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Old Feb 8, 2018, 10:24 PM   #2701
thunderwear
Quote:
Originally Posted by chief2007 View Post
You state Lovie isn't getting classes ranked any higher than Beckman and needs to win to get better classes. Next years team will be lucky to get 3 wins. They aren't bringing in elite talent that can elevate the team translating into more wins. It does not look like Lovie is the answer on the college level.
This team wonít win next year and we will have a better recruiting class. This isnít basketball. You canít pick up a few top recruits and compete for a national title. Freshmen generally donít start and rarely make it to the field until their second year. This team finally has a foundation to build from. By 2019 we will have a team that competes. 2020 will mark our first of many relevant football teams. If this doesnít happen, then it will be a sign that lovie is on the tail end of his time at Illinois. Complaining about 2 top 50 classes, one with 11 freshmen award winners is ridiculous. Expecting us to win after one full year with lovie as coach with MAC level talent is laughable.
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Old Feb 8, 2018, 11:09 PM   #2702
lexwaldez
lexwaldez's Avatar
Location: Illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod2010 View Post
Everyone, I have it figured out. We need more coaching turnover. A new HC every two years (three tops) should do the trick. It keeps our image and narrative fresh.

Josh, I want you on this plan yesterday!
*slow clap*
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Old Feb 9, 2018, 03:23 AM   #2703
practispractispractice
I think we are going to be good, but, at this rate, wake me up in ...never mind, all the other big 14 teams are way ahead of us in both good and bad ways. I cannot take one more 40 point loss or two point loss with people saying, hey, ...ten 2 point losses aren't bad..we are better. So is EVERYONE else.
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Old Feb 9, 2018, 06:42 AM   #2704
squeezegame
a competent quarterback

and lovie has more wins already. We had a young defense playing well at times, that just had to be on the field a lot, b/c teams could tee off on the run. no one to throw the ball. then the defense had to get right back on the field, and they're not big ten shape yet.

now... i do fault him for whiffing in illinois. he was the BEARS head coach! but he needs some recruiters on staff, and they've arrived. but i'm not grading him til year 5
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Old Feb 9, 2018, 09:11 AM   #2705
thunderwear
Quote:
Originally Posted by squeezegame View Post
and lovie has more wins already. We had a young defense playing well at times, that just had to be on the field a lot, b/c teams could tee off on the run. no one to throw the ball. then the defense had to get right back on the field, and they're not big ten shape yet.

now... i do fault him for whiffing in illinois. he was the BEARS head coach! but he needs some recruiters on staff, and they've arrived. but i'm not grading him til year 5
I think this is a fair assessment, but two things to consider.

On whiffing in Illinois:
The first year he arrived, most of the prominent Illinois players had chosen colleges. This year Illinois was light and Illinois football brand is garbage. I think Lovie made some inroads and we will get more Illinois commits next year.

On being the Bears coach:
Lovie was head coach when most of these kids were in Middle School. I think the Tampa Bay HC, has helped us with Florida, but the Bears HC, I don't think, will be as prominent for us in Illinois.

But I do agree, he needs to work on both of these areas. I am sure he is aware that he needs to work on these areas.
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Old Feb 9, 2018, 10:10 AM   #2706
blmillini
Banned
Location: Bloomington, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderwear View Post
I think this is a fair assessment, but two things to consider.

On whiffing in Illinois:
The first year he arrived, most of the prominent Illinois players had chosen colleges. This year Illinois was light and Illinois football brand is garbage. I think Lovie made some inroads and we will get more Illinois commits next year.

On being the Bears coach:
Lovie was head coach when most of these kids were in Middle School. I think the Tampa Bay HC, has helped us with Florida, but the Bears HC, I don't think, will be as prominent for us in Illinois.

