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Trent @_Trentfrazier1 7m7 minutes ago Don't get rid of my guy , GROCE , he needs to be there when I'm there
2017 Coaching Carousel
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Trakis
- Chicago, IL
Trent Frazier literally saving Groce's job with twitter.
https://twitter.com/_Trentfrazier1/status/814563656520368129
https://twitter.com/_Trentfrazier1/status/814563656520368129
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I have been a Groce supporter but my support is starting wane. I think the OSU game will continue to show if he can motivate and coach.
Here is the question that I am pondering: If Groce is here next year, is he a good enough coach to develop the high potential recruits into good basketball players or will these high potential recruits develop into mediocre basketball players?
Here is the question that I am pondering: If Groce is here next year, is he a good enough coach to develop the high potential recruits into good basketball players or will these high potential recruits develop into mediocre basketball players?
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BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
I question this, too. No Groce team seems to ever be equal or better than the sum of its parts.
This entire season has been about whether Groce can make his second NCAA tourney appearance here. If he does, he'll be kept on. If not, he'll be let go. Maryland didn't help, but a loss to a top 100 team on the road doesn't actually look that bad on the resume. The home game vs OSU is probably more important to get some more of the top 100 wins on board.
illinoisfan11
- Peoria, IL
I know you were being sarcastic. My comment was really more in response to the post criticizing Martin for losing to Hawaii. I was sort of tacking on to your post. :thumb:
Agreed, but if Groce can't get this team to the tournament, he needs to go. If that means we lose the whole recruiting class, so be it. This is a great class, but what good is a great class without a good coach?
Exactly my feelings towards this. It would be a shame if this class has the same experience as Malcom (lot of talent cursed with bad coaching and never reaching the tournament)
Frazier later replied to a response asking him why he wouldn't still go to Illinois because 'Isn't Illinois a great enough school?' He responded that he did commit to the school, to relax, and that he 'wasn't going anywhere'.
That being said, if Groce goes I have to think we have a chance to lose somebody, if not several pieces.
I hope if the unfortunate does occur to Groce, Whitman will get heavily involved with the recruits to keep them on-board until a hopefully excellent new-hire gets to re-recruit them, as I'm pretty confident in Whitman's salesmanship.
Ultimately, I still hope Groce can right the ship, get to the dance, and this becomes a purely hypothetical exercise. Starts this weekend!
That being said, if Groce goes I have to think we have a chance to lose somebody, if not several pieces.
I hope if the unfortunate does occur to Groce, Whitman will get heavily involved with the recruits to keep them on-board until a hopefully excellent new-hire gets to re-recruit them, as I'm pretty confident in Whitman's salesmanship.
Ultimately, I still hope Groce can right the ship, get to the dance, and this becomes a purely hypothetical exercise. Starts this weekend!
Agreed. I was originally against this, but as I said before, the reason good recruits are valued is that they can help you win more ball games, but if you already can't do that with a talented, healthy, veteran team, then what's the point? It's the tournament or the streets for Groce, in my opinion.
Yeah, something like this is unheard of when it comes to recruits so there must be some smoke in regards to Groce's job.
Those things are undeniably true.
What is also undeniably true is that he inherited programs in pretty good shape in all three of his stops and didn't significantly improve on what he found at any of them. The big breakthrough season isn't on the resume, that great conference season at Mo. St notwithstanding.
Also, the only thing dumber than believing in tournament pixie dust is believing in fifth star pixie dust. He ought to be able to keep getting the kind of talent we're accustomed to. Extrapolating beyond that based on the weird circumstances with Brown and Rabb is 100% guesswork.
And it cannot be overlooked, this guy is from the trunk of the Keady tree. They play DREADFUL basketball from an aesthetic perspective.
It's an interesting resume. Whatever you go into it looking for, good or bad, you'll find it.
He'd certainly be a quality, credible hire, and a fit with the job. A home run? You could convincingly argue either way.
So many people don't know how to say this. Annoying.
Groce, who I really like, needs to dance or bust. There's no excuse. It's certainly still a strong possibility we are all just anxious about it.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
Fortunately, nothing prepares you for ugly basketball that gets results quite like ugly basketball that doesn't.
