Conference Realignment Thread (Maryland & Rutgers join the Big Ten conference)

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by jackman404

Agreed for the most part. I think within the next 5-10 years the Pac-12 will invite UNLV and Boise State. Obviously the conference wants the Las Vegas market, and UNLV has the much bigger athletic budget than Nevada. And Boise is starting to become a national brand. If they can get into the playoffs one year, I think they get an invite from the Pac-12.

Nevada presents an interesting conundrum. UN-Reno is clearly the stronger academic institution, but UNLV has double the athletic dept. resources of UN-Reno. For these reasons, the Pac12 might not be interested in either school for expansion.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...ase/54955804/1

[GilThorpe]

I dont think the PAC12 has any viable expansion candidates from among those recently listed in this thread. Boise is just not respected enough in all other areas other than football, and UNM, BYU, Hawaii and any of the Nevadas just either offer a bunch of negatives with whatever positives they have, or just dont have enough positives if they have no negatives.

If the PAC12 is going to expand, it will be forced to look further east than they presently are, and I dont see any compelling reason for any of the B12 schools to do so, as long as UT lets them have enough of a slice of the remainder of the whole pie after they get the biggest piece first.

[jackman404]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

Nevada presents an interesting conundrum. UN-Reno is clearly the stronger academic institution, but UNLV has double the athletic dept. resources of UN-Reno. For these reasons, the Pac12 might not be interested in either school for expansion.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...ase/54955804/1

I'm not sure academics would keep UNLV out of the Pac-12 since the conference has never seemed to have an academic standard like the B1G has had with AAU membership. Although undergrad rankings do not matter all that much, they do highlight the disparity of academics in the Pac-12.

6. Stanford
21. Cal
24. UCLA
24. USC
46. Washington
97. Colorado
115. Oregon
120. Arizona
125. Utah
125. Washington State
139. Arizona State
139. Oregon State
189. NEVADA
Tier 2: UNLV

So yes, while Nevada is the much better school academically, they would still be the worst school in the Pac-12. Plus, with all the disparity in the Pac-12, I'm not sure academics would matter at all for that conference. In my opinion, I think the Pac-12 would take UNLV over Nevada any day of the week.

[IlliniBob89]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...st-option-join

San Diego State hasn't officially decided if it wants to return to the Mountain West, but the conference can't invite anyone else before dealing with the Aztecs.

As part of Boise State's contract to remain in the Mountain West, obtained by ESPN, MWC presidents must set the terms of SDSU's return and present an offer to the school before moving on to other schools. The "right of first option" in the contract lasts until Jan. 31, after which time the conference can attempt to invite other schools or stand pat with its current membership.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by jackman404

I'm not sure academics would keep UNLV out of the Pac-12 since the conference has never seemed to have an academic standard like the B1G has had with AAU membership. Although undergrad rankings do not matter all that much, they do highlight the disparity of academics in the Pac-12.

Academics don't matter as much to the Pac12 because they don't have the equivalent of the CIC, but they are certainly a consideration.

I took a longer look at Nevada-Reno and UNLV. It turns out that neither institution is even in the highest Carnegie classification for research universities. Reno brings in about $60 million in federal research money per year, with UNLV only pulling in $30 million/year. That is pathetic. I really can't see the Pac12 being interested in UNLV. SIU and Toledo look like a research giants relative to UNLV.

[OlivetNaz]

Originally Posted by GilThorpe

I dont think the PAC12 has any viable expansion candidates from among those recently listed in this thread. Boise is just not respected enough in all other areas other than football.

Boise State is improving in basketball, they have a good wrestling program that, ahem, ALREADY competes in the PAC-12, and a decent gymnastics program. Academically, they're...well, they're working to improve there...but that kind of thing takes decades, not years. BSU's been a 4-year institution for about 55 years, vs. 150+ for most of the others discussed. I don't know the exact numbers, but the average GPA of their enrolling classes has risen sharply over the last ten years - that's a start.

The biggest thing Boise has going for it is that they are steadily improving, because they are in a relatively isolated area (6 hours to Salt Lake City, 6 hours to Portland - and nothing in between). The area is finally large enough in population that there's a vacuum for a high-quality university and research institution. They're improving this, but again...it takes decades to develop that, not years. They've also, until recently, focused more on undergraduate education than research. The shifting focus has been gradual, but it's happened. Now, they need to grow their reputation and funding. Probably wouldn't hurt if they found a way to open a medical school, too - there's a shortage of doctors everywhere, but it's bad in Idaho - and the state has no medical school.

If academics were anything more than a convenient excuse for the PAC-12, they wouldn't allow Boise State to compete in wrestling.

[jackman404]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

Academics don't matter as much to the Pac12 because they don't have the equivalent of the CIC, but they are certainly a consideration.

