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A team can lack talent yet still play hard and with discipline. Either Underwood is way overrated as a coach, or these kids don't like playing with each other. I'm leaning toward the latter.
Wisconsin 75, Illinois 50 POSTGAME
not playing hard or with discipline could have a variety of factors. not sure I see a correlation with that and whether team likes to play with one another.
Mark Smith is not a dumb kid. Let's get that out of the way early.
He does however, have some bad habits that he brought with him to IL. Concentrating on BB since just the summer of 2016 he relied almost solely on size/athleticism in HS. Bigger and stronger than the guards, quicker and more athletic than interior players, he could do pretty much what he wanted and get away with it. Obviously not so in the B1G. Every game he will dribble right into traffic and turn it over, take it baseline, get cut off, and have no option, etc. My money is on him figuring it out between now and next year.
Damonte missed virtually his entire SR yr of HS BB. He is rusty and it shows, as he is trying to shake the rust off at a much higher level of competition.
Trent has been great, makes his share of FR mistakes but has been a pleasant surprise.
Ebo is raw, but very athletic, could be a very good player by the time he is a JR.
Vesel we will have to wait and see.
The upperclassmen we have? Let's be realistic without being cruel. Only LB is a legit starter level B1G player. On a first division, Tourney level team the other 5 are rotation level players. More than 1 of them are end of the bench guys on a good team. There lies the problem. We are out-talented by every single team we will play in conference.
Get better BB players. That is the one and only way up.
He does however, have some bad habits that he brought with him to IL. Concentrating on BB since just the summer of 2016 he relied almost solely on size/athleticism in HS. Bigger and stronger than the guards, quicker and more athletic than interior players, he could do pretty much what he wanted and get away with it. Obviously not so in the B1G. Every game he will dribble right into traffic and turn it over, take it baseline, get cut off, and have no option, etc. My money is on him figuring it out between now and next year.
Damonte missed virtually his entire SR yr of HS BB. He is rusty and it shows, as he is trying to shake the rust off at a much higher level of competition.
Trent has been great, makes his share of FR mistakes but has been a pleasant surprise.
Ebo is raw, but very athletic, could be a very good player by the time he is a JR.
Vesel we will have to wait and see.
The upperclassmen we have? Let's be realistic without being cruel. Only LB is a legit starter level B1G player. On a first division, Tourney level team the other 5 are rotation level players. More than 1 of them are end of the bench guys on a good team. There lies the problem. We are out-talented by every single team we will play in conference.
Get better BB players. That is the one and only way up.
A few thoughts:
-This result is worrisome, anytime effort becomes an issue in a game, that's a big big problem.
-I understand Smith is a freshman but there has to be some doubt/concern creeping in by everyone at this point.
-This team has talent but there are so many missing pieces and mental lapses that the talent won't amount to anything anytime soon.
-This result is worrisome, anytime effort becomes an issue in a game, that's a big big problem.
-I understand Smith is a freshman but there has to be some doubt/concern creeping in by everyone at this point.
-This team has talent but there are so many missing pieces and mental lapses that the talent won't amount to anything anytime soon.
Or.....they don't like playing for Underwood.
This is the first coach since Kruger who isn't having his best season with the previous coach's recruits. Self, Weber and Groce all had their best seasons with the previous regime's players. Certainly not the case with Underwood. Or did Groce just leave the cupboard that bare?
GortTheRobot
- North Bethesda, Maryland
Don't look under the bridge people, just follow the Billy Goats across.
IlliniDent
- Chicago, IL
Yes he really did leave it that bare
GortTheRobot
- North Bethesda, Maryland
This is true
We are a bad basketball team right now. Not enough capable upperclassman and freshman are not ready or good enough to carry the load. Major concern going forward is can Underwood hold this team together or do we collapse. For first time in a conference game I thought our effort was poor. Need to see improvement from our young players rest of the year. Right now Smith has really taken a step back. Other major concern is how all this losing impacts recruiting. At some point you have to win games if you want big ten caliber players to come. Hate to say this but when is the last time a power 5 program didn’t have a conference win in either football or basketball. Long uphill climb for both programs. Hard to be patient at this point
And yet in Groce's farewell press conference he state's he's leaving the Illini program in a better place than he found it.
Dead wrong!!! I actually liked Groce as a person during his time here, but that statement really burned me (then and still now) and sucked most of the respect I had for him clean away. So glad he's gone!!! Even though present results don't show it, I do think we're in a better place with Underwood.
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I am sorry to say that I agree the locker room is becoming more divided. Winning cures all ills. We need to win desperately.
This particular time in Illini athletics history is the lowest in memory. Totally irrelevant.
If Underwood doesn't get his recruiting act together we can expect more of the same next year and the year after, etc. The Illini can't fire and hire coaches every 4 or 5 years and ever expect to get out of the doldrums.
