Pregame: Illinois vs Michigan, Wednesday, January 11th, 8:00pm CT, BTN

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#126      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
Are TJL, Tracy, JCL, Hill and Black our five best guys?

I always think your five best guys is worth trying if there's even half a chance they could work on the floor together.
 
#127      

radiodj

R
Houston
radiodj
Second and Chalmers said:
Are TJL, Tracy, JCL, Hill and Black our five best guys?

I always think your five best guys is worth trying if there's even half a chance they could work on the floor together.
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They probably are the best, and that's kind of depressing to be honest. There are a lot of deficiencies and mismatches to be exploited in that 5.
 
#128      

whovous

W
Washington, DC
whovous
I think Mav has to be one of our five best. Not five highest ceilings, but five best right now. TJL does not make that list for me right now. Hard to say if he will make it next year, but definitely not right now.
 
#129      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
radiodj said:
They probably are the best, and that's kind of depressing to be honest. There are a lot of deficiencies and mismatches to be exploited in that 5.
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Sure, but also an awful lot of talent. Tough to defend the diversity of offensive talent in that group and a lot of length and mobility at the other end, albeit not a lot of size.
 
#130      

Illini1221

I
Peru,IL
Illini1221
whovous said:
I think Mav has to be one of our five best. Not five highest ceilings, but five best right now. TJL does not make that list for me right now. Hard to say if he will make it next year, but definitely not right now.
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I agree, I think Mav has been a quality big ten center. Obviously, hes no Nnanna defensively, but he puts up his own, and has been good, if not terrific, offensively. That Mizzou game and his scuffle turned his switch on I think, in terms of his aggressiveness.
 
#131      

Deleted member 29907

D
Guest
Deleted member 29907
Jkat00 said:
I don't know if there is another coach in the country that would've mismanaged Tejon and Tates minutes the way Groce has. The fact that it takes your team being down 20 points to play Lucas over Tate is a head scratcher. Makes me very worried he would somehow screw up Tilmon and Fraziers minutes next season if he's still here. Can totally see Groce getting a 5th year transfer C and playing him over Tilmon all season and stunting his development.
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Exactly. TJL proved to me he could play during the NC State game. There was plenty of opportunity to get him a ton of minutes before the conf. started. I don't get why some coaches hang on to past history. Too nice? Too blind? Too focused on proving a point? I don't get it.
 
#132      

LurkLongandProsper

L
C-U
LurkLongandProsper
whovous said:
I think Mav has to be one of our five best. Not five highest ceilings, but five best right now. TJL does not make that list for me right now. Hard to say if he will make it next year, but definitely not right now.
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I agree with this. I'm not entirely convinced that Mav is necessarily someone who would be in our best lineup, but he's a top 5 player on our current roster in terms of game-to-game production easily.
 
#133      

TriCityBurbs

T
TriCityBurbs
all of this ceiling talk makes me think of where we'd be with Nunn. Abrams Nunn Hill Black Morgan is a really good starting five, with Finke JCL Kipper TJL off the bench
 
#134      

LurkLongandProsper

L
C-U
LurkLongandProsper
TriCityBurbs said:
all of this ceiling talk makes me think of where we'd be with Nunn. Abrams Nunn Hill Black Morgan is a really good starting five, with Finke JCL Kipper TJL off the bench
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I don't know that Nunn really brings us that much that TCL isn't right now. He stopped defending after his freshman season.
 
#135      

ballislife17

ballislife17
ballislife17
LurkLongandProsper said:
I don't know that Nunn really brings us that much that TCL isn't right now. He stopped defending after his freshman season.
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I agree. Nunn played very poorly for a large portion of last year. Tons of 3-11 sort of games where he eeked out 11 points, but really hurt our team in terms of effiency and shot selection.
 
#136      

LurkLongandProsper

L
C-U
LurkLongandProsper
ballislife17 said:
I agree. Nunn played very poorly for a large portion of last year. Tons of 3-11 sort of games where he eeked out 11 points, but really hurt our team in terms of effiency and shot selection.
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Yeah, I'd take freshman year KN back, but sophomore and junior year KN can stay at Oakland :hand:
 
#137      

TCTORNADO

TCTORNADO
TCTORNADO
The loss of Nunn's toughness, defense, 3pt shooting and rebounding will probably cost Groce his job.
 