I took a longer look at Nevada-Reno and UNLV. It turns out that neither institution is even in the highest Carnegie classification for research universities. Reno brings in about $60 million in federal research money per year, with UNLV only pulling in $30 million/year. That is pathetic. I really can't see the Pac12 being interested in UNLV. SIU and Toledo look like a research giants relative to UNLV.

But looking at other Pac-12 members/targets, it shows this won't be an issue. Oregon only brought in $61.5 million in federal research, $2.2 million LESS than Nevada-Reno. In 2010 Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech all had invites to the Pac-12 (as part of the package deal with Texas and A&M). Federal research levels for those schools:

OU: $41.9 million
OSU: $39.5 million
I couldn't find Texas Tech's number, though I believe it is lower than those two.

Big Ten expansion involves academics, I don't think Pac-12 expansion involves academics at all. If the Pac-12 was willing to accept those three schools' research levels, I don't see why they wouldn't accept UNLV's numbers. If there is no academic arm that works together like the CIC, I really think the Pac-12 would turn a blind eye to all academics.

[jackman404]

Originally Posted by OlivetNaz

Boise State is improving in basketball, they have a good wrestling program that, ahem, ALREADY competes in the PAC-12, and a decent gymnastics program. Academically, they're...well, they're working to improve there...but that kind of thing takes decades, not years. BSU's been a 4-year institution for about 55 years, vs. 150+ for most of the others discussed. I don't know the exact numbers, but the average GPA of their enrolling classes has risen sharply over the last ten years - that's a start.

The biggest thing Boise has going for it is that they are steadily improving, because they are in a relatively isolated area (6 hours to Salt Lake City, 6 hours to Portland - and nothing in between). The area is finally large enough in population that there's a vacuum for a high-quality university and research institution. They're improving this, but again...it takes decades to develop that, not years. They've also, until recently, focused more on undergraduate education than research. The shifting focus has been gradual, but it's happened. Now, they need to grow their reputation and funding. Probably wouldn't hurt if they found a way to open a medical school, too - there's a shortage of doctors everywhere, but it's bad in Idaho - and the state has no medical school.

If academics were anything more than a convenient excuse for the PAC-12, they wouldn't allow Boise State to compete in wrestling.

Boise State should write a book on how to improve a school. It's only been like 15 years since they moved up to FBS football, and they might only be a few years away from playing themselves into one of the power conferences in the age of superconferences. Other sports have been improving as well (particularly basketball this season) and academics have been on the rise. Whoever is in charge there is doing a phenominal job.

[GilThorpe]

Originally Posted by jackman404

Whoever is in charge there is doing a phenominal job.

weirdly ironic, Bob Kustra, former Illinois Lt Governor under Jim Edgar, is the President of Boise St and has been since 2003. He obviously has alot to do with it.

re: PAC12 Wrestling
its amazing they even call it a conference sport. Heres the teams in it:
Arizona State, Boise State, Cal Poly, CSU Bakersfield, Oregon State, Stanford

seems like any school west of the Rockies with a wrestling program gets invited to join that league. Hardly a sport that part of the country takes very seriously.

[OlivetNaz]

Originally Posted by GilThorpe

re: PAC12 Wrestling
its amazing they even call it a conference sport. Heres the teams in it:
Arizona State, Boise State, Cal Poly, CSU Bakersfield, Oregon State, Stanford

seems like any school west of the Rockies with a wrestling program gets invited to join that league. Hardly a sport that part of the country takes very seriously.

Hmm...didn't know that was it for PAC-12 wrestling. That dampens things a little bit. Oh, well. Boise State is still ranked nationally more often than not in wrestling, though. Football may be the calling card, but it's not the only card anymore.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by jackman404

But looking at other Pac-12 members/targets, it shows this won't be an issue. Oregon only brought in $61.5 million in federal research, $2.2 million LESS than Nevada-Reno. In 2010 Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech all had invites to the Pac-12 (as part of the package deal with Texas and A&M). Federal research levels for those schools:

OU: $41.9 million
OSU: $39.5 million
I couldn't find Texas Tech's number, though I believe it is lower than those two.

Yes, Oregon is weak as a research institution. All of their medical research is at the Oregon Health and Science University (Portland) and all of the land-grant research is at Oregon State. They have some quality programs, but the way research universities are structured at Oregon puts them at a huge disadvantage.

That said, Oklahoma and OSU were invited as part of a package deal to land Texas. And UNLV football isn't comparable to OU and OSU. I still can't see why the Pac12 would be interested in UNLV or Nevada-Reno.

[champaignchris]

I think BSU will probably make more sense to the Big 12 than the PAC 12, and he Big 12 is more likely to be expanding next anyway. They're currently just throwing money away by not having a championship game. They need two more teams.

