Bruce Weber Fired

Hollywood · Mar 10, 2012, 07:03 AM

1. Ironically Bruce spoke to what is about the 4.5/5 minute mark about the 2004 and 2005 seasons - living 7 yrs in the past does not get you retained Bruce (good guy or not BW and Izzo) and you're not saving your job here...make a brief statement and move on.
2. Izzo just wants him in the league so he has some one deferential to him that in the current state should be a W for Izzo; not an up and comer with energy like Shaka that will make waves and not be as deferential. Sorry Tom you cannot be the godfather of the league.

illinicb · Mar 10, 2012, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzIlliniFan

Well the reality is, and the point I think Chimpanzee might

be trying to make is, when you hire a coach (or an AD) and choosing between a person who's primary strengths are running an impeccably clean program versus a person who's primary strength is winning games can give you the results we currently have at UIUC.

Thomas quote from yesterday:

Quote:

"Really, the thing that trumps all is we're going to do things the right way (in terms of the NCAA rules)," Thomas said.

Looks like his #1 and his predecessor's are the same. I agree with both of them.

pizzaman · Mar 10, 2012, 07:19 AM

I'm honestly not really heartless, but I see no reason to shed tears for Bruce. He will be fine. I compare his situation to the countless hardworking people who have lost their job due to a change in administration or downsizing. It happens, it's never good for the person and family that is fired but it's part of our economic system, and that does make me sad.

ct3illini · Mar 10, 2012, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexander58

Different times create different expectations. Henson was ripped for his coaching abilities plenty. It was said he was a much better recruiter than coach. He was asked to leave, just as Weber.

I don't believe RG directly asked him to leave, but he sure wasn't "supportive", and Lou, as always, finished his incredible run with class and dignity. He actually had a nice run at NMSU after, reaching the NCAAs a few times, where yes, his team got a win, too. Was paid a $1 a year while he was at it.

The people who ripped him were for the most part fans who hadn't seen how he had built the program from a nuclear wasteland. They show up on campus and expect only more. He had detractors, but most had little perspective, or gratitude and patience. He took his team to the final four the hard way, through years of program building, and with major breakthroughs in recruiting (also took NMSU to the final four as well, the same way). There can be no comparison between Weber and Henson as coaches. Winning percentage (i.e. overall mean) tells very little of the stories. Look at the trajectories instead, which are a lot more informative.

RG showed over the years that he was deeply incompetent, blinded by his arrogance. He left us a mess in our major programs, didn't push the AH renovation forward, shrunk Memorial Stadium, acted like a d*** towards Lou and Jimmy, hung on to "his" coaches way too long, and gave them wonderful buyouts when they had to be released. If it wasn't for BTN, who knows what the shape of the Athletic Dept. would be in right now.

wpr · Mar 10, 2012, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzIlliniFan

I too found Chimpanzee's 'essays' interesting. Using his analogies I'd say RG ran the athletic department with these priorities in this order.

1 Squeaky clean
2 Continuity
3 Profitable
4 Winning

And it seems MT priorities are,

1 Winning
2 Profitable
3 Squeaky clean
4 Continuity

Now most might look at this and say, "Well, they have the same priorities, just a little mixed up. No big deal and it shouldn't make a difference."

Well the reality is, and the point I think Chimpanzee might

be trying to make is, when you hire a coach (or an AD) and choosing between a person who's primary strengths are running an impeccably clean program versus a person who's primary strength is winning games can give you the results we currently have at UIUC.

I can see where WPR is coming from as well.

I am not saying I don't agree with Chimp. I just said a long drawn out reply loses your audience. There are a lot of highly educated, very knowledgeable people on the board. There is not need to try and impress people with how much you know.

AZ you did an excellent job summing up in a few words what Chimp was saying.

My interpretation of the priority list is a little different.

1 Squeaky clean / Winning / Profitable / Continuity

I say what not do them all? Why not value them the same? There is no reason that Illinois can't be squeaky clean AND have a winning program at th same time. many other programs have done so. They are not mutually exclusive ideas. And if they do they will certainly be profitable. AND if they are then there is going to be continuity there without even trying.

Monarch3020 · Mar 10, 2012, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pizzaman

I'm honestly not really heartless, but I see no reason to shed tears for Bruce. He will be fine. I compare his situation to the countless hardworking people who have lost their job due to a change in administration or downsizing. It happens, it's never good for the person and family that is fired but it's part of our economic system, and that does make me sad.

I agree...isn't he getting paid over $3 MILLION! not to coach? I'd gladly take that "job".

Ramrod2010 · Mar 10, 2012, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood

1. Ironically Bruce spoke to what is about the 4.5/5 minute mark about the 2004 and 2005 seasons - living 7 yrs in the past does not get you retained Bruce (good guy or not BW and Izzo) and you're not saving your job here...make a brief statement and move on.

