It will be a great story for Coach Drew in his first year. Hopefully he'll be able to capitalize on the momentum, other coaches at Illinois haven't parlayed that first year success into much.
John Groce at Illinois
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It will be a great story for Coach Drew in his first year. Hopefully he'll be able to capitalize on the momentum, other coaches at Illinois haven't parlayed that first year success into much.
Sal Iacuzzo
- Yonkers, NY
I'd be ecstatic if we hired Bryce Drew.
Sal Iacuzzo
- Yonkers, NY
Weber only recruited two true point guards in 9 years.
URH Snyder 490
Orange Crush '89
- Northern Illinois
Nailed it
Exactly. The only way our fan base can truly get their way is if we hire a cheater. Sure we will hang a NC banner in a few years, but five years later the NCAA will bring the hammer down on us and guess what; that banner comes down from the SFC rafters and its wiped from the record books. Then we are right back to where we were before. 0 championships.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
Considering our past history with the NCAA (Slush Fund, Bruce Pearl/Deon Thomas), if we ever got caught cheating again, I wouldn't be surprised if they gave us the death penalty. (By the way, I know we didn't cheat with Deon, but if they gave us stiff penalties then for a "lack of institutional control", imagine what they would do if we did cheat).
What makes Leonard more of a true center than Pruitt? Pruitt was extremely effective scoring down low, banging, getting strong rebounds (esp. offensively), playing with his back to the basket.
Tisdale was too skinny for a while at Illinois, and he could shoot well from the top of the key, but he also made a lot of his living off posting up and finishing with that nice little baby hook of his.
Honestly, I think Weber did pretty well recruiting Centers. Carlwell may or may not have been good if the accident didn't occur, but Weber had three good centers. Sure, they all had flaws. But if Tisdale and Pruitt aren't 'true centers' then I don't know what a center is.
matt1all
- Chicago, IL
Groce needs at least one more year, I do not think the recruiting has been as bad as people say. JCL and Nunn can both really play, and JCL could be better than any recent player we've had, by the time it is all said and done. I think Jordan will be able to contribute by next year, and be a solid Big Ten player his Jr/Sr years. Finke could really be an offensive stud in a few years, and is already contributing. I don't count Hill, since he committed under Weber, if I remember correctly. As everyone has said, Groce has been completely riddled with injuries, and a few transfers did not work out. I think losing Paul was devastating for this year. Have to figure the projected top 6 this season in no order were: Hill, Nunn, Abrams(out), Paul(out), Thorne(out), Black(out). Then, you figure in your only true point guard and Nunn also missing some key games.
However, I think the biggest factor for keeping Groce is that this is not an attractive job. Who is going to want to come here that is worthwhile? Just doesn't make since to me right now.
However, I think the biggest factor for keeping Groce is that this is not an attractive job. Who is going to want to come here that is worthwhile? Just doesn't make since to me right now.
Okay, here's my case for retaining Groce
1. He's got three years on his deal after this one. You don't need to extend him, and you're not chopping his recruiting legs off. Unlike recent Illini messes, inaction is a viable strategy in this case.
2. The most important short-to-medium term goal for the athletic department as a whole is to create and reflect stability and competence. There is no more turbulent, higher stakes time for an athletic department than a coaching search. We can all but guarantee we're going to go through that after next football season, forcing a new hire to do that twice in his first 10 months on the job seems insane. There are 11 games left and we have no AD. Can we really say that new person is making an informed decision?
3. Because of the unfortunate state of things and the furious insanity of the fanbase, the new AD's fate and viability is going to be completely tied to the immediate results of the two coaches he's going to have to hire. This guy and both of his hires could be dead men walking by December 2017, without even having had a chance. That is the worst case scenario. Always avoid the worst case scenario.