If Underwood doesn't get his recruiting act together we can expect more of the same next year and the year after, etc. The Illini can't fire and hire coaches every 4 or 5 years and ever expect to get out of the doldrums.
The talent level is not even close, but there is also a difference. It is different getting a brand new top 50 player, and different getting a former top 50 player who has already played two years of Div. I and things "did not work out" for him.
GortTheRobot
- North Bethesda, Maryland
Okay, as frustrating as it is, if we had lost by just a couple, everyone would be saying that it is way too tough to win in Madison. Well, it is tough to win there, and they put together a great game while we had a crapfest. I will see how we do with MSU. If we give them a tough time, even in a losing effort, I will write this off as an anomaly.
Not saying that I have no issue with being o-fer in the BIG, but the rest of our season before this game, I think we all felt we had a vastly improving team that just needed some seasoning and better breaks, and that it was being done with glaring roster deficiencies.
I was angry after the Wisky game, but I am still on board to see what we do for the rest of the season. BU is a good coach, it's just a hard rebuild. I completely expect us to make a major jump next year if we pick up one big who can protect the rim.
Not saying that I have no issue with being o-fer in the BIG, but the rest of our season before this game, I think we all felt we had a vastly improving team that just needed some seasoning and better breaks, and that it was being done with glaring roster deficiencies.
I was angry after the Wisky game, but I am still on board to see what we do for the rest of the season. BU is a good coach, it's just a hard rebuild. I completely expect us to make a major jump next year if we pick up one big who can protect the rim.
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
How different would we be now if the NU and MD games had turned out wins instead....I think the losses we had early in the season still affect the personna of this team.
If you can't inbound the ball with a 2 point lead and seconds to go and you can't stop a 3pter with only 8 seconds going full court...lose a 20 pt lead AT HOME ???
if, if, if
This BB season feels like the last few FB seasons....a lot of hope squashed by terrible play and no leadership...both sports are playing a lot of frosh...hopefully they progress in later years but this is a most frustrating period of time to be a diehard Illini fan.....
If you can't inbound the ball with a 2 point lead and seconds to go and you can't stop a 3pter with only 8 seconds going full court...lose a 20 pt lead AT HOME ???
if, if, if
This BB season feels like the last few FB seasons....a lot of hope squashed by terrible play and no leadership...both sports are playing a lot of frosh...hopefully they progress in later years but this is a most frustrating period of time to be a diehard Illini fan.....
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bring back the JG Seal training!
Serious question..does anyone know if the UofI Psychology Dept consults with athletic department on performance psychology (neurofeedback or similar)? Seems like they should...
You asked!!
Attachments
Not sure how we assembled a highlight video for this game. Man that was brutal.
Based on what? No rumblings of that, other than your post
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
I can't believe people are upset that Underwood yells. Many successful coaches yell. K, (the now disgraced) Pitino, Knight, Huggins, Self, Baby Pitino, etc.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/preview2010/news/story?id=5767470
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/preview2010/news/story?id=5767470
Underwood's comments and the on-floor product (Frazier on PG consists of a 3-man game between himself, Black, and Ebo). Have to assume Lucas' suspension is also a symptom of negative morale.
But yes, you're correct, I have no "inside knowledge" of specific conflicts within the roster.
I thought the Stanford Professor comments were interesting ...
Behaviorists call this type of influence "emotional contagion." Explains Roderick Kramer, a professor of organizational behavior at Stanford: "Emotion spreads through groups. Yelling can raise the energy level."
Emotional contagion is what we need...and cut down the dumb mistakes.
Two of BUs mentors featured as yellers...Huggins and Martin.
I hate to say it, but it is too early to tell.
We all are hopeful that the team will improve and certainly expect it to, but at this point we are neither lucky or good. Granted Ayo appears to be a very good recruit, but I am also disappointed that we have no other commits at this point. Any team with good size is killing us, and we have no size at this point outside of Black. Yes Ebo is improving.I remember a year when we beat every team in B10 in one year in both football and basketball. Back when it was just 10. In football we were 0-9 this year and lost to every team except Md, MSU, PSU and scUM. We have already lost to Md and scUM. We have 2 chances against MSU and a home game against PSU. It is very possible we lose to each B10 in one year in either football or basketball. I was thinking this has not been in the 14 team B10, but RU may have done this a couple of years ago. When our football and basketball teams are thought of in the same context, it gets really scary.
I hate to be depressing, but send me some wins.#WeMayWinEventually
GO ILLINI! (PLEASE!:tsk
If we were winning right now, it would be the reason cited for that too. :thumb:
IlliniDent
- Chicago, IL
The thing is not how BU is as a coach himself but how drastic of a difference it is from Groce. The culture change is literally a 180 from where we were.