Like I said, I'm all over the map.
Groce/Whitman Press Conference
Like I said, I'm all over the map.
Yeah, you must not have been around after the slush fund or you'd realize just how dumb this is . Take it from an eye witness , I was there .
I have never bought into the thinking Illinois has no offensive sets . In fact quite the opposite , last nights games had almost zero set plays or set plays that were ran . The lack of a at least below average point guard makes it seem that way though . Open passes were missed by the hundreds by our point guards . Get a point in here you'll notice it . Unless you're into the Groce has to go attitude you just refuse to.
So I guess we should increase presidential term limits since 7 to 8 years isn't enough to show progress or accountability. We should sign coaches to 10 year minimum contracts since they can't be held accountable after 4. Everyone is worried about getting recruits.... What good is it to have good recruits when you can't coach them to victories or even keep them out of a jail cell for that fact.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
Sorry, guess I should have said "most"!
Either way, it's telling that the response to this statement has been "nuh-uh, I'm old enough to remember a full-on NCAA scandal!"
This can't be overemphasized. W/o a competent PG, it's hard to look good offensively. The last two seasons, we've had dismal PG play, arguably the worst in the Big Ten.
We weren't a top 15 team 5 years ago but a top 15 program given the history, record, conference, facilities, recruiting base, name recognition...
Indiana was still considered a blue blood 5-10 years ago but they've definitely regressed considerably in the past decade. Same concept.
I would say unarguably. That should change next year though.
I agree and I'm not even pro Groce other than I want him to succeed because that means we succeed. This is not unlike the current presidential election and was the same with Weber. It seems the division is so decisive and passionate that in the end each side is only hurting the whole.
My how the tables have turned at Illinois...When was the last time football had a more positive outlook than basketball? 07? Early 90s? 80s? Never?
The fact that JW gave a vote of confidence to Groce again has a lot of people in a uproar , I'm cool with Groce being the coach , see I guess I'm a lil more patient than others , there are coaches that have been at their schools that are doing a lot worse and are not calling for their coaches heads , what has FSU ,PSU,BC,VT, just to name a few I know there's more , but what have they done for their schools to retain them ? but here we are as fans calling for something we can't control and that's someone's job , just so we can have braggin rights on who we beat or what round we made it to , so I guess it's forget the fact that these coaches and players are human and go through life like we do, have ups and downs like we do, just win games guys we could care less about you or your life as long as I get to brag about y'all winning smh , let the process play out and support the team geeezus .
I forgot Brian Gregory and Kim Anderson!
Totally agree. What's worse is that it seems like every PG Groce has missed on has gone on to provide the exact skill and leadership on their respective teams. It is hard to watch Notre Dame, Villinova, Oklahoma State, and L'ville and just shake your head and the "what could have been" It is remarkable that Coach has been so right at identifying excellent point guards and so miserable at bringing them home....over and over again. Just one on these guys would have made a huge difference today. Then there is the gaping hole regarding bigs.
First of all, I think all of us have a little higher ambition for Illinois Basketball than the schools you mention. Of course, maybe with the hiring of Lovie on the football side of things we will get to a point of caring more about football then basketball like all of those schools, and have an apathy towards the basketball side.
Second, everyone on this board is on here because they are Illinois fans, who support the team, however, that doesn't mean we should blindly support a coach who's teams have got worse year after year. Most of us like Groce as a person, but that doesn't mean we think he is the right coach for Illinois. Those points aren't mutually exclusive.
Rick Barnes made the tournament 16 of 17 years at Texas. Of course you could say that's not good enough for a school like Texas, but I don't think missing 3 of 4 tournaments at Illinois is good enough either.
Weber's K-State was #52 on Kenpom in his 4th year, after half his team transferred. Only 81 spots above Groce in year 4.
Johnny Jones has at least 19 wins in each of his 4 year's at LSU, and is 8 games over .500 in conference during that time.
Not really sure what Groce has done to show he is an upgrade over these coaches.
Deleted member 10676
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http://ussporthistory.com/2014/10/20/the-illinois-slush-fund-scandal-of-1966-67/
NCAA had nothing to do with it. It was Big Ten all the way which is one reason i root against every other Big Ten team every time they play. I have the memory of an elephant.
And fwiw, this is a picnic compared to losing coaches, players and being threatened with being thrown out of the Big Ten.
Brian Gregory took a team that was 102 on Kenpom and has improved them every year except his first year (currently sitting at 50), and just won 21 games.
Am I mixing and matching definitions of "bad coach"? Guilty as charged. But we're talking about who you would trade for who, not necessarily who is the most accomplished. It's about where they're going, not where they've been.
I'll roll with Groce over any of the coaches I named, ESPECIALLY if the hypothetical switch involved giving them any more years or money.
Might be too early to tell in fairness, but lets provisionally add Danny Manning to this list too.
He's absolutely right, except that it's only a "failed attempt" if Tilmon and Goodwin commit elsewhere.
That may very well happen, but at least Whitman tried. He, unlike his predecessor, is thinking more than one media cycle at a time.
The original question was who was "unquestionably a downgrade" compared to Groce. Not saying I would hire any one these coaches, but I also wouldn't hire Goce. Also Danny Manning took over a Wake Forest team that wasn't good (#118 in Kenpom the year before he was hired), and is currently sitting at 127. Groce took a team from 82 to 133. Again, how is that "unquestionably a downgrade"?
See this is what I'm talking about how is that after the first year he was the man for the job , 2nd year he had recruits here that wouldn't even sniffed this place for a visit , and this is his first losing season ever at Illinois , his time here has not been a complete failure just this season and in the mist of his so called failures he still got us a pg and two kids from 17 , things have been dim but not worse. It's like I said we just wanna win but don't wanna go through the rebuilding process which we knew we would have to do after Paul and them left.
While I admire your use of objective metrics, I reject that Illinois' Kenpom ranking this season is the be-all, end-all of what John Groce is as a coach.
I don't think it's the be-all, end-all, but it does show a pretty significant negative trend over Groce's tenure. I just don't see what he has accomplished at Illinois that show's he any better than other failed P5 hires.
I am less concerned about what he has or hasn't accomplished than what I project for the future. I think we miss the tournament next year and Groce gets fired. Regardless, there are other P5 coaches that would make me more sure of that outcome.