I think it's all waiting on the Maryland-ACC court case. If the ACC can work things out such that everyone in their conference doesn't suddenly become a free agent, then the Big 12 has to stop eyeing FSU and Clemson. At that point BSU becomes a very attractive option.

As a side point, I think the Big 12 screwed up by not grabbing Louisville and Cincy when they had the chance. Those two plus Kansas, K St., Iowa St, and W Va would have made for a pretty decent and not totally geographically screwy northern division.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by champaignchris

I think BSU will probably make more sense to the Big 12 than the PAC 12, and he Big 12 is more likely to be expanding next anyway. They're currently just throwing money away by not having a championship game. They need two more teams.

The Big 12 might be more interested than the PAC 12, but I would bet that Boise State would much prefer the PAC 12. Boise is full of CA escapees, they recruit heavily in CA and culturally they are clearly west coast.

[IlliniSaluki]

Well I think we all saw this one coming or potentially coming once Boise St. decided to get back/stay in the MWC..

SDSU voted back into the MWC and will not be moving to the Big East.

SDSU Reinstated into MWC. - ESPN

San Diego State will remain a member of the Mountain West Conference and will not join the Big East this fall.

The Mountain West's Board of Directors voted Wednesday afternoon to reinstate San Diego State this fall. The Aztecs were scheduled to leave the MWC and join the Big East on July 1 as a football-only member and the Big West in all other sports. However, the Aztecs will remain a member of the Mountain West in all sports.

[champaignchris]

So of the old 16 team WAC, 9 of them will be in the new 12 team MWC.

Utah (Pac 12), TCU (Big 12), Rice (C-USA), SMU (Big East), Tulsa (C-USA), BYU (indy), UTEP (C-USA) are out.

Boise St., Utah St. and Nevada are the three who weren't in the 16 team WAC - although all three were later members of the WAC.

[dgcrow]

MWC will probably be divided into two divisions for football, one in the Mountain time zone, and the other in the Pacific (plus Hawaii):

"East" - Air Force, New Mexico, Colorado State, Wyoming, Boise State, Utah State
"West" - Nevada, UNLV, Fresno State, San Jose State, San Diego State, Hawaii

[champaignchris]

So 12 out of 12 teams in the new MWC used to be in the WAC.

8 out of 11 teams that are supposed to be in the Big East as of 2015 (you never really know) will be former members of C-USA.

6 out of 14 (7 out of 15 in basketball) members of the ACC will be former members of the Big East.

The members of the old Big 8 conference the majority of whom had been together for 89 years are now split between 4 different conferences.

The 9 members of the old SWC the majority of whom were together for 82 years will soon be split between 4 different conferences.

[Sybok]

If BYU would rejoin the MWC and if MWC could find a decent 14th member, that conference should be good enough that no member considers leaving for the PAC12 or any other conference.

[jackman404]

Originally Posted by Sybok

If BYU would rejoin the MWC and if MWC could find a decent 14th member, that conference should be good enough that no member considers leaving for the PAC12 or any other conference.

Absolutely false. Every school in the Mountain West would SPRINT to the Pac-12 or the Big 12 if either one came calling.

That's like saying a Big East team wouldn't join the B1G if invited.

[bigwhitegiant]

Not sure if this has been discussed, but just heard a rumor about UVA to B1G as early as this coming week. Seems odd to me that they'd only add 1 school, but that's all I was told about.

I'd say take it with a grain of salt, but thought I'd share.

[trevdv]

Link? Proof? Reliable source?

I'll go ahead and take that with a grain of salt, thank you.

[illinoisportsfan]

Was this what you saw:

http://www.eersauthority.com/big-10-...d-acc-schools/

I found discussion about it on the Virginia board (thesabre.com). They didn't seem convinced.

[bigwhitegiant]

No, but that's interesting. My "source" is a buddy in Chicago who's roommate works at the B1G office. Again, it is the typical friend of a friend source and that's why I said take it with a grain of salt.

[illinitownie]

Yeah that does seem really strange unless they plan to add yet another team to make it 16. But I like UVA, except they're also orange and blue

[jackman404]

Originally Posted by illinitownie

Yeah that does seem really strange unless they plan to add yet another team to make it 16. But I like UVA, except they're also orange and blue

That actually isn't all that surprising. The two biggest fish to catch in the ACC are UNC and Notre Dame. Neither one is likely to START the fleeing from the ACC, but it's an entirely different story if the ACC is crumbling and the schools have to act to survive. UVA is a valuable enough school that they could cause the ACC to crumble, but doesn't hold enough power in the conference to stay just to keep that power (like UNC, similar to Texas in the Big 12).

Basically what I'm saying is that I think getting UNC is going to be a domino process, and UVA can be the first domino to get things going. Edit: The same goes for Notre Dame.