastern Iowa
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What the hell is the deal with T'Jon? Haven't heard a freakin word and the guy hasn't played in three figgin games. Answer me this. I only ask cuz the Illini have stunk up the rafters through part of this bullshiat...no comment from the biggies...are we idiots or are they?
and is T'Jon gonna take his ball and leave and are we just watching this soap way too !!!!ing long?
in short...quickness > strength when it comes to guard play and adapting to college game. I do think you have to hone certain skills to gain advantage. LB has honed his high releas midrange. AJ has honed his 3p...granted its limited to wide open looks. TJL has adapted his driving skills to avoid getting blocked...hes shocked me sometimes in being able to get his shots up in traffic.
Its up to coach to help build chemistry and put players in spots to capitalize on their skill advantages.
For whatever reason Mark Smith hasnt adapted his play from his HS tactics (bull drives) that dont work in b10...quickness may have something to do with it. He does have good 3p success from left corner though. Agree with O&B that MS has to determine and develop his competitive advantage skillsets.
I must say I was impressed by the Wiscy freshman who was swatting shots away like flies.
I also liked what Cayce was doing in his limited minutes.
I think TJL could have helped.
illiniCA
- DC Area
Our non conference schedule was bad. Wait and look at the big 10 season as a whole and see if there is improvement regression or no change. The issue with this team is not mark smith.
Finke Alstork Jordan and Nichols needs to step up as a group and open things up for the freshman
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Finke Alstork Jordan and Nichols needs to step up as a group and open things up for the freshman
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That simply is not true.
Since we don't know what the infraction was, I think I'll trust coach. Also I don't understand what you're trying to say about the bigs. It doesn't make any sense.
Terrible game all around against a really bad Wisconsin team. They managed to increase their already double digit average margin of victory over us, which truly boggles my mind. This team has many problems, but man they play soft at times. We have seen it all season where they show up and get angry and fight, but there was none of that tonight.
Offensively, I’m not even sure where to start. It seemed like guys stopped moving and just waited for someone to make a play. I’m not sure if this was an ‘old habits die hard’ situation where Finke and Black were sitting around for Malcolm Hill to show up and make a shot, but at some point one of those upperclassmen have to want it. It just seems like there was a lot of standing around and less movement through the offense. They got hit in the mouth and let the previous regimes offense takeover.
Defensively, I know others like what we are doing defensively and I get that the scheme is based on personnel, but it was bound to get picked apart by a disciplined team (Wisconsin may not be that talented, but they know where their supposed to be on the court). Part of this was their guys stepping up and hitting shots, but spacing the floor and moving to open spots does wonders for an offense.
We are worse then I thought we would be this year. I had no delusions of an NCAA berth, but I did think we would be in contention for an NIT appearance and I’m not sure we will be. The schedule didn’t do us any favors, but we will see what happens going forward. I’m happy with consistent improvement, but saw none of it this game. It could be another very rough one against MSU.
Offensively, I’m not even sure where to start. It seemed like guys stopped moving and just waited for someone to make a play. I’m not sure if this was an ‘old habits die hard’ situation where Finke and Black were sitting around for Malcolm Hill to show up and make a shot, but at some point one of those upperclassmen have to want it. It just seems like there was a lot of standing around and less movement through the offense. They got hit in the mouth and let the previous regimes offense takeover.
Defensively, I know others like what we are doing defensively and I get that the scheme is based on personnel, but it was bound to get picked apart by a disciplined team (Wisconsin may not be that talented, but they know where their supposed to be on the court). Part of this was their guys stepping up and hitting shots, but spacing the floor and moving to open spots does wonders for an offense.
We are worse then I thought we would be this year. I had no delusions of an NCAA berth, but I did think we would be in contention for an NIT appearance and I’m not sure we will be. The schedule didn’t do us any favors, but we will see what happens going forward. I’m happy with consistent improvement, but saw none of it this game. It could be another very rough one against MSU.
Big Picture not any better
I've read all the posts.