#138      

LurkLongandProsper

L
C-U
LurkLongandProsper
TCTORNADO said:
The loss of Nunn's toughness, defense, 3pt shooting and rebounding will probably cost Groce his job.
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Nunn's defense was absolutely atrocious last year -- granted, that would not make him a stranger to his peers on this team -- and he took terrible shots. Kendrick Nunn's best year was his first, and from there he barely developed (more volume on offense, less effort on defense does not equal development). Groce will cost Groce his job, not the loss of Kendrick Nunn.
 
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#139      

oldman

O
oldman
Black has to start unless he has been lethargic in practice. He is our best rebounder by a wide margin.
 
#141      

Elgin7680

E
Elgin7680
Kipper, Tracy, JCL, Hill and Black. These are the 5 I would like to see start.
 
#143      

Ken

K
chitown
Ken
Second and Chalmers said:
That lineup would have a lot of trouble with ballhandling, so you'd need Tate at the 1, and then it would have a lot of trouble with shooting, so you'd need Finke at the 5, and then it would have a lot of trouble defending anybody.

Because of that conundrum I feel like you need either JCL or Black on the floor at all times. Any lineup JCL is in has adequate shooting, and any lineup Black is in can at least somewhat defend.

Maybe you could go a little Flying Illini with Hill, DJW, Kipper and Black all as long athletic guys around the same size? Could Lucas handle that assignment to make the shooting and ballhandling aspect work? That's a fun message board fantasy, but putting a true freshman at the helm of a quirky experimental young lineup could be a recipe for a ton of mistakes in a real game.
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The problem with saying we would have trouble with ball handling or shooting is that we have trouble with those anyway . The guys we have that are good at those things are inconsistent so you might as well try and get somewhere out there that maybe could impact that game in another way because if not you keep reliving the last 4 years .

Arguing that the freshmen would make mistakes is crazy when you consider the amount of mistakes the upperclassmen are making.

What we are watching is the impact of 4-5 years of mediocre point guard play that has led to your wings not being developed because they all think they pseudo pgs .

You put that freshmen PG out there with those athletic wings and demand pressure on the perimeter,help on the glass and for them to run the floor in transition. Release freshmen and just let him a be the PG he was recruited to be not a failed imitation of the previous PG's which simply have been ineffective at best .
 
#144      

Ken

K
chitown
Ken
TriCityBurbs said:
all of this ceiling talk makes me think of where we'd be with Nunn. Abrams Nunn Hill Black Morgan is a really good starting five, with Finke JCL Kipper TJL off the bench
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Sorry but Tracy is not a PG and the results would still be the same because of the bad habits that not having a real pg and offensive system has brought.
 
#145      

oldman

O
oldman
This is close to the time of year that Groce started to play/start Hill and nunn as freshmen.
 
#146      

89illinigrad

89illinigrad
Chicago
89illinigrad
oldman said:
This is close to the time of year that Groce started to play/start Hill and nunn as freshmen.
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I had to go back and look it up, but it actually happened a bit later in the BIG season--just after the mid-point of the season.

After winning their first 2 BIG games, the team went on a 8 game losing streak before Nunn and Hill were inserted into the starting lineup. They then went on to win 5 of their last 8 BIG games.

Hopefully, with Groce making the changes now, instead of 7 games from now, it gives our team a better chance from here on out.
 
#148      

BillMo

B
BillMo
oldman said:
This is close to the time of year that Groce started to play/start Hill and nunn as freshmen.
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I have been thinking the same thing, Make you wonder why he waits so long to try things. I would love to see Hill get moved to the 2 spot for a bit and start a lineup of TJL/Hill/DJW/Kipper/Black I know it wont happen but would love to see it and I only say Hill cause he needs to play id rather see Jordan in his spot it would be a athletic as we can be and they could play fast very fast like Groce keeps saying he wants to do
 
#150      

RickBB

R
RickBB
Ken said:
What we are watching is the impact of 4-5 years of mediocre point guard play that has led to your wings not being developed because they all think they pseudo pgs .

You put that freshmen PG out there with those athletic wings and demand pressure on the perimeter,help on the glass and for them to run the floor in transition. Release freshmen and just let him a be the PG he was recruited to be not a failed imitation of the previous PG's which simply have been ineffective at best .
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I agree with so much of this above. Is it game time yet? Tonight game either gives me some hope (misguided as it might be) or may be closer to putting me out of my misery.
 
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