2017 Coaching Carousel

[HC Illini]

This is why I still don't mind the idea of Groce staying. It's not the X's and O's, it's the Jimmys and Joes. I don't really care who our coach is as long as he can bring in the players. I just really can't bear the thought of more botched recruiting years. Weber had a few, Groce had a really weak one in 2014 (although Finke and Black are a lot better than the 2006, 2008 or 2012 classes!). 2015 is looking pretty bad too, outside of JCL---although it seemed good at the time.

Groce finally has a class with stars at the 1 and 5, and a lot of downstate talent coming up in the next couple of years. I don't really care who our next coach is as long as he can get those guys. That's going to matter a lot more than anything else a coach does, IMO

Exactly! It's about the talent. If Groce adds Mark Smith and Liddell we have plenty of talent!

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

That's the only year he's had period so don't quite get your point.

He was head coach at North Texas and ISU also.

 

[rtbritt]

This is why I still don't mind the idea of Groce staying. It's not the X's and O's, it's the Jimmys and Joes. I don't really care who our coach is as long as he can bring in the players. I just really can't bear the thought of more botched recruiting years. Weber had a few, Groce had a really weak one in 2014 (although Finke and Black are a lot better than the 2006, 2008 or 2012 classes!). 2015 is looking pretty bad too, outside of JCL---although it seemed good at the time.

Groce finally has a class with stars at the 1 and 5, and a lot of downstate talent coming up in the next couple of years. I don't really care who our next coach is as long as he can get those guys. That's going to matter a lot more than anything else a coach does, IMO

You really think that X's and O's aren't important? Put Groce as head man right now at Duke or Kentucky, and they aren't quite in the same category they are now. Sure, players can give you a certain level of success, but the coach has to be the one who makes the team work. What Groce is doing here, clearly isn't working.

So maybe he has turned on the recruiting and is going to reel in some serious talent of the next few years, but without sustained success on the court, the recruits aren't going to regularly pick the Illini.

If it takes a new coach a few misses along the way due to lack of connections and relationships, but he has the ability to develop that, then it is worth it in the long run.

 

[IlliniFan17]

What about Nate Bjorkgren Suns assistant? Could Whitman possibly have met with him while in Phoenix? Seems like a winner who can coach and is young. Not sure he would have any interest in coaching college, or if he has any ties to help with recruiting. Just throwing out a name that hasn't been mentioned.

 

[Ga65]

Duke and Kentucky don't seem like good examples to me as they have all 5 stars and are always good but certainly not great. Whisky with Bo Ryan was good every year with less than 3 star avg. I am betting they will be less and less of a factor in BIG now that he has retired.

 

[Hoopster]

Duke and Kentucky don't seem like good examples to me as they have all 5 stars and are always good but certainly not great. Whisky with Bo Ryan was good every year with less than 3 star avg. I am betting they will be less and less of a factor in BIG now that he has retired.

That's it!! Let's get Bo out of retirement

 

[JudsonFTS]

A good coach.

Takes his own 5 and beats yours.
Takes your 5 and beats his.

Groce does neither. I was starting the catch the bug before Rutgers,,,but that team is putrid and we could not win a must win game.

 

[Obelix]

A good coach.

Takes his own 5 and beats yours.
Takes your 5 and beats his.

Groce does neither. I was starting the catch the bug before Rutgers,,,but that team is putrid and we could not win a must win game.

And what coach has actually shown results for that controlled experiment?

 

[PlayAZ]

Same point again. If schools and ADs could guarantee A NAME coach (as you say) before they would fire a coach, every other school would have done the same. Especially schools with more resources, boosters, money, and networking connections. Nobody would have risked. C'mon...

There are many NAME coaches out there....the problem to possibly Groce advantage and our disadvantage would be quite a few others will be looking for a BIG name candidate. Doesn't mean they cannot be had or are not out there though. I did not allude to the fact that one had to be guaranteed...I think Groce needs to go regardless, as really if Walker is kept on board, I don't think we lose anyone anyway...recruits that is.