He was commenting on his time here; the best of which happened to be seven years ago. I sincerely doubt that he's been living the past all this time (other than wanting to get back to that point...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood

2. Izzo just wants him in the league so he has some one deferential to him that in the current state should be a W for Izzo; not an up and comer with energy like Shaka that will make waves and not be as deferential. Sorry Tom you cannot be the godfather of the league.

SycIllini · Mar 10, 2012, 08:13 AM

I think it was clear as this season unfolded that a change had to be made. It's unfortunate but, this season needed to show progress from the previous mediocre years. It did not and Thomas had to make a change.

I have supported Weber thoughout his tenure here but, I did not think he coached very well this year. I was very critical of the way used (or didn't use) some players and combinations. But, I do think Weber is a good person and a good coach. I believe he gave his heart and soul to our program. Yesterday was one of the saddest days I can recall of being an alumni and fan. Though I know it had to happen it didn't make it any easier to watch. Just sad and disappointed that it happened this way. The good guy didn't win in this case.

I do give Thomas some of the blame for the way this season spiraled out of control. He had to know or certainly should have known how his comments would be perceived and portrayed by the media and fans. While they were pretty neutral on their face, given the context of past seasons and what had happened in football I think it was clear the measurements he gave compared to results were not favorable for Weber and what the remedy was. I think it did add pressure to Weber, the coaching staff and players which they clearly did not respond well to. Given the results of the previous 5 seasons the end result may have been the same regardless but, I think there were alternative, less ominous statements he could have made as many have pointed out here previously.

Izzo was probably a little too emotional on this issue but, I think his point has merit. He is certainly entitled to his opinion and I don't think he is the only one that shares it. I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a damn what some of us here think of his opinion. Nor should he.

I wasn't happy when Self left. There was some turmoil not knowing which direction the program would head. After yesterday, it is clear to me that I would much rather see a repeat of that situation where the coach comes in, is successful and leaves for greener pastures than to have someone come in, give their all with mixed results and be let go.

Harry Blackwell · Mar 10, 2012, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdgyInChina

Bartow was here 1 year - won 8 games - lost 18.... Bolted for UCLA, where he was FIRED for losing ..... I wouldn't characterize him as a 'very good' coach....
He built a respectable program from scratch at UAB, but as an AD (Admin position), NOT as a coach....

Henson was a 'really good coach'... But he also had times when his players would NOT buy into his system. It also took him 3 years (iirc) to get to the NIT and 5 years (iirc) to get to the dance....

Weber was and is a 'good coach'.. Not the right fit for Illinois perhaps, but certainly a good coach.... jmho ..

The biggest complaint we had with Henson was early exits from the NCAA. Compared to our recent experience, that is a small complaint of barely accomplishing bubble status among teams that couldn't even make the NIT back at Henson's start with IL.

Don't forget, it took Henson 5 years to get to the dance because they did not take 64 teams back then. When Henson first started at IL in 1975, it only had 32 teams so the hurdle was much larger than today. Still, he made it to the NCAA in 13 of his 23 years, and to post season in 15 of his 23 years at IL. That, with a four year building period. Put him in a 64+ team field from 1975-1984 and he almost certainly makes the NCAA at least 2-3 more times, Not to mention the additional NITs he certainly would have been in.
Then, at New Mexico State BEFORE coming to IL, he had a 70% winning percentage and went to the NCAA 6 more times in 8 years during a time when the NCAA tournament only had from 22-32 teams invited. There is absolutely zero comparison in Henson's performance to any of the other Illinois coaches. He came in with lilttle to nothing, Kruger, Self, and Weber came in to a program with a long track record of making the post season. All three had it easier to make the NCAA AND the NIT than Henson. In part of Henson's career THE ONLY WAY YOU MADE THE NCAA WAS TO WIN THE BIG 10.

Look at Henson's Record:

Hardin-Simmons 67-36 (0.650)
25 schools in NCAA tournament
1962/63..10-16
1963/64..20-6
1964/65..17-8
1965/66..20-6

New Mexico State U 173-71 (0.709)
22 schools in NCAA tournament
1966/67..15-11
23 schools in NCAA Tournament
1967/68..23-6 NCAA Far West Regional
25 schools in NCAA Tournament
1968/69..24-5 NCAA Far West Regional
1969/70..27-3 NCAA Final Four
1970/71..19-8 NCAA first round
1971/72..19-6
1972/73..14-11 NCAA 1st round?
32 Teams in NCAA tournament
1974/75..20-7 NCAA 1st round

