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FBI College Basketball Corruption Investigation

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Old Oct 8, 2017, 11:24 AM   #1226
illinitiger
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ33 View Post
It's not a recruiting violation.

The point is that the agent commissions are not the biggest issue for Underwood (because he didn't benefit from them and it's really likely he didn't know about them.) The problem is that Evans may reveal recruiting violations when the Feds squeeze him. That's what Underwood has to worry about.
"agent commission" sounds so much nicer than "bribe". I still think the answer is give HS kids a more direct path to NBA and ability to get paid sooner, instead of forcing a year in college (reverse the one and done rule).

Just curious, are "agent commissions " legal for non-coaches...or is at all considered bribes?
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 12:00 PM   #1227
illinitiger
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Originally Posted by icengineer View Post
That it does!! In other fields it's called commissions, bonuses, finders fees, etc... Perfectly legal as long as you declare the income and pay your taxes on it. The main issue is that there are employees of Federally funded institutions (schools) accepting bribes which is totally illegal. And the money used for the bribes is being laundered, or hidden, by various financial entities including agents, financial advisors, shoe companies, etc...
OK,...apologize if I'm too geekish but Im really trying to understand the laws surrounding this stuff.

So given this legal explanation on bribe vs agent commission and assuming a legit agent (who claims commisions on their corp taxes)...

sounds like it would be legal for the agent to pre-pay an agent commission to Jawun Evans' mom or dad or previous AAU coach, but it is illegal for the asst coach (Lamont E.) to receive an agent commission since he works for a public institution ( OSU) that theoretically receives some federal funds as a learning institution, is that accurate?

Logically that would mean a non-public school such as Northwestern,.. the asst coach should be free to receive an agent commission anytime, since its not a public institution.

Is that accurate interpretation of the law?
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 12:23 PM   #1228
illinitiger
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Originally Posted by icengineer View Post
That it does!! In other fields it's called commissions, bonuses, finders fees, etc... Perfectly legal as long as you declare the income and pay your taxes on it. The main issue is that there are employees of Federally funded institutions (schools) accepting bribes which is totally illegal. And the money used for the bribes is being laundered, or hidden, by various financial entities including agents, financial advisors, shoe companies, etc...
found this law on agent trust.

doesnt exclude agent commissions, but does prevent agents from baiting student athletes or their associates with something of value before they sign a contract. If Lamont E. rec'd $ in advance, it would be a clear violation. Seems that if Lamont E. rec'd $ After agent contract signed, there would be no clear legal conflict.

https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/stat...lity-trust-act
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 12:56 PM   #1229
Calvin
Location: Michigan
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Originally Posted by illinitiger View Post
OK,...apologize if I'm too geekish but Im really trying to understand the laws surrounding this stuff.

So given this legal explanation on bribe vs agent commission and assuming a legit agent (who claims commisions on their corp taxes)...

sounds like it would be legal for the agent to pre-pay an agent commission to Jawun Evans' mom or dad or previous AAU coach, but it is illegal for the asst coach (Lamont E.) to receive an agent commission since he works for a public institution ( OSU) that theoretically receives some federal funds as a learning institution, is that accurate?

Logically that would mean a non-public school such as Northwestern,.. the asst coach should be free to receive an agent commission anytime, since its not a public institution.

Is that accurate interpretation of the law?
I am not a lawyer, but I don't think public/private is as you suggest. For example, Title IX applies to all educational institutions that receive federal funds, which I'm sure Northwestern does.

The issue is a person in a federally funded job, even if indirectly or partially or both, is engaged in bribery (not necessarily $, but anything that is greater than nominal value, such as an athlete's services). If the typical scheme is for an assistant coach to offer $ to an agent to 'deliver' an athlete to a university, and then reciprocate by sending that athlete back to the agent, that's a bribe.

Note that this type of arrangement could be done above board, were it not for the NCAA getting in the way (see the baseball or hockey draft as an example). It's a bribe because the parties are doing it in secret from their respective universities, which are using public funds. Because the universities are excluded, the coaches and agents are defrauding them, and by extension, the public.
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 01:33 PM   #1230
illinitiger
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Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
I am not a lawyer, but I don't think public/private is as you suggest. For example, Title IX applies to all educational institutions that receive federal funds, which I'm sure Northwestern does.