4. There is so much death and destruction around the program that I fear the 2017 class is a disaster waiting to happen regardless of the coach. Frank Williams' son committing somewhere other than Illinois would be a new low recruiting-wise, and the coach that happens to will never win back the fanbase. Let that fate, if it is to occur, befall Groce and not the next guy. If the next 13 months are going to suck, it's infinitely better not to hand that turd to someone we want to have the credibility to build it back up.
5. We will have a fully constructed, bells and whistles installed SFC to sell to a coach after next season as opposed to the very exciting construction site we have currently. And in any event, a coaching search is a long-term process, I feel. Especially for someone like Tiley or Whitman who would be a rookie at this. Another crap season isn't going to tank the stock of the Illinois job more than a year of prep and networking and information gathering would improve the quality of decision-making the new AD would be able to make.
6. We'll have a new Chancellor by next season and Barb Wilson will be back to thumb wrestling in LAS.
7. And finally, on a basketball level, do I think we have any hope of massive improvement next year under Groce? Not really. But it's POSSIBLE. All the crap they've gone through this year isn't an excuse for how bad it's been, but take that stuff away with a more experienced group next year and maybe we see SOMETHING.
So anyway, those are my thoughts. There's no question Groce "deserves" to be fired, but what he deserves and what's in the long-term best interest of Illinois Athletics are divergent at this point, IMO. It's not the end of the world if he comes back. He's not Beckman, I don't hate the guy. I don't think the fan outcry for a brand new AD who just stepped in the door retaining a likable coach on the basis of "this season was FUBAR from the jump and I haven't seen what he can do yet" would be that severe. No worse than what it already is, certainly.
1. He's got three years on his deal after this one. You don't need to extend him, and you're not chopping his recruiting legs off. Unlike recent Illini messes, inaction is a viable strategy in this case.
2. The most important short-to-medium term goal for the athletic department as a whole is to create and reflect stability and competence. There is no more turbulent, higher stakes time for an athletic department than a coaching search. We can all but guarantee we're going to go through that after next football season, forcing a new hire to do that twice in his first 10 months on the job seems insane. There are 11 games left and we have no AD. Can we really say that new person is making an informed decision?
3. Because of the unfortunate state of things and the furious insanity of the fanbase, the new AD's fate and viability is going to be completely tied to the immediate results of the two coaches he's going to have to hire. This guy and both of his hires could be dead men walking by December 2017, without even having had a chance. That is the worst case scenario. Always avoid the worst case scenario.
4. There is so much death and destruction around the program that I fear the 2017 class is a disaster waiting to happen regardless of the coach. Frank Williams' son committing somewhere other than Illinois would be a new low recruiting-wise, and the coach that happens to will never win back the fanbase. Let that fate, if it is to occur, befall Groce and not the next guy. If the next 13 months are going to suck, it's infinitely better not to hand that turd to someone we want to have the credibility to build it back up.
5. We will have a fully constructed, bells and whistles installed SFC to sell to a coach after next season as opposed to the very exciting construction site we have currently. And in any event, a coaching search is a long-term process, I feel. Especially for someone like Tiley or Whitman who would be a rookie at this. Another crap season isn't going to tank the stock of the Illinois job more than a year of prep and networking and information gathering would improve the quality of decision-making the new AD would be able to make.
6. We'll have a new Chancellor by next season and Barb Wilson will be back to thumb wrestling in LAS.
7. And finally, on a basketball level, do I think we have any hope of massive improvement next year under Groce? Not really. But it's POSSIBLE. All the crap they've gone through this year isn't an excuse for how bad it's been, but take that stuff away with a more experienced group next year and maybe we see SOMETHING.
So anyway, those are my thoughts. There's no question Groce "deserves" to be fired, but what he deserves and what's in the long-term best interest of Illinois Athletics are divergent at this point, IMO. It's not the end of the world if he comes back. He's not Beckman, I don't hate the guy. I don't think the fan outcry for a brand new AD who just stepped in the door retaining a likable coach on the basis of "this season was FUBAR from the jump and I haven't seen what he can do yet" would be that severe. No worse than what it already is, certainly.