Illinois 423-224 (0.653)
1975/76..14-13
1976/77..16-14
1977/78..13-14
40 schools in NCAA Tournament
1978/79..19-11
48 schools in NCAA Tournament
1979/80..22-13..NIT 3rd Place
1980/81..21-8...NCAA 2nd round
1981/82..18-11..NIT 2nd round
52 schools in NCAA tournament
1982/83..21-11..NCAA 1st round
53 Schools in NCAA Tournament
1983/84..26-5...NCAA elite 8 (PLAYED GAME ON KY's HOME FLOOR)
64 Schools in NCAA Tournament
1984/85..26-9...NCAA sweet 16
1985/86..22-10..NCAA 2nd round
1986/87..23-8...NCAA 1st round
1987/88..23-10..NCAA 2nd round
1988/89..31-5...NCAA final 4
1989/90..21-8...NCAA 1st round
1990/91..21-10
1991/92..13-15
1992/93..19-13..NCAA 2nd round
1993/94..17-11..NCAA 1st round
1994/95..19-12..NCAA 1st round
1995/96..18-13..NIT first round

And consider this. He was doing this when most highschools DID NOT RECORD games. There were not youtube vidos to promote your performance, the ratings of highschool players were much less dependable and the promotion of them much more local. This guy and his staff had to visit personally 400 or more highschools each year, watch players play, and evaluate much of their performance himself. There were way more highschools back then because a huge number of rural and urban districts have consolidated, giving you even fewer places you have to concern yourself with. Today, a head coach has it comparatively easy beyond the agent issue.

Ransom Stoddard · Mar 10, 2012, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chimpanzee

I came out of the UI Engineering program (BS/MS/PhD), at the time ranked 2nd tied w/Stanford, & ended up in "La La Land" (Los Angeles). Hanging with the CRACKPOTS at Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory until I had to leave, it was SO BAD (I left before the THREE consecutive Mars mission failures, the notorious "got our units mixed up, English vs Metric"). Caltech runs JPL under NASA contract, historically/traditionally MIS-MANAGED

If you feel the need to post your CV to explain a post, well....I question the CV.

I'm still not sure what that jumble of copy/paste has to do with Weber getting fired--and I've got 2 BAs and a Masters!

Dan · Mar 10, 2012, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seagee

I actually would love BW to land at Nebraska:

2. It would save DIA the $3.9 to buy out the remainder of his contract.

It's my understanding that Weber gets the full $3.9M buyout no matter what happens next.

Harry Blackwell · Mar 10, 2012, 09:06 AM

also, probably should have mentioned that the false allegations by the IA asst coach whom I will not name (as now a swear word) caused us to be ineligible for NCAA in 1990-91, even though it was later determined to be complete BS.

Dan · Mar 10, 2012, 09:27 AM

A few thoughts on Tom Izzo's rant on Bruce Weber's firing (audio link)

Tom Izzo was out of line for his rant yesterday, but he did come full circle.

Izzo created the story that Mike Thomas is evil and totally at fault for Illinois' hoops season failure because he went on the radio failed to give BW a vote of confidence.

Tom Izzo set the stage to defend Bruce Weber even before Mike Thomas went on the radio February 11th. But when MT did go on the air, Izzo was ready. He dispatched an mlive writer to blast the Illini AD, then a week later ESPN picked up on the story during the Ohio State telecast, and only then after being told to be upset by the Sports Leader where UI fans complaining about MT (10 days later).

Here's the Tom Izzo / Mike Thomas sequence of events, this is copied from my Feb 24nd post in the Ohio State postgame thread.

Notice the Save Bruce Izzoification of the story began prior to MT's Feb 11th radio appearance-

# 01/30 Izzo says Weber does it the right way (Supinie - MSU @ IL pregame article)
# 02/11 Mike Thomas on Saturday Sportsline (the first MT radio appearance on SS)
# 02/13 Tom Izzo defends Bruce Weber (can't find audio, but referenced in the 2/14 article)
# 02/14 Illinois coach Bruce Weber might deserve to be fired, but Illini AD Mike Thomas isn't helping (BOOM!)
# 02/18 Mike Thomas on Saturday Sportsline
# 02/20 Michigan State's Izzo defends Weber: 'He's a great coach' (Video- Tom Izzo on Chicago Tribune Live)
# 02/21 Illinois at Ohio State on ESPN (BOOM!)
# 03/09 Bruce Weber fired, Tom Izzo goes on epic rant (FINALE)

Here's the articles from Illini writers about Mike Thomas' February 11th radio appearance-

# Thomas' criteria doesn't favor Weber (Mark Tupper)
# Illinois AD will evaluate Bruce Weber (Scott Powers)
# New athletic director raises bar for Bruce Weber, Illini (Supinie)
# Weber's under the whether (Loren Tate)

Pretty minimal. Nothing from Paul Klee. Scott Powers was the only one who utilized the phrase "vote of confidence".

Mike Thomas' February 11th radio appearance -- which was the first time he addressed Bruce Weber's status on the radio -- was not a big story at that time.

MT's Feb 11th radio interview was interesting for a lot of die-hard Illini fans, but in the grand scheme of Illini news at that time it wasn't a huge story.

