Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Mav played flippin' great (vis-a-vis expectations) last season, so I have no idea what you're talking about.
Illini Basketball 2016-2017
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Mav played flippin' great (vis-a-vis expectations) last season, so I have no idea what you're talking about.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Yeah, well, there's that. lol
I give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Once that's gone, my ignore list expands.
Outside no defense or offense then I guess your right.
Inaccurate. Don't be a troll. Mav has strengths.
Not trying to be a troll. But I'm not counting on him to suddenly help this team. A few minutes here or there. But if Thorne or Black can't play then that will be trouble.
If you're not trying to be a troll, I can only assume you didn't watch the last 15 games of the 2015-16 season (not that I blame you too much for that). For your edification, here's what Mav did during that stretch: 11.5 pts, 5.4 reb, 0.9 blk, 0.4 stl, 55.4% fg.
Over the second half of the season, Mav emerged as a legitimate B1G Center. He'd start for at least 5 teams this year and will unquestionably be one of the best backup bigs in the league. Cool, right?
The way you are talking, the last time you watched illinois basketball was 2 years ago.
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He'll likely play 15 min/game or more. Guys Thorne's size don't play much more than 25 min/game, so the rest of the C minutes will have to come from somewhere. Finke could help a bit at C, but most of his time will be at the 4.
Mathematics tells you that (assuming health), Mav will be a part of the rotation. And if he continues his obvious improvement last year, that's not a bad thing. He doesn't need to be a star.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Thank you. I reiterate: 11.5 pts, 5.4 reb, 0.9 blk, 0.4 stl, 55.4% fg. And rest my case.
Mav was last season's hands-down most improved player in my book. He went from being a total liability on the floor in conference play to a solid asset. There is still lots of room for improvement, sure. But by the end of the season I no longer felt the need to kick things when he got subbed in. Instead, I looked forward to seeing him battle it out. I even got glimpses of fire from time to time, and that is pure gold from any Illini on the field/court.
EDIT: this MM defense brigade makes me happy
EDIT: this MM defense brigade makes me happy
icengineer
- Southern Illinois
MM played very well for us the last half of the season. During the B1G season he averaged 4.29 reb and 10.05 pts. I'd say that is helping the team.
Mav scored 21 on the road against a top tier big ten team with a 5 star center. He is a great ft shooter for his position and reliable from mid range. He is very solid blocking out and getting his big body on people. He is walking proof that John Groce and staff can develop big men. He will be a fantastic back up for us next year. And yes, if Thorne or Leron get hurt we'll be in trouble. But not cause we have to rely on Mav. We'd be in trouble cause any team that loses their top 2 rebounding bigs is in trouble, and we'd have people playing out of position again.
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Just for fun, here are the season stats for the other B1G starting centers last year:
AJ Hammons, PU: 15.0 pts, 8.2 reb, 2.5 blk, 0.3 stl, 59.8% fg
Matt Costello, MSU: 10.7 pts, 8.2 reb, 1.2 blk, 0.7 stl, 56.1% fg
Ethan Happ, UW: 12.4 pts, 7.9 reb, 0.9 blk, 1.8 stl, 53.8% fg
Diamond Stone, Maryland: 12.5 pts, 5.4 reb, 1.6 blk, 0.5 stl, 56.8% fg
Thomas Bryant, IU: 11.9 pts, 5.8 reb, 0.9 blk, 0.5 stl, 68.3% fg
Alex Olah, NW: 11.4 pts, 5.6 reb, 1.4 blk, 0.2 stl, 52.5% fg
Adam Woodbury, Iowa: 7.6 pts, 8.3 reb, 0.3 blk, 0.5 stl, 55.0% fg
Mark Donnal, UM: 7.8 pts, 3.7 reb, 0.7 blk, 0.4 stl, 57.5% fg
Trevor Thompson, OSU: 6.5 pts, 5.1 reb, 1.2 blk, 0.3 stl, 52.2% fg
Daniel Giddens, OSU (played as much as Thompson): 3.8 pts, 3.6 reb, 1.5 blk, 0.5 stl, 43.9% fg
Bakary Konate, Minnesota: 4.8 pts, 5.1 reb, 1.0 blk, 0.2 stl, 50.5% fg
Michael Jacobson, Nebraska: 4.7 pts, 4.3 reb, 0.8 blk, 0.6 stl, 43.3% fg