But I do agree, he needs to work on both of these areas. I am sure he is aware that he needs to work on these areas.
I think you are right and everyone can see it, including Lovie. I like the fact that his staff seems to be building relationships, that people are listening, that he went out and hired an OC that has a reputation for developing QB's, that he went out and hired another assistant with strong ties in St. Louis, that he is not panicking and that Wittman is not panicking either. Except for the emotional fans and boosters that keep trying to get in the way, I think they are doing it right! I don't expect this next season to be very successful in the W/L column but I do expect to start seeing fruit in the following year.
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Old Feb 9, 2018, 10:44 AM   #2707
mhuml32
mhuml32's Avatar
Location: Lubbock, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderwear View Post
I think this is a fair assessment, but two things to consider.

On whiffing in Illinois:
The first year he arrived, most of the prominent Illinois players had chosen colleges. This year Illinois was light and Illinois football brand is garbage. I think Lovie made some inroads and we will get more Illinois commits next year.

On being the Bears coach:
Lovie was head coach when most of these kids were in Middle School. I think the Tampa Bay HC, has helped us with Florida, but the Bears HC, I don't think, will be as prominent for us in Illinois.

But I do agree, he needs to work on both of these areas. I am sure he is aware that he needs to work on these areas.

Regardless to the depth of Illinois recruiting talent, they need to find a way to convince more top-10 players to come to Illinois. Would gladly add any of these recruits to the incoming class.


Luke Ford
Quincy Patterson
Devin O'Rourke
Jack Sanborn
Micah Jones
Elijah Teague
Jeffrey Jenkins
Bryce Effner
Mik O'Laughlin
Wyatt Blake
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Old Feb 9, 2018, 11:51 AM   #2708
TheGMan
http://picksixpreviews.com/how_to_wi...ecruiting.html

Interesting article about the top football brands according to a relatively small sample sized pool of recruits. Illinois is 62 out of 65.
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Old Feb 9, 2018, 12:06 PM   #2709
thunderwear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhuml32 View Post
Regardless to the depth of Illinois recruiting talent, they need to find a way to convince more top-10 players to come to Illinois. Would gladly add any of these recruits to the incoming class.


Luke Ford
Quincy Patterson
Devin O'Rourke
Jack Sanborn
Micah Jones
Elijah Teague
Jeffrey Jenkins
Bryce Effner
Mik O'Laughlin
Wyatt Blake
I am not a talent scout, but I would tend to agree, especially the recruits that we went hard after, like Luke Ford,etc. Lovie and staff need to work on improving their inroads to Illinois. I don't think anyone disagrees with that and I am pretty sure Lovie has said it on more than one occasion. And we have the added obstacle of tough admission standards. We can't go after lots of top talent because they don't have the grades.

But, ultimately, we can't afford to have people in the program that don't want to be in a rebuild. We wont win games next year. We may not win many the year after (5-6 wins). Grinding every day is challenging when you are winning, it is much harder when you are losing. We need players that can see the difference they are going to make and want the challenge. It is not for everyone.

As a turnaround consultant, every turnaround I participate in is intense. Many of them, the talent is in place and may be intense, but because the talent is there the turnaround is short. There have been a handful of turnarounds I have made where I needed to burn the place to the ground. The first time, I tried to keep everyone and kept them all for 1 year and then I realized how much those people tainted the next group in. I had to burn the place to the ground after one year and restart. I believe having people that believe and want to be there is key and getting rid of everyone else is key too.

But, even if we don't bring in any Illinois talent, I would be ok if we start winning, which is really the issue everyone (including me) has. I believe in the work Lovie has done so far, but in all honesty, I don't think we can tell how good or bad Lovie is doing until after 2019 or 2020 campaign. At this point, we just have to wait. We have waited this long. I can't imagine more turnover at coach would help the program. If in 2019 we are not winning Big ten games, then we go a different direction. By my observation, pertaining to the turnaround, I don't think anything looks off. But, I don't know talent and I only have ancillary knowledge on Football.
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Old Feb 9, 2018, 12:12 PM   #2710
South Farms
Location: south of Curtis, off 1st
Barry Alvarez took over a bad Wiscy team in Jan 1990
1990 1-10, 0-8 (overall, conf)
1991 5-6, 2-6
1992 5-6 3-5