Most people, in the thread here and elsewhere, after hearing MT on Feb 11th concluded that Weber was most likely done at Illinois after this season. It wasn't a huge revelation. It wasn't huge news. Illinois at that time had lost 5 of their last 6. It just seemed like that was the inevitable conclusion to this hoops campaign.

Mike Thomas' February 11th radio interview became huge news later because Tom Izzo, mlive.com, and ESPN went full-volume amplification. But that happened later. Not on February 11th & 12th.

Dan · Mar 10, 2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/IlliniHQcom/381368476076

Quote:

Bruce Weber speaks at Custard Cup

http://illinoishomepage.net/fulltext/?nxd_id=348502

alexander58 · Mar 10, 2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ct3illini

I don't believe RG directly asked him to leave, but he sure wasn't "supportive", and Lou, as always, finished his incredible run with class and dignity. He actually had a nice run at NMSU after, reaching the NCAAs a few times, where yes, his team got a win, too. Was paid a $1 a year while he was at it.

The people who ripped him were for the most part fans who hadn't seen how he had built the program from a nuclear wasteland. They show up on campus and expect only more. He had detractors, but most had little perspective, or gratitude and patience. He took his team to the final four the hard way, through years of program building, and with major breakthroughs in recruiting (also took NMSU to the final four as well, the same way). There can be no comparison between Weber and Henson as coaches. Winning percentage (i.e. overall mean) tells very little of the stories. Look at the trajectories instead, which are a lot more informative.

RG showed over the years that he was deeply incompetent, blinded by his arrogance. He left us a mess in our major programs, didn't push the AH renovation forward, shrunk Memorial Stadium, acted like a d*** towards Lou and Jimmy, hung on to "his" coaches way too long, and gave them wonderful buyouts when they had to be released. If it wasn't for BTN, who knows what the shape of the Athletic Dept. would be in right now.

I'm not going to bash Lou, as I always enjoyed watching his teams play. But, it's naive to think he left of his own volition. Ultimately, he lost his job because of the fallout from the Deon Thomas recruitment. He had success getting players from Chicago,a place countless others had left empty handed.Illinois really hasn't had consistent recruiting success there since.

ct3illini · Mar 10, 2012, 09:52 AM

Thanks for the timeline. From the yahoo article linked above, Izzo said:

And it’s not an easy job there.”

This guy is really trying to undermine our coaching search. Also, I can't help but wonder if Weber is feeding some of this to him. This reminds me of the "blame the teacher" syndrome that is pandemic in our country. Unfortunately, students aren't accountable for their actions or results anymore, and spoiled parents support "Johnny" no matter if the teacher is well intentioned and has integrity or not. This is MT's fault? Isn't Weber supposed to be a competitor, and relish a challenge? Instead, the "test" was too hard, and unfair because he didn't get enough support? Weber could squelch these rants from Izzo very easily, and I can't help but think he has encouraged them, at least implicitly. Instead, we get more blaming of others (at least it is not the players this time, just the AD and the "difficult" situation known as Illinois Basketball).

Edit: OK I feel a little guilty posting this after watching Weber at Custard Cup, but it would be nice if Weber told Izzo to can it, because Izzo is attacking our program, and not all of us appreciate it.

TyinLex · Mar 10, 2012, 09:53 AM

I have no problem with Izzo sticking up for a friend, Bruce deserves respect and thanks for what he has done here. Izzo lost a close friend and he wanted to find the scapegoat, and he chose MT, which is where I do not agree with what he said. I would stick up for my friend too, but Izzo knows the business and he knew Bruce's time was coming to an end, no need to rant on someone doing their job.

OrangeFever · Mar 10, 2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan

A few thoughts on Tom Izzo's rant on Bruce Weber's firing (audio link)

Tom Izzo was out of line for his rant yesterday, but he did come full circle.

Izzo created the story that Mike Thomas is evil and totally at fault for Illinois' hoops season failure because he went on the radio failed to give BW a vote of confidence.

Tom Izzo set the stage to defend Bruce Weber even before Mike Thomas went on the radio February 11th. But when MT did go on the air, Izzo was ready. He dispatched an mlive writer to blast the Illini AD, then a week later ESPN picked up on the story during the Ohio State telecast, and only then after being told to be upset by the Sports Leader where UI fans complaining about MT (10 days later).

Here's the Tom Izzo / Mike Thomas sequence of events, this is copied from my Feb 24nd post in the Ohio State postgame thread.