First of all, is anyone looking at this year in light of the entire CBB landscape? The B1G is bad! I mean, watch some of the ACC, Big 12 and Big East games this weekend...even the SEC and PAC 12...there is no comparison. And that means teams like Purdue and MSU will regress due to a lack of quality competition. The B1G will be lucky if those teams make the Sweet 16. THIS is the backdrop for this year's Illini. So let that sink in a bit.
Also, our freshman are going to start regressing within the next three weeks. Unless you are a 5 star player in an NBA body, it is unavoidable. These kids are unprepared physically and mentally and emotionally for a D1 Power 5 schedule...even in the worst P5 conference in D1. And there is no safety net to hold them up with our upperclassmen.
Go back and read what all of you were writing in early November. If Underwood was as good as everyone said...and thought...he'd have been a head coach much earlier in his career. I will tell you this: Every single freshmen that is seeing major minutes on the floor (except Ebo) was basically a Groce recruit. Groce's management style, however flawed, was not filled with profanity. It is no secret that Underwood uses it frequently for impact. That is a very different style for the kids to adjust to and that stuff gets old if your coach is not connecting with you on other levels. I wonder how the OK State kids that he recruited are feeling about Underwood (not to mention the players who remain from last season) and whether he can be trusted after he said all the right things but left after one year? Sure shows commitment, eh?
I've read all the posts.
First of all, is anyone looking at this year in light of the entire CBB landscape? The B1G is bad! I mean, watch some of the ACC, Big 12 and Big East games this weekend...even the SEC and PAC 12...there is no comparison. And that means teams like Purdue and MSU will regress due to a lack of quality competition. The B1G will be lucky if those teams make the Sweet 16. THIS is the backdrop for this year's Illini. So let that sink in a bit.
Also, our freshman are going to start regressing within the next three weeks. Unless you are a 5 star player in an NBA body, it is unavoidable. These kids are unprepared physically and mentally and emotionally for a D1 Power 5 schedule...even in the worst P5 conference in D1. And there is no safety net to hold them up with our upperclassmen.
Go back and read what all of you were writing in early November. If Underwood was as good as everyone said...and thought...he'd have been a head coach much earlier in his career. I will tell you this: Every single freshmen that is seeing major minutes on the floor (except Ebo) was basically a Groce recruit. Groce's management style, however flawed, was not filled with profanity. It is no secret that Underwood uses it frequently for impact. That is a very different style for the kids to adjust to and that stuff gets old if your coach is not connecting with you on other levels. I wonder how the OK State kids that he recruited are feeling about Underwood (not to mention the players who remain from last season) and whether he can be trusted after he said all the right things but left after one year? Sure shows commitment, eh?
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
still reeling from the Huskers game and then this turd....no way to polish this one...simple lack of effort , hustle and heart against a mediocre wisky team that couldn't miss...the 3 pt bank shot said it all...
Playing our way out of ANY post season play fast....no help on frontcourt yet...I'm a glass half full type, but the half full portion needs work...soft inside and too much dribbling outside....got shredded inside by badgers and was an embarrassing game to watch...they have now won 12 straight against us...
Playing our way out of ANY post season play fast....no help on frontcourt yet...I'm a glass half full type, but the half full portion needs work...soft inside and too much dribbling outside....got shredded inside by badgers and was an embarrassing game to watch...they have now won 12 straight against us...
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I can't decide if you're an Iowa or Indiana fan. Throwing our coach under the bus with the comments about "asking his former players what they think about him." C'mon. We want a coach not a cheerleader in that position.
Me too. Can't remember turning a game off before it was over, though it was over. May have to revert to football strategy, ask the wife if we are within x points to determine if I will watch.:tsk:
Still rooting, but it is just depressing.
We could be adding to Top 50 players next year however...not sure what Herard was in school, but I know he was Top 50.
Ha! Well played PlayAZ
No harm no foul, neither of us want to be known for leading that forum stat category!
I dont believe Wiscy is as bad as you contend...I saw very good play and discipline from the whole team.
Regardless....this one is a confidence breaker from the previous narrative of "we stayed in all games..lost 4 close ones, could be 3rd in b10 with difft bounces, yada, yada.".
This is where a coach is most challenged...dealing with low/no wins and fading confidence. It will be interesting to watch how the team responds on Monday.