1991 featured
31-13 win vs WIU
7-6 win vs Iowa St
21-6 win vs Eastern Mich
19-16 win over Minny (1-7 in conference that year)
32-14 win over Nothwestern (2-8 in conference that year)

1992 featured
39-18 win vs Bowling Green
18-17 win vs NIU
20-16 win over O$U (5-2-1 that year)
19-16 win vs Purdue (3-5)
34-6 win over Minny (2-6)
25-27 loss to Northwestern (3-5)

This is about as similar a situation that Lovie walked into. Alvarez had probably a more than a little edge on Lovie , college coaching-wise, as he had been a college LB coach at Iowa under Fry from 79-86, LB coach in 87 and then DC in 88-89 at NotreDame under Holtz. Those jobs, and the timing of when he got the Wiscy job (normal college carousel), allowed him to at least do a little recruiting.

Although Wiscy fans were al least given a little more to cheer about in year 2 than we were, they were not ready to crown him a god . They were still very skeptical.

Then the 1993 team caught lightning in a bottle and tied for 1st in the B1G and went to the Rose Bowl. That was what earned him the goodwill of the fandom and to his credit started winning more games than he lost most years thereafter.

Lovie needs to get the benefit of 5 years. We need to win a couple B1G games this year and anything less than 4-8 will be disappointing to most. No one is expecting much more than that.

Our situation in March 2016, was seriously about as dire a scenario for a Power 5 school , that I can recall , in the last 15 years. Right there with Kansas , in fact, worse imo. They don't have an anxious football fandom like we do. They are 100% all about hoops there.

Done correctly and within the rules, its not a quick fix with us. Our admin screwed the pooch when Mackovic left and then Turner and Guenther did the same after 2001. The football guy can be blamed for most of the mess we are in.
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Old Feb 9, 2018, 01:55 PM   #2711
Centennial Illini
Thunderwears post should be in all caps.

Several years ago there was an article on the worst team in Illinois history, Ron Turner's first year winless bunch, They quoted a senior on that team as saying we could have won some games that year but Turner ran off a bunch of experienced middling players because in the senior's words "they had gotten used to losing".

Turner didn't want the new recruits tainted by the by the holdovers.

I can't prove it but I am sure that a few of our transfers this fall may fall into that category.

Its a cultural thing
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Old Feb 10, 2018, 08:16 PM   #2712
IlliniBrave75
IlliniBrave75's Avatar
Jeremy Werner
@JWerner247

3m
BREAKING: #illini add CB Dylan Wyatt to Class of 2018, fifth Californian to join the class
(link: https://247sports.com/college/illino...2018-114571412) 247sports.com/college/illino…
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Old Feb 10, 2018, 09:54 PM   #2713
thunderwear
Quote:
Originally Posted by IlliniBrave75 View Post
Jeremy Werner
@JWerner247

3m
BREAKING: #illini add CB Dylan Wyatt to Class of 2018, fifth Californian to join the class
(link: https://247sports.com/college/illino...2018-114571412) 247sports.com/college/illinoÖ
His film looks decent, does anyone know why he is ranked so low?
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Old Feb 11, 2018, 12:10 PM   #2714
SescIllini
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henson71 View Post
Lovie shouldn't get any excuses, these recruiting classes just aren't that special. Beckman wasn't getting higher ranked classes than this. I think the fear that the splash of the hire of Lovie would be dampened by his staff's lack of experience in college recruiting has come to fruition.