Notice the Save Bruce Izzoification of the story began prior to MT's Feb 11th radio appearance-

# 01/30 Izzo says Weber does it the right way (Supinie - MSU @ IL pregame article)
# 02/11 Mike Thomas on Saturday Sportsline (the first MT radio appearance on SS)
# 02/13 Tom Izzo defends Bruce Weber (can't find audio, but referenced in the 2/14 article)
# 02/14 Illinois coach Bruce Weber might deserve to be fired, but Illini AD Mike Thomas isn't helping (BOOM!)
# 02/18 Mike Thomas on Saturday Sportsline
# 02/20 Michigan State's Izzo defends Weber: 'He's a great coach' (Video- Tom Izzo on Chicago Tribune Live)
# 02/21 Illinois at Ohio State on ESPN (BOOM!)
# 03/09 Bruce Weber fired, Tom Izzo goes on epic rant (FINALE)

Here's the articles from Illini writers about Mike Thomas' February 11th radio appearance-

# Thomas' criteria doesn't favor Weber (Mark Tupper)
# Illinois AD will evaluate Bruce Weber (Scott Powers)
# New athletic director raises bar for Bruce Weber, Illini (Supinie)
# Weber's under the whether (Loren Tate)

Pretty minimal. Nothing from Paul Klee. Scott Powers was the only one who utilized the phrase "vote of confidence".

Mike Thomas' February 11th radio appearance -- which was the first time he addressed Bruce Weber's status on the radio -- was not a big story at that time.

MT's Feb 11th radio interview was interesting for a lot of die-hard Illini fans, but in the grand scheme of Illini news at that time it wasn't a huge story.

Most people, in the thread here and elsewhere, after hearing MT on Feb 11th concluded that Weber was most likely done at Illinois after this season. It wasn't a huge revelation. It wasn't huge news. Illinois at that time had lost 5 of their last 6. It just seemed like that was the inevitable conclusion to this hoops campaign.

Mike Thomas' February 11th radio interview became huge news later because Tom Izzo, mlive.com, and ESPN went full-volume amplification. But that happened later. Not on February 11th & 12th.

Thanks for the summary and sequencing, Dan. I agree wholeheartedly that Izzo both was out of line and that he fueled the fire and agitated the situation. As I've said, I respect Izzo immensely, and I give him kudos for caring about and supporting his friend Weber, but his public antics were inappropriate, unprofessional, and unhelpful for everyone. In the end, all he accomplished was adding to the uproar and in the process, I think he very unfairly attacked Mike Thomas. Thomas, diplomatically, did not strike back, but absorbed Izzo's vitriolic shots and stayed his course.

Thomas emerges from the fray created by Izzo as the "better man" in this instance, and the one who conducted himself with diplomacy. He stayed on track, maintained his focus, never broke rank. He was under control as Izzo veered out of control on this.

In the end, this is MT's job. He did what he's paid to do. He assumed the risk of his actions, knowing that he'll be judged for the success of his decisions here in releasing and replacing these coaches.

Izzo is a terrific coach, a loyal friend, and a great leader of his program.

But he really blew it here and he came off playing the buffoon.

Dan · Mar 10, 2012, 09:55 AM

Quote:

The story of Bruce Weber's firing -- and what's on tap

"Really, the thing that trumps all is we're going to do things the right way (in terms of the NCAA rules)," Thomas said.

He cited styles of play ("Some resonate more with your fans than others") and equal opportunities ("A diversified pool" of candidates) as factors in the hire.

"We're about winning championships," Thomas said. "I think that's an appropriate expectation to have."

Klee

PointGuardU01 · Mar 10, 2012, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan

A few thoughts on Tom Izzo's rant on Bruce Weber's firing (audio link)

Tom Izzo was out of line for his rant yesterday, but he did come full circle.

Izzo created the story that Mike Thomas is evil and totally at fault for Illinois' hoops season failure because he went on the radio failed to give BW a vote of confidence.

Tom Izzo set the stage to defend Bruce Weber even before Mike Thomas went on the radio February 11th. But when MT did go on the air, Izzo was ready. He dispatched an mlive writer to blast the Illini AD, then a week later ESPN picked up on the story during the Ohio State telecast, and only then after being told to be upset by the Sports Leader where UI fans complaining about MT (10 days later).

Here's the Tom Izzo / Mike Thomas sequence of events, this is copied from my Feb 24nd post in the Ohio State postgame thread.

Notice the Save Bruce Izzoification of the story began prior to MT's Feb 11th radio appearance-

# 01/30 Izzo says Weber does it the right way (Supinie - MSU @ IL pregame article)
# 02/11 Mike Thomas on Saturday Sportsline (the first MT radio appearance on SS)
# 02/13 Tom Izzo defends Bruce Weber (can't find audio, but referenced in the 2/14 article)
# 02/14 Illinois coach Bruce Weber might deserve to be fired, but Illini AD Mike Thomas isn't helping (BOOM!)
# 02/18 Mike Thomas on Saturday Sportsline
# 02/20 Michigan State's Izzo defends Weber: 'He's a great coach' (Video- Tom Izzo on Chicago Tribune Live)
# 02/21 Illinois at Ohio State on ESPN (BOOM!)
# 03/09 Bruce Weber fired, Tom Izzo goes on epic rant (FINALE)

Here's the articles from Illini writers about Mike Thomas' February 11th radio appearance-

# Thomas' criteria doesn't favor Weber (Mark Tupper)
# Illinois AD will evaluate Bruce Weber (Scott Powers)
# New athletic director raises bar for Bruce Weber, Illini (Supinie)
# Weber's under the whether (Loren Tate)

Pretty minimal. Nothing from Paul Klee. Scott Powers was the only one who utilized the phrase "vote of confidence".