The issue is a person in a federally funded job, even if indirectly or partially or both, is engaged in bribery (not necessarily $, but anything that is greater than nominal value, such as an athlete's services). If the typical scheme is for an assistant coach to offer $ to an agent to 'deliver' an athlete to a university, and then reciprocate by sending that athlete back to the agent, that's a bribe.

Note that this type of arrangement could be done above board, were it not for the NCAA getting in the way (see the baseball or hockey draft as an example). It's a bribe because the parties are doing it in secret from their respective universities, which are using public funds. Because the universities are excluded, the coaches and agents are defrauding them, and by extension, the public.
Thanks for well thought out response Calvin. Makes sense.

Next study is to better understand legalities surrounding a shoe company paying a mom or dad or aau coach who dont have any fed institutional affiliation.... paying for the family and/or kids future loyalty to the shoe co and associated schools.
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 03:13 PM   #1231
FiveStar
Location: Austin
Also remember usc is a private school and they got busted.
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 07:06 PM   #1232
Innocent Primate
For those of a legal bent, here is a copy (in pdf format) of one of the federal complaints with reference to a couple of the assistant coaches, which you can download to your computer. The complaint indicates the legal theories and statutory bases upon which the feds rely. (I assume these are the same as to all the assistant coaches.)

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr...98756/download

I believe the basis for the charges against the shoe company personnel is fraud by use of means of interstate commerce (wire fraud). The fraud consists of the fact that bribes which rendered the athletes ineligible under NCAA rules were paid to athletes and their families to steer the athletes to certain universities. The contention is that the universities were defrauded as a result of extending benefits to those ineligible for such benefits.
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Old Oct 8, 2017, 08:17 PM   #1233
illinitiger
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Originally Posted by Innocent Primate View Post
For those of a legal bent, here is a copy (in pdf format) of one of the federal complaints with reference to a couple of the assistant coaches, which you can download to your computer. The complaint indicates the legal theories and statutory bases upon which the feds rely. (I assume these are the same as to all the assistant coaches.)

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr...98756/download

I believe the basis for the charges against the shoe company personnel is fraud by use of means of interstate commerce (wire fraud). The fraud consists of the fact that bribes which rendered the athletes ineligible under NCAA rules were paid to athletes and their families to steer the athletes to certain universities. The contention is that the universities were defrauded as a result of extending benefits to those ineligible for such benefits.
Thanks for the info. So families and shoe companies committed fraud (offenders), and the universities were defrauded ( victims) in these shoe co. fraud schemes.

I didnt previously view the likes of Louisville as "defrauded" victim by the likes of Bowen's family and Adidas (or other shoe cos). I guess it gets a little uglier when the schools have knowledge of or request the shoe company influence.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 10:43 AM   #1234
CHI 1086
We Ready
Location: Merced CA
An institution does not have to a public one to receive federal funding in some form. Plenty of private organizations, to include schools, receive federal funds in some form. The laws still apply.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 11:38 AM   #1235
geneseo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocent Primate View Post
For those of a legal bent, here is a copy (in pdf format) of one of the federal complaints with reference to a couple of the assistant coaches, which you can download to your computer. The complaint indicates the legal theories and statutory bases upon which the feds rely. (I assume these are the same as to all the assistant coaches.)

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr...98756/download

I believe the basis for the charges against the shoe company personnel is fraud by use of means of interstate commerce (wire fraud). The fraud consists of the fact that bribes which rendered the athletes ineligible under NCAA rules were paid to athletes and their families to steer the athletes to certain universities. The contention is that the universities were defrauded as a result of extending benefits to those ineligible for such benefits.
It might be interesting if one of the accused requested a trial and let the prosecutors explain the above to a jury. I'd also like to see one of the accused give the prosecutors exactly what they say they want, that is, to name names, not in the secrecy of a prosecutor's office, but in open court where they can't control the narrative. The damage to the revenue of the ncaa and its member institutions might reach into the billions.
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Old Oct 9, 2017, 11:40 AM   #1236
EJ33
Location: San Francisco
Quote:
Originally Posted by icengineer View Post
Why would the Feds give two hoots about NCAA violations? It's the money laundering and bribery which are federal crimes that they are policing. Sure, I can see how some NCCA violations come out in the course of things, but that will be incidental. The FBI couldn't care less about NCAA infractions, the vast majority of which are not crimes in the legal sense.
This is the concern for coaches like Underwood. Agreed that it's not the main interest of the Feds, but it is part of the system that creates the space for illegal activities.