That said, nothing builds excitement like wining and now over half the players are his recruits, so if he can win with them despite the rankings, the excitement will grow and he'll get better players. Plus, it seems he's emphasizing recruiting with his most recent hires which is good.
I've compared Lovie's recruits with Beckman and overall through 2000. First of all Lovie's freshmen saw the field and many overtook starting jobs from Beckman's. Many of Beckman's top players proved overrated or didn't pan out. Lovie players look the part of BIG players. The O and D line have bigger players. Lovie seems to be on even ground recruiting Illinois next year. I expevt this year he will get some top 10 players.
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Old Feb 11, 2018, 01:38 PM   #2715
thunderwear
Quote:
Originally Posted by SescIllini View Post
I've compared Lovie's recruits with Beckman and overall through 2000. First of all Lovie's freshmen saw the field and many overtook starting jobs from Beckman's. Many of Beckman's top players proved overrated or didn't pan out. Lovie players look the part of BIG players. The O and D line have bigger players. Lovie seems to be on even ground recruiting Illinois next year. I expevt this year he will get some top 10 players.
Top 10? Do you have inside information or are you being optimistic? I would imagine Top 10 players would be interested in winning more than rebuilding.
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Old Feb 11, 2018, 02:31 PM   #2716
lexwaldez
lexwaldez's Avatar
Location: Illinois
Here's an interesting link http://picksixpreviews.com/how_to_wi...ecruiting.html It takes time to change perceptions. I think this illustrates why we're looking for diamonds in the rough, underrated and overlooked players, and why we've got to do a better job coaching them up to their maximum potential. We've gotta crawl out of the bottom five and into the top half. It took decades to drive this program into the basement of the power five; it'll probably take the better part of a decade to crawl out. I am grateful we have such a talented, dedicated staff working on our behalf right now.
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Old Feb 11, 2018, 04:58 PM   #2717
BRucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderwear View Post
His film looks decent, does anyone know why he is ranked so low?
Bad hair?
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Old Feb 11, 2018, 06:12 PM   #2718
South Farms
Location: south of Curtis, off 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderwear View Post
His film looks decent, does anyone know why he is ranked so low?
He went to a college academy high school . Often times those type of schools play in obscure leagues , against suspect competition. At least they do in Illinois . That could explain part of his ranking .

It would be like us getting a player from Uni High , U of Chicago lab school , or North Shore Country Day. Doubt they would have a high ranking either, no matter how good they were .
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Old Feb 12, 2018, 03:56 PM   #2719
Mike55
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderwear View Post
His film looks decent, does anyone know why he is ranked so low?
They like his height, speed and potential.

Low ranking was due to lack of exposure.
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Old Feb 12, 2018, 04:55 PM   #2720
JDHalfrack
Location: Springfield, IL
I'm gonna say it right now: in 3 years, people are gonna look back at this class and talk about how good this class was even though it was ranked 51st (or whatever). I'm no expert, but I like a lot of the players we signed. I like our coaches and think we can turn a lot of these 3* into 3.5* and 4* players.

I mean, I get that we have a class ranked lower than a lot of B1G teams, but I trust our coaches a hell of a lot more than I trust theirs.
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Old Feb 12, 2018, 04:56 PM   #2721
TexasIllini
I saw Tyrik Henderson committed to Minnesota, but then decommitted. Illinois never pursued, or even showed interest. He still remains uncommitted. I assume he has grade issues? He's top 10 recruit in Illinois in 2018.
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Old Feb 12, 2018, 07:25 PM   #2722
thunderwear
Quote:
Originally Posted by South Farms View Post
He went to a college academy high school . Often times those type of schools play in obscure leagues , against suspect competition. At least they do in Illinois . That could explain part of his ranking .

It would be like us getting a player from Uni High , U of Chicago lab school , or North Shore Country Day. Doubt they would have a high ranking either, no matter how good they were .
That speed and height though
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Old Feb 13, 2018, 08:02 AM   #2723
Mike55
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderwear View Post
That speed and height though
Simply sharing what I hear from staff.
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Old Feb 13, 2018, 09:38 AM   #2724
Illiniguy13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Mitch McNutt joins Illinois Football as a preferred walk-on

https://twitter.com/IlliniHQ/status/961341966209470467
2018 All-Name Team
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Old Feb 13, 2018, 11:17 AM   #2725
South Farms
Location: south of Curtis, off 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illiniguy13 View Post
2018 All-Name Team
brought back memories of a kid Turner signed back in the mid 90's, Antoine McNutt who was about 380 lbs. We signed him from CVS I believe. He ended up transferring out about 1/2 way through. We was Fridge Perry size.
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