Mike Thomas' February 11th radio appearance -- which was the first time he addressed Bruce Weber's status on the radio -- was not a big story at that time.

MT's Feb 11th radio interview was interesting for a lot of die-hard Illini fans, but in the grand scheme of Illini news at that time it wasn't a huge story.

Most people, in the thread here and elsewhere, after hearing MT on Feb 11th concluded that Weber was most likely done at Illinois after this season. It wasn't a huge revelation. It wasn't huge news. Illinois at that time had lost 5 of their last 6. It just seemed like that was the inevitable conclusion to this hoops campaign.

Mike Thomas' February 11th radio interview became huge news later because Tom Izzo, mlive.com, and ESPN went full-volume amplification. But that happened later. Not on February 11th & 12th.

Disagree he was out of line. Coaches look out for coaches. And as a coach myself I can tell you Izzo is absolutely correct about Thomas not supporting Weber. As a coach you have to have the support of the athletic director or you have no chance. Not that it was the wrong decision to let Bruce go, in fact it was most likely necesarry, it's just really scary how it was handled. If Mike Thomas is going to leave his coaches out to dry in the future we will struggle to have consistency and stability in the major sports. Hopefully he will stand stronger behind 'his' coaches or we will be going through all this again the next time one of our coaches has a difficult season and comes under criticism from the fan-base (which will happen if you study our history). Here's hoping Mike only left Bruce out to dry because he wasn't 'his' guy and not because he wasn't willing to take the heat himself.

Lafong · Mar 10, 2012, 10:05 AM

No support from him for UI fans or UI itself, just a tantrum in support of Bruce and the uniquely over-entitled fraternity of D1 bball head coaches.

And how can this not be viewed as self-serving? If we bring in someone who can recruit Chicago (and, God forbid, other B1G states), Izzo's recruiting is directly threatened.

And it certainly could affect our coaching search.

Once again our B1G brethren decide to interfere in our business. Have any UI coaches ever mouthed off while other schools were dealing with tough issues?

Izzo owns an apology to MT, UI fans, and UI. Unfortunately, the public damage is done.

TheSecretWeapon · Mar 10, 2012, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PointGuardU01

Disagree he was out of line. Coaches look out for coaches. And as a coach myself I can tell you Izzo is absolutely correct about Thomas not supporting Weber. As a coach you have to have the support of the athletic director or you have no chance. Not that it was the wrong decision to let Bruce go, in fact it was most likely necesarry, it's just really scary how it was handled. If Mike Thomas is going to leave his coaches out to dry in the future we will struggle to have consistency and stability in the major sports. Hopefully he will stand stronger behind 'his' coaches or we will be going through all this again the next time one of our coaches has a difficult season and comes under criticism from the fan-base (which will happen if you study our history). Here's hoping Mike only left Bruce out to dry because he wasn't 'his' guy and not because he wasn't willing to take the heat himself.

I don't get the outrage over what MT said. He was asked direct questions about it and instead of giving a BS answer he very diplomatically said he would evaluate the program at the end of the year JUST LIKE HE DOES FOR EVERY SPORT AND JUST LIKE HE HAS DONE HIS ENTIRE CAREER.

I applaud him for being visible to the community and fan base instead of hiding from the press, saying "no comment" or blowing smoke up everyone's butt by giving the dreaded "vote of confidence" to a coach that 97% of the fans expect to be canned at the end of the year anyway.

If UI hires Shaka and he has a top 5 team in 3 years, will Loren and Jim ask him about Shaka's job security? I would assume we would still get the "evaluate at the end of the year" response, but it would be silly to ask the question at this point.

It is not Mike Thomas' fault that the team and coached pissed down their legs the 2nd half of the season.

What did people honestly expect would happen if MT said "I support Bruce 100%" back in February? Bruce would suddenly know what buttons to push and win a few more games? The team would squeak into the NCAA and lose in the first round? Weber would come back next year with no ML and minimal experience from the bench and turn the direction of the program around?

Bruce Weber proved over and over again that he was not the right man for the Illini job anymore. HE HAD 9 YEARS to build this program and it is teetering on the verge of being a perennial doormat in the B1G.

It seems like some just dislike MT from the get go and are looking for ways to criticize him. If his FB and BB hires don't work out than we will have all the evidence we need to call him a terrible AD. As it stands now, I love the fact that he is demanding excellence from all of the sports programs. He is the breath of fresh air that this athletics department has needed for a long time.