The illegal agent kickbacks, bribes, or whatever you want to call them are not going to come back on Underwood.
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Old Oct 10, 2017, 08:06 AM   #1237
miketherevelator
miketherevelator's Avatar
Location: Aurora
FBI investigation sending shockwaves through 2018 recruits

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/r...-2018-recruits
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Old Oct 10, 2017, 03:40 PM   #1238
Robert68
Cognitive dissonance is the phrase that comes to mind when reading that article.
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Old Oct 10, 2017, 09:30 PM   #1239
PlayAZ
Not sure where to post, but St Louis has closed practices with 4 men's basketball players suspected/accused/investigated for possible sexual assaults. No names given as of yet.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...lt-allegations
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 06:18 AM   #1240
jmilt7
jmilt7's Avatar
Location: Waukegan
Former college basketball coach believes FBI investigation could get 50 coaches fired. The author does not mention who this former coach is. And he is including assistant coaches in that number.

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2017/10/1...source=twitter
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 06:33 AM   #1241
illiniguy24
illiniguy24's Avatar
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Originally Posted by jmilt7 View Post
Former college basketball coach believes FBI investigation could get 50 coaches fired. The author does not mention who this former coach is. And he is including assistant coaches in that number.

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2017/10/1...source=twitter


That would be something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 10:35 AM   #1242
BigJIllini
NewsOK‏
@NewsOK

BREAKING: New York grand jury looking for NCAA violations by OSU basketball players

http://newsok.com/article/5567594?ut...areBar-Twitter

Last edited by Dan; Oct 11, 2017 at 02:24 PM.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 10:41 AM   #1243
TheGMan
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Originally Posted by BigJIllini View Post
Have a bad feeling we are going to be looking for a new basketball coach again sooner than we thought.

NewsOK‏
@NewsOK

BREAKING: New York grand jury looking for NCAA violations by OSU basketball players

http://newsok.com/article/5567594?ut...areBar-Twitter
So basically Lamont Evans sang like a canary.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 10:42 AM   #1244
TCTORNADO
Oh Boy, not good!!
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 10:44 AM   #1245
BigJIllini
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGMan View Post
So basically Lamont Evans sang like a canary.
Yep, probably so.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 10:45 AM   #1246
TheGMan
Especially since, of all the colleges that are known to be involved and under investigation, the only one that I know that is being put in front of a grand jury is OSU. So either OSU did the worst actions, or is the only one that they can get anything on right now. Either way, it is just Illinois’ luck.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 10:46 AM   #1247
Whitman2020
Banned
Step away form the ledge, crazies.

Last edited by Whitman2020; Oct 11, 2017 at 10:51 AM.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 10:50 AM   #1248
TheGMan
Normally I try to be level headed with these things. But this isn’t good. Underwood might not get brought into the bribery scandal. But this increases the chances that he gets hit with NCAA sanctions. At the very least for having lack of institutional control.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 10:53 AM   #1249
foby
Location: Sin City
Quote:
Originally Posted by icengineer View Post
I wouldn't doubt that every single school connected to the case up to this point has received, or will receive, the same subpoena.

I don't think that this implicates Underwood any more than previously. This is all just a waiting game. And if this whole investigation has far reaching repercussions and creates massive turnover in the coaching ranks as some suggest, I think it will be a while. Like after the season. Until something happens, I think we just carry on as usual. If the hammer drops, it drops, and we deal with it then.
The voice of reason.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 11:01 AM   #1250
miketherevelator
miketherevelator's Avatar
Location: Aurora
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGMan View Post
So basically Lamont Evans sang like a canary.
They're all going to. Basketball coaches do not ever expect to face heavy prison time. That's why the estimate of coaches and asst coaches going down has ranged up to 150.
Those of you who think this isn't eventually going to touch Underwood are living in a dreamworld.
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