This is a also an example as to someone like Matta (whom some say is in hot seat-I do not agree) will not be let go...to many schools will be looking at the same candidates.

 

[PostersLastStand]

I hate Crean, but he did have some major injury issues this year. That being said, I don't think he's a good coach. He's one of those guys who does little with a lot of talent pretty regularly. He's a much better recruiter than Groce, but they're both bad coaches.

I agree we don't want Crean . Besides he would be a spy for his obnoxious brother-in-law Hairball at Michigan. He isn't a better coach than Groce. Don't hire sideways hire upward.

 

[Obelix]

There are many NAME coaches out there....the problem to possibly Groce advantage and our disadvantage would be quite a few others will be looking for a BIG name candidate. Doesn't mean they cannot be had or are not out there though. I did not allude to the fact that one had to be guaranteed...I think Groce needs to go regardless, as really if Walker is kept on board, I don't think we lose anyone anyway...recruits that is.

This is a also an example as to someone like Matta (whom some say is in hot seat-I do not agree) will not be let go...to many schools will be looking at the same candidates.

Everyone wants a big name coach, yet only very few get a big name coach. Yet, you can end up with a coach who can take the program even lower. Guenther hit a home run with Self. Then struck out so badly that the program ended up worse than when he took over.

 

[Deleted member 626650]

I agree we don't want Crean . Besides he would be a spy for his obnoxious brother-in-law Hairball at Michigan. He isn't a better coach than Groce. Don't hire sideways hire upward.

You're right to not want Crean. He's a poor coach, but he's also been a thousand times more successful than Groce. That's how poor of coach Groce has been.

 

[PlayAZ]

Everyone wants a big name coach, yet only very few get a big name coach. Yet, you can end up with a coach who can take the program even lower. Guenther hit a home run with Self. Then struck out so badly that the program ended up worse than when he took over.

^^^ I agree with this, the only problem is there are not that many names bandied about that would take us lower imo and many others.

C Martin would take us lower? Don't think so his recruiting alone would better establish us even if he couldn't coach them any better...talent still wins more games.

B Howland would take us lower? Nope to established and proven already.

M Williams...NBA pedigree no way he takes us lower...

Hell even Wade, McCall, Keatts, Grant, and many others thrown around are simply just better, with just as good if not better resumes (albeit less HC experience), and have quite frankly proven more. Remember Groce only had 1 good year really at Ohio and then we hired him.... I would take any of the above names and 10 others probably that could be thrown out over Groce. MINUS B Weber though....

 

[JudsonFTS]

And what coach has actually shown results for that controlled experiment?

Is your point good coaching does not make a big difference or is your point there is no lab test for this?

I see it in AAU quite frequently where a clubs second team beats their first just because the lesser teams coach doesn't just roll the balls out and let them play. But by strict definition that would fail your scientific method requirement.

 

[PostersLastStand]

We just need more of this.

The remake of O Brother where Art Thou? Synchronized swimming for those who don't swim well. "I'm really not a strong swimmer".

 

[DoctorofJazz]

Another example of a top flight program lead by a less than stellar coach. When Guthridge was HC at UNC they got worse every regular season as well as in the ACC. Same with Doherty at UNC.

 

[PostersLastStand]

What about Jack Sikma? Midwest ties, should have been in the Hall Of Fame years ago, and has been coaching in the NBA as an asst coach for 11 years. Had sons that played in the AAU circuit so connections there as well as a current coach for the Toronto Raptors working with their big men. Played with Krystowiak in Milwaukee. Hasnt had any interest in college coaching but available.

I remember seeing Ridgeway beat St.Anne and slay Goliath (Jack Sikma)in 1973 when Channel 3 Harrisburg would broadcast the State Tournament. Great game. Second year of the two class system. Fun times.