Sorry for the long, unfocused rant but jeebus people... Weber is gone, look forward to a brighter future instead of complaining about crap you cannot change.

mailpost21 · Mar 10, 2012, 10:28 AM

Bingo!

pizzaman · Mar 10, 2012, 10:31 AM

Who cares what Tom Izzo says about the Illini AD? Really, does anyone worry that a potential coach offered the job at somewhere in the $2 million range is going to be concerned about Tom Izzo's opinion of the AD? Too much sensitivity to the wide range of opinions for me.

OrangeFever · Mar 10, 2012, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pizzaman

Who cares what Tom Izzo says about the Illini AD? Really, does anyone worry that a potential coach offered the job at somewhere in the $2 million range is going to be concerned about Tom Izzo's opinion of the AD? Too much sensitivity to the wide range of opinions for me.

I just object to Izzo trying to throw his weight around and, most of all, to him taking shots at Mike Thomas. Express support for your friend and leave it at that. No need to publicly vilify someone else for doing his job.

Mar 10, 2012, 09:27 AM	#313
Dan Admin Location: Champaign, IL Posts: 25,908	A few thoughts on Tom Izzo's rant on Bruce Weber's firing (audio link) Tom Izzo was out of line for his rant yesterday, but he did come full circle. Izzo created the story that Mike Thomas is evil and totally at fault for Illinois' hoops season failure because he went on the radio failed to give BW a vote of confidence. Tom Izzo set the stage to defend Bruce Weber even before Mike Thomas went on the radio February 11th. But when MT did go on the air, Izzo was ready. He dispatched an mlive writer to blast the Illini AD, then a week later ESPN picked up on the story during the Ohio State telecast, and only then after being told to be upset by the Sports Leader where UI fans complaining about MT (10 days later). Here's the Tom Izzo / Mike Thomas sequence of events, this is copied from my Feb 24nd post in the Ohio State postgame thread. Notice the Save Bruce Izzoification of the story began prior to MT's Feb 11th radio appearance- # 01/30 Izzo says Weber does it the right way (Supinie - MSU @ IL pregame article) # 02/11 Mike Thomas on Saturday Sportsline (the first MT radio appearance on SS) # 02/13 Tom Izzo defends Bruce Weber (can't find audio, but referenced in the 2/14 article) # 02/14 Illinois coach Bruce Weber might deserve to be fired, but Illini AD Mike Thomas isn't helping (BOOM!) # 02/18 Mike Thomas on Saturday Sportsline # 02/20 Michigan State's Izzo defends Weber: 'He's a great coach' (Video- Tom Izzo on Chicago Tribune Live) # 02/21 Illinois at Ohio State on ESPN (BOOM!) # 03/09 Bruce Weber fired, Tom Izzo goes on epic rant (FINALE) Here's the articles from Illini writers about Mike Thomas' February 11th radio appearance- # Thomas' criteria doesn't favor Weber (Mark Tupper) # Illinois AD will evaluate Bruce Weber (Scott Powers) # New athletic director raises bar for Bruce Weber, Illini (Supinie) # Weber's under the whether (Loren Tate) Pretty minimal. Nothing from Paul Klee. Scott Powers was the only one who utilized the phrase "vote of confidence". Mike Thomas' February 11th radio appearance -- which was the first time he addressed Bruce Weber's status on the radio -- was not a big story at that time. MT's Feb 11th radio interview was interesting for a lot of die-hard Illini fans, but in the grand scheme of Illini news at that time it wasn't a huge story. Most people, in the thread here and elsewhere, after hearing MT on Feb 11th concluded that Weber was most likely done at Illinois after this season. It wasn't a huge revelation. It wasn't huge news. Illinois at that time had lost 5 of their last 6. It just seemed like that was the inevitable conclusion to this hoops campaign. Mike Thomas' February 11th radio interview became huge news later because Tom Izzo, mlive.com, and ESPN went full-volume amplification. But that happened later. Not on February 11th & 12th. Last edited by Dan; Mar 10, 2012 at 09:30 AM.

Mar 10, 2012, 09:52 AM	#316
ct3illini Posts: 245	Thanks for the timeline. From the yahoo article linked above, Izzo said: And it’s not an easy job there.” This guy is really trying to undermine our coaching search. Also, I can't help but wonder if Weber is feeding some of this to him. This reminds me of the "blame the teacher" syndrome that is pandemic in our country. Unfortunately, students aren't accountable for their actions or results anymore, and spoiled parents support "Johnny" no matter if the teacher is well intentioned and has integrity or not. This is MT's fault? Isn't Weber supposed to be a competitor, and relish a challenge? Instead, the "test" was too hard, and unfair because he didn't get enough support? Weber could squelch these rants from Izzo very easily, and I can't help but think he has encouraged them, at least implicitly. Instead, we get more blaming of others (at least it is not the players this time, just the AD and the "difficult" situation known as Illinois Basketball). Edit: OK I feel a little guilty posting this after watching Weber at Custard Cup, but it would be nice if Weber told Izzo to can it, because Izzo is attacking our program, and not all of us appreciate it. Last edited by ct3illini; Mar 10, 2012 at 09:59 AM. Reason: saw Weber video at Custard Cup