Julian Moore, PSU (timeshare): 3.8 pts, 3.3 reb, 0.5 blk, 0.3 stl, 44.6% fg
Jordan Dickerson, PSU (timeshare): 2.8 pts, 3.5 reb, 1.6 blk, 0.3 stl, 54.0% fg
Greg Lewis, RU: 4.0 pts, 5.1 reb, 1.1 blk, 0.4 stl, 35.9% fg
I divided them into two tiers based on raw statistical impact (this of course ignores things like Daniel Giddens' imposing length and athleticism). Morgan's 2nd half clearly belongs in the top tier. His best statistical comparisons are Alex Olah and Thomas Bryant. There's merit to the old saying, "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics"--obviously, we'd all rather have Thomas Bryant and possibly Olah--but Mav put up virtually the same numbers after he began getting starter's minutes.
While I agree Mav deserves some acknowledgement for his good play last season, let's not get carried away. He's always been a fairly efficient scorer despite taking a lot of mid range shots. His increased PPG last year was due to playing more minutes (obviously), but he didn't really do much more than he had in previous stints. He's still not a great defender or rebounder, but he's shown he can be a reliable big man, and that's what we'll need from him.
Mav has always been a pretty good offensive player. That is not his issue. If you could pull stats on how often his man beat him one on one in the paint while he was wearing his cement shoes, that would be telling. The stat line simply tells us what we already knew.
There were times last year (admittedly early in the season) where the man he was guarding would score every single time he touched the ball. And, no amount of statistics can make up for that.
He was far better defensively at the end of the year as well but still not good and that is the area where improvement would be huge for Mav.
There were times last year (admittedly early in the season) where the man he was guarding would score every single time he touched the ball. And, no amount of statistics can make up for that.
He was far better defensively at the end of the year as well but still not good and that is the area where improvement would be huge for Mav.
Yes, we all know he's not going to be All-Conference. But the one getting carried away here was Makesnosense, who seems to have not seen Mav play in the last year.
Despite his vast improvement last year, he does have serious deficiencies defensively. But an awful lot of teams would be happy to have him as their back-up Center.
Much better stated then me. Thanks
Sure and I already responded to that. But when people start comparing him to Thomas Bryant, brakes need to be tapped.
Yes, if you had left off the part where you claimed he provided nothing to the offense, that would have been better.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
This.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
FatGreg listed stats for BIG 5s. No comparison w/Bryant.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
My bad, forgot about that one, in the flurry of posts this morning. That said, pretty darn innocuous, IMO (lies, damn lies...).
Too much talk about our 15 min/game backup center, so let's bring it back to the crux of the season. One thing that always gets lost in the shuffle is that MH was 17 when he started college. His gains across the board are amazing regardless of age, but he did have a little more "runway" to go.
Great PR for the guys, and build up the excitement for the season. My guess is that these strength and conditioning gains will be most helpful in those brutal Jan/Feb B1G gains while we're fighting for an NCAA berth.
Not sure why, but i have a sneakily good feeling about this season. I think 10 wins and 6th in conference is easily within our reach, with a chance to sneak into the top 4.
Great PR for the guys, and build up the excitement for the season. My guess is that these strength and conditioning gains will be most helpful in those brutal Jan/Feb B1G gains while we're fighting for an NCAA berth.
Not sure why, but i have a sneakily good feeling about this season. I think 10 wins and 6th in conference is easily within our reach, with a chance to sneak into the top 4.
If everyone stays healthy and out of trouble, I think that could happen.
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