 

[The Worm]

I find myself looking at this thread in particular with a feeling of uneasiness. I feel sick "hoping" for the Illini to lose and bring in a new coach, because I'm just a fan. I'm not a donor, hell, I'm not even an Alum, but I've been a fan since I was a kid. An ideal world for me right now is we make a run and somehow make the tournament so Malcolm and the rest of the seniors get to experience the tournament. Whitman knows Groce isn't the answer no matter the miracle run, and gives him to option to do resign because its a result oriented position and he knows he hasn't gotten it done to save face and the already lined up home run hire replacement is announced the next day. The recruiting class is wowed, if it hasn't already been communicated to them, they stay in tact, and Mark Smith announces within the week.

I'm fortunate to say that I'm a former D1, Mid Major baseball player whose team as a senior got to a winner goes to the tournament game and we lost. My class has the 2nd most wins as a class in my school history, but making the tournament would have meant everything to us and our legacy...and believe me, those things matter to the kids on the team.

Unfortunately, Malcolm should have had a Roger Powell type of career. Been on a team with a couple guys who were more talented, more athletic....it wouldn't change who he was. He'd still be a fringe NBA guy, long time Euro guy if he chose, loved by the fans, and most importantly, been on teams which made the tournament comfortably his entire career. Sure, he wouldn't be as high on the career scoring list, but we wouldn't be thinking of way to get him his only NCAA appearance and having most of us wish it didn't happen because then Groce is retained.

Well said, and echoes my feelings on what Malcolm Hill's role should have been here.

 

[PostersLastStand]

That's it!! Let's get Bo out of retirement

Wasn't Bo retired by the University because of a scandal involving an younger woman? Or am I thinking about 20 other DI coaching changes?

 

[Trakis]

Wasn't Bo retired by the University because of a scandal involving an younger woman? Or am I thinking about 20 other DI coaching changes?

I thought Bo just got bored and decided to quit mid-season since wisco was sucking.

 

[PostersLastStand]

I liked Lon Kruger and Bill Self, combine the two and you have close to my ideal coach. Maybe add some genes from Pat Riley for some great hair. Anyone fit that description.

 

[PostersLastStand]

I thought Bo just got bored and decided to quit mid-season since wisco was sucking.

I'm sure that was also part of it, but just couldn't stand to see him trolling our sidelines, he also looks like the Grinch from the original animated one, not the Jim Carey one.

 

[Rafale]

A good coach.

Takes his own 5 and beats yours.
Takes your 5 and beats his.

Groce does neither. I was starting the catch the bug before Rutgers,,,but that team is putrid and we could not win a must win game.

Groce takes his 5 and beats himself. Then takes your 5 and beats himself.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[zpfled]

You really think that X's and O's aren't important? Put Groce as head man right now at Duke or Kentucky, and they aren't quite in the same category they are now. Sure, players can give you a certain level of success, but the coach has to be the one who makes the team work. What Groce is doing here, clearly isn't working.

So maybe he has turned on the recruiting and is going to reel in some serious talent of the next few years, but without sustained success on the court, the recruits aren't going to regularly pick the Illini.

If it takes a new coach a few misses along the way due to lack of connections and relationships, but he has the ability to develop that, then it is worth it in the long run.

Of course they're somewhat important. But not even close to as important as players.

 

[zpfled]

A good coach.

Takes his own 5 and beats yours.
Takes your 5 and beats his.

Groce does neither. I was starting the catch the bug before Rutgers,,,but that team is putrid and we could not win a must win game.

Sooo...what percentage of coaches are good coaches, in your estimation? Your 'good coach' definition sounds like the definition of 'Hall of Fame Coach'.

Plus, in college, why do you need a coach who can win with any 5 guys, when the coach is responsible for assembling the team? I just want a coach who can get the best 5 guys, be at least Big-Ten-average in the in-game coaching department, and then beat other teams because he's better at recruiting.