Mar 10, 2012, 09:53 AM	#317
TyinLex Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 720	I have no problem with Izzo sticking up for a friend, Bruce deserves respect and thanks for what he has done here. Izzo lost a close friend and he wanted to find the scapegoat, and he chose MT, which is where I do not agree with what he said. I would stick up for my friend too, but Izzo knows the business and he knew Bruce's time was coming to an end, no need to rant on someone doing their job. __________________ Last edited by TyinLex; Mar 10, 2012 at 09:58 AM.

Mar 10, 2012, 10:05 AM	#321
Lafong Posts: 59	Izzo was way out of line No support from him for UI fans or UI itself, just a tantrum in support of Bruce and the uniquely over-entitled fraternity of D1 bball head coaches. And how can this not be viewed as self-serving? If we bring in someone who can recruit Chicago (and, God forbid, other B1G states), Izzo's recruiting is directly threatened. And it certainly could affect our coaching search. Once again our B1G brethren decide to interfere in our business. Have any UI coaches ever mouthed off while other schools were dealing with tough issues? Izzo owns an apology to MT, UI fans, and UI. Unfortunately, the public damage is done.

Mar 10, 2012, 07:03 AM	#301
Hollywood Posts: 11	1. Ironically Bruce spoke to what is about the 4.5/5 minute mark about the 2004 and 2005 seasons - living 7 yrs in the past does not get you retained Bruce (good guy or not BW and Izzo) and you're not saving your job here...make a brief statement and move on. 2. Izzo just wants him in the league so he has some one deferential to him that in the current state should be a W for Izzo; not an up and comer with energy like Shaka that will make waves and not be as deferential. Sorry Tom you cannot be the godfather of the league.

Mar 10, 2012, 07:19 AM	#303
pizzaman Location: Northwoods of Wisconsin Posts: 1,790	I'm honestly not really heartless, but I see no reason to shed tears for Bruce. He will be fine. I compare his situation to the countless hardworking people who have lost their job due to a change in administration or downsizing. It happens, it's never good for the person and family that is fired but it's part of our economic system, and that does make me sad.

Mar 10, 2012, 08:13 AM	#308
SycIllini Location: Sycamore, Illinois Posts: 243	I think it was clear as this season unfolded that a change had to be made. It's unfortunate but, this season needed to show progress from the previous mediocre years. It did not and Thomas had to make a change. I have supported Weber thoughout his tenure here but, I did not think he coached very well this year. I was very critical of the way used (or didn't use) some players and combinations. But, I do think Weber is a good person and a good coach. I believe he gave his heart and soul to our program. Yesterday was one of the saddest days I can recall of being an alumni and fan. Though I know it had to happen it didn't make it any easier to watch. Just sad and disappointed that it happened this way. The good guy didn't win in this case. I do give Thomas some of the blame for the way this season spiraled out of control. He had to know or certainly should have known how his comments would be perceived and portrayed by the media and fans. While they were pretty neutral on their face, given the context of past seasons and what had happened in football I think it was clear the measurements he gave compared to results were not favorable for Weber and what the remedy was. I think it did add pressure to Weber, the coaching staff and players which they clearly did not respond well to. Given the results of the previous 5 seasons the end result may have been the same regardless but, I think there were alternative, less ominous statements he could have made as many have pointed out here previously. Izzo was probably a little too emotional on this issue but, I think his point has merit. He is certainly entitled to his opinion and I don't think he is the only one that shares it. I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a damn what some of us here think of his opinion. Nor should he. I wasn't happy when Self left. There was some turmoil not knowing which direction the program would head. After yesterday, it is clear to me that I would much rather see a repeat of that situation where the coach comes in, is successful and leaves for greener pastures than to have someone come in, give their all with mixed results and be let go.

Mar 10, 2012, 09:06 AM	#312
Harry Blackwell Banned Posts: 333	also, probably should have mentioned that the false allegations by the IA asst coach whom I will not name (as now a swear word) caused us to be ineligible for NCAA in 1990-91, even though it was later determined to be complete BS.

Mar 10, 2012, 10:31 AM	#324
pizzaman Location: Northwoods of Wisconsin Posts: 1,790	Who cares what Tom Izzo says about the Illini AD? Really, does anyone worry that a potential coach offered the job at somewhere in the $2 million range is going to be concerned about Tom Izzo's opinion of the AD? Too much sensitivity to the wide range of opinions for me.