Whole lotta logic in this post. Kudos.
This all speculation of course but with a healthy Abrams, Thorne, and Black we beat UNF and UTC. We win at Prov. We win at least one and maybe both of OSU. We win at home against Nebby. We might have beaten UND in the Challenge. This team is 15-6 to 17-4, getting top 25 votes, is in the upper half of the B1G and headed towards the Dance.
I wonder about JG's offense and other coaching strategies. He was billed as a great recruiter and is not. Good enough yes, great no.
But with all the injuries he has to get another year. He has to hit a home run with the 2017 class, and will need to find a 5th yr big to help out next year.
5 years to put a program together is long enough. Top half of the B1G, solid incoming class, and solidly in the Tourney or bust.
I wonder about JG's offense and other coaching strategies. He was billed as a great recruiter and is not. Good enough yes, great no.
But with all the injuries he has to get another year. He has to hit a home run with the 2017 class, and will need to find a 5th yr big to help out next year.
5 years to put a program together is long enough. Top half of the B1G, solid incoming class, and solidly in the Tourney or bust.
If Thorne didnt go down against IA St, we probably are looking at record of around 16-5; 14-7 at worst. His injury was the ultimate dagger to this season.
The last straw so to speak, no doubt.
matt1all
- Chicago, IL
This should be required reading for Illinois Loyalty. I agree with all of this.
We were 3-3 with Thorne when he went down in the Iowa St game, which we were losing at the time (even though it was close). So you think we would have gone 13-2 since then, including that Iowa St game? Really? I don't see how a 3-3 team that lost to North Florida and Chattanooga, and barely beat Chicago St., would have turned things around and gone 13-2. There are many more problems with this team besides no Thorne.
To be fair that 3-3 team had no Nunn. Having both Nunn and Thorne would have a large impact. 13-2 would be a bit optimistic but there is no denying we would be a much improved team if healthy.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
Agreed. Its amazing how quickly people forget that we didn't have Nunn at the start of the season. If you don't think Nunn and his 18 ppg could have made a difference in those games (especially when you consider that Groce was playing Austin 20+ minutes a game as a result), then you have blinders on.
Assuming we get an AD, I wonder how much attendance figures into any decision that's made. Just scanning the attendance figures, we're down about 2k from recent history, and I have to believe that figure will only go trend down for the rest of the season. If you figure $25 avg seat, that's approaching a million for a season just on tickets.
So the fact that the Illini competed with a top 15 team with Nunn, Tate, and Black all less than 100% does not mean anything to you? Oh and don't forget the 3 inexperienced freshmen and walkon that got minutes. Some people here are delirious. Groce gets a pass this year. Next season we'll talk.
Great post.
No matter what happens this year Groce's leash will be extremely short next year and deservedly so. But this post is a great logical exercise in why after this year it wouldn't be a good year to cut ties.
Unless you have a home-run hire as a 100% go and the finances are in place (in the state of IL, mind you) Groce gets 2016-2017 and it's do or die.
I hope he 'do's' because I don't want to go through another embarrassing coaching change.
I think that is the point. We have talent. We aren't loaded, but we have talent to compete. Regardless of the injuries, we have enough talent to play better than we have been playing. This is an honest question. What do you think that Groce does well?
I am in favor for Groce staying another year but for totally different reasons.
What does it mean to have 100% chance of a home run hire, and how is this accomplished without making a coaching change? Because if there is away, all these colleges that have ever made a coaching change without a 100% guaranteed are simply stupid. And I have seen this implication before, but the probability that we get a good coach next year is definitely no better than getting a good coach this year.
As far as finances, there is no much difference this year from next. And as has been explained multiple times, "state of IL" finances play zero role in the hiring of the basketball coach.
Seeing as how we have not finished in the top half of an expanded conference for a long time, I hope you are right. But my mind tells me we are a bubble team and middle of the conference again next year, if we stay healthy.
- Status