Very profound and oh so true. Dick Bennett? Pete Carril? Bring it on
homesickalien
- Springfield
So if we had a consensus top 6 what do you think the pool would look like? I'm thinking actual targets not coaches like Greg Marshall, Chris Mack, etc who aren't leaving. In no particular order:
Kevin Keatts
Scott Drew
Cuonzo Martin
Buzz Williams (he'd be my guy)
Archie Miller
Tony Bennett
Intriguing possibilities:
Steve Forbes
Matt McCall
Chris Collins
Kevin Keatts
Scott Drew
Cuonzo Martin
Buzz Williams (he'd be my guy)
Archie Miller
Tony Bennett
Intriguing possibilities:
Steve Forbes
Matt McCall
Chris Collins
Cuonzo would be a decent hire, but personally, I am not of the belief that he brings us all that much upside. Him jumping here would also form a trend where he's hopping jobs just to hop jobs, Tennessee only 3 years to Cal for 3 to IL for ??. Some people were concerned on this thread about a prospective hire moving on from us after success, but I'm not entirely sure Cuonzo wouldn't hop from here just because he doesn't seem to mind hopping, regardless of results.
I don't want to go straight down the Cuonzo path without exploring additional options, because frankly Cuonzo ball is not fun to watch (not that Groce ball is either), and we seem to be banking a LOT on him being able to recruit Chi/STL. Landing Moore is not a confirmation that he will be able to consistently recruit the area. I'd rather land a guy we know can be a good in-game coach rather than one that we think/assume can recruit the area. Cuonzo hasn't finished better than 3rd as HC at Cal or Tennessee (again, better than any Groce finish, but he's not really reaching any lofty heights in his improvement seasons). Lastly, I don't want to hire Cuonzo just because we think he can retain Tilmon. If that is playing into your evaluation as a major factor, then we should probably look elsewhere. Don't let this class hold our program hostage.
To stick with the baseball evaluation theme, Cuonzo would be a double, maybe a sliding triple, for me.
Personally, I still think we need to push hard for Archie Miller, and honestly, I like Ben Jacobson or Jeff Capel more than Cuonzo. There are recruiting questions with Ben Jacobson that we won't have a definitive answer for if we did hire him, but not as much with Archie or Capel. Capel was super successful at his previous HC gigs and has learned from one of the best in the biz. I also don't fear the x's and o's with those guys, whereas I do with Cuonzo. X's and O's are much more predictable/consistent than recruiting, where one bad class with some misplayed strategies can sink a guy, as we've seen with Groce who is still recovering from his learning experiences chasing 5* PGs with all of his resources.
I don't want to go straight down the Cuonzo path without exploring additional options, because frankly Cuonzo ball is not fun to watch (not that Groce ball is either), and we seem to be banking a LOT on him being able to recruit Chi/STL. Landing Moore is not a confirmation that he will be able to consistently recruit the area. I'd rather land a guy we know can be a good in-game coach rather than one that we think/assume can recruit the area. Cuonzo hasn't finished better than 3rd as HC at Cal or Tennessee (again, better than any Groce finish, but he's not really reaching any lofty heights in his improvement seasons). Lastly, I don't want to hire Cuonzo just because we think he can retain Tilmon. If that is playing into your evaluation as a major factor, then we should probably look elsewhere. Don't let this class hold our program hostage.
To stick with the baseball evaluation theme, Cuonzo would be a double, maybe a sliding triple, for me.
Personally, I still think we need to push hard for Archie Miller, and honestly, I like Ben Jacobson or Jeff Capel more than Cuonzo. There are recruiting questions with Ben Jacobson that we won't have a definitive answer for if we did hire him, but not as much with Archie or Capel. Capel was super successful at his previous HC gigs and has learned from one of the best in the biz. I also don't fear the x's and o's with those guys, whereas I do with Cuonzo. X's and O's are much more predictable/consistent than recruiting, where one bad class with some misplayed strategies can sink a guy, as we've seen with Groce who is still recovering from his learning experiences chasing 5* PGs with all of his resources.
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Tony Bennett is not leaving UVA for Illinois
homesickalien
- Springfield
You're probably right, but I'd throw everything I could to grab him. He's an upper echelon coach, but I don't see Virginia being his last stop.
I would too, but again, I don't think there's any amount of money we can throw at him to come here from UVA, even in my dreams. If he's leaving UVA, it'll be for a blue blood. He has zero connections to us, other than being from Wisconsin
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