Nothing tricky about the extension.
You're either upsetting a lot of your fans, cutting his legs off in recruiting, or both. Groce's lack of personal leverage is irrelevant, he's not truly the counterparty in the negotiations.
Nothing tricky about the extension.
Making the tournament or winning a game is not the issue but rather whether Groce is the right coach, the right fit at UI, the coach to return UI to prominence. I've lost confidence on Groce being that person a long time ago, that's why my own bar had been much higher than just making the tournament. Personally, I do not believe that Groce is the right coach but for different reasons, independent of whether we make the tournament or win a game in it.
It's the buyout that's tricky and Groce is not operating from a position of strength.
You're either upsetting a lot of your fans, cutting his legs off in recruiting, or both. Groce's lack of personal leverage is irrelevant, he's not truly the counterparty in the negotiations.
Making the tournament or winning a game is not the issue but rather whether Groce is the right coach, the right fit at UI, the coach to return UI to prominence. I've lost confidence on Groce being that person a long time ago, that's why my own bar had been much higher than just making the tournament. Personally, I do not believe that Groce is the right coach but for different reasons, independent of whether we make the tournament or win a game in it.
But whether the AD makes a change is also a totally different issue than personal opinions. I never thought Weber was the right fit from the beginning and was probably one of the most vocal posters on Illini message boards (definitely the most vocal on IL) for his dismissal. However, it did not mean that I was confident that Guenther was going to fire him, actually very confident that he was not going to. As I said in my post, Whitman may or may not fire Groce if he makes the NIT, not saying that he won't, but I still have some doubts.
Making the tournament or winning a game is not the issue but rather whether Groce is the right coach, the right fit at UI, the coach to return UI to prominence. I've lost confidence on Groce being that person a long time ago, that's why my own bar had been much higher than just making the tournament. Personally, I do not believe that Groce is the right coach but for different reasons, independent of whether we make the tournament or win a game in it.
But whether the AD makes a change is also a totally different issue than personal opinions. I never thought Weber was the right fit from the beginning and was probably one of the most vocal posters on Illini message boards (definitely the most vocal on IL) for his dismissal. However, it did not mean that I was confident that Guenther was going to fire him, actually very confident that he was not going to. As I said in my post, Whitman may or may not fire Groce if he makes the NIT, not saying that he won't, but I still have some doubts.
If you've made the decision to retain him, then you're paying a $500K bonus. Adding on a year extension is a no-brainer whether the buyout is the same or not. Nothing tricky.
I reached this conclusion about 2 1/2 seasons ago, about the time I started posting less on IL. I like JG tremendously as a person; my cousin introduced me to him a couple of times his first and second seasons at the helm, and we had the chance to chat for a few minutes after games on both occasions. Very personable, engaging, warm-hearted individual.
The problem is he's paid millions to win BB games, represent the school in a positive fashion and make a positive difference in the lives of his players. He doesn't do #1 well, and that's 90% of his job. I think his offensive system is pedestrian and hasn't improved or evolved much in 4 1/2 years to adapt to his personnel, and he hasn't recruited the kinds of talented, quick/athletic players he needs for his iso-heavy system and defensive principles to be successful. His personnel playing decisions also are consistently befuddling. I continue to go to 4-5 games a year, but UI BB hasn't been great fun or successful in a long time, and that's a shame.
I always enjoy your commentary and insights and would like to hear your reasons as to why Groce isn't the guy.
Also, you weren't a fan of Weber either, so I'm curious who your top 3 (realistic) choices would be if we find ourselves replacing Groce in March?
Eh, you're heading into Cubit territory if you're not signing him to something that makes firing him without cause next year a financially unwieldy proposition.
You're making a two-year investment in the Black/JCL/Tilmon/actual PG's roster under Groce's system. That's what's at stake.
to be successful at UI a coach has to be an excellent recruiter. Not just a good one, an excellent one. Not a coach who can deal with or tolerate the Illinois and Chicago HS/AAU scene, but a coach who will embrace it. UI needs to hire the next Bill Self, not wish for the next Bo Ryan.
I agree, and as I have probably overstated over the years, to be successful at UI a coach has to be an excellent recruiter. Not just a good one, an excellent one. Not a coach who can deal with or tolerate the Illinois and Chicago HS/AAU scene, but a coach who will embrace it. UI needs to hire the next Bill Self, not wish for the next Bo Ryan.
Groce's coaching has been sub-par, but more importantly, he has not been able to get the talent that UI needs. The talent that he has brought at UI has been just OK, independent of rankings. Illinois needs difference makers.
Groce started with promise IMO, but he failed to get the talent needed. I like his current class, but it just an OK class, a good foundational class who he should have been able to recruit his second or third year at the latest. Not five years into the job.
Contrary to others, I said that Groce not only needed to make the tournament to save his job, but ALSO get a top-5-10 recruiting class. The 2017 class is not it.
+1000. I can name 10 donors from Sunday's game who would be irate and making their frustration known to JW if we miss the Dance this year and he retains JG.
Bill Self is Bill Self because he's Bill Self and also a good 95% of Bo Ryan. He's a unicorn. You go looking for a "Bill Self", you'll end up with a Travis Ford.
I'd be looking for the serious, credible, X's and O's basketball coach who can take the Jerel McNeals and Glynn Watsons and Ed Morrows and Mark Smiths and maximize them into B1G contenders.
Is the problem Groce directly, or his choice of staff?
Yeah, it's all part of the choice Whitman has to make. If he's not the right guy, then the choice needs to be prior to the last game this year. Otherwise you're making an investment and it's probably not going to just be for a year or two.
If Bill Self was 95% of Bo Ryan, he would have a lot more NCs at Kansas.
I don't understand this. If Groce is going to go, why must the choice be made prior to the last game this year? What difference does it make if the decision comes a few days later?
So you don't have to pay the $500K bonus due at the end of this season.
He gets a bonus for not getting fired mid-season? Is that normal?
I respect that perspective, but I somewhat disagree.
Bill Self is Bill Self because he's Bill Self and also a good 95% of Bo Ryan. He's a unicorn. You go looking for a "Bill Self", you'll end up with a Travis Ford.
Illinois is in a unique spot. There's a lot of good talent that is basically ours for the taking, but there is also a lot of challenges and nonsense associated with getting that elite talent.
If I were making the decision, I'd be looking for the serious, credible, X's and O's basketball coach who can take the Jerel McNeals and Glynn Watsons and Ed Morrows and Mark Smiths and maximize them into B1G contenders. Do that, and we'll have the same punchers chance for the NBA lottery guys that we have now, but from a position of stability and strength rather than water-in-the-desert desperation.
People seem to be focused is Groce good enough to stay. Is the problem Groce directly, or his choice of staff?
If I were making the decision, I'd be looking for the serious, credible, X's and O's basketball coach who can take the Jerel McNeals and Glynn Watsons and Ed Morrows and Mark Smiths and maximize them into B1G contenders. Do that, and we'll have the same punchers chance for the NBA lottery guys that we have now, but from a position of stability and strength rather than water-in-the-desert desperation.