2017 Coaching Carousel

[Buster]

There's an open letter in the Illini hq forun that sums things up quite well

 

[Ulysses Everett McGill]

I'll try to start doing this for all identified candidates over the next two weeks:

Cuonzo Martin

-Runs a Keady-derived motion offense. It's philosophically pretty much the same from Hank Iba to Eddie Sutton to Keady to Weber/Painter/Cuonzo/et al: lots of screens, cutting, baseline action, perimeter passing. Turn down good shots to get great shots. Emphasis on patience and unselfishness. Cuonzo's guards seem to attack the basket more than Weber's (maybe a little space-it-out, Coach K-style motion influence). Nonetheless, if you have guys with low basketball IQs who aren't great shooters or passers, the motion offense looks like absolute garbage.

It's like free jazz: lots of room for interpretation and improv, works really well with great players, but with a room full of amateurs it's just noise. The ball screen offense run by Groce/Calipari/most NBA teams offers a little more margin for error. With Groce's offense (theoretically), if you have a lead guard that can collapse a defense off the bounce and hit pull-up threes, the offense looks decent. (We've never really had that, so...well, I guess that's why we're here in this thread.) With a Keady motion O, if you don't have five guys moving, screening, cutting, and making crisp passes, it gunks up. Then you lose games 38-33 (or 74-44 like Cal did the other day to Utah).

This year, Cal is #299 in adjusted tempo. They are a slow, methodical team offensively. It isn't generally fun to watch (one of Oizo's questions). We all saw how much fun it can be in 2004-05, but you usually don't have a team full of unselfish, ultra-skilled future pros.

-On defense, Cuonzo runs an aggressive man-to-man scheme with zone principles. This essentially just means that 1) you sink toward the basket when your man is two passes away on the perimeter, 2) everyone collapses on the paint when there's penetration (ready to fan back out - this is largely to prevent easy dump-offs and offensive rebounds), and 3) you communicate and help efficiently. It's pretty normal stuff - similar to Weber and frankly not too different from Groce's base pack-line in terms of philosophy. As far as I know, Cuonzo doesn't ever switch to a pure zone (outside of one specific time where he did it out of desperation at Missouri State and then explained in his post-game interview, "we don't even practice zone defense"). He's a man-to-man purist.

-Cuonzo's calling cards are hustle, defense, and physicality. He's had so-so results playing a grinding Big Ten style in the Pac-12. I think his philosophy would fit better in the B1G. If he ended up here, the one thing I'd feel confident about is consistent effort and hustle.

-From listening to interviews and reading columns, he seems well-liked and is pretty charismatic in an earnest sort of way. Personality-wise, I think he'd do well here. His former players and various people in the basketball community have nice things to say about him.

-My overall opinion is this: I think Cuonzo would do fine here. I don't know that he's a better coach than Groce, frankly, but I think he might have marginally more success recruiting and therefore more success generally. He doesn't blow me away. Doesn't seem like an extraordinary tactician or anything. I'll admit that I have a bias against the methodical version of motion that Cuonzo runs - I think it's boring and frustrating to watch unless you have multiple dynamic playmakers on the floor. That said, I'm not necessarily opposed to his hiring. I'd rather take a shot on Monty Williams or Kevin Keatts, though.

Very nice post. Thanks.

 

[dmac279]

To me, this is a disaster that will hurt Whitman. I think he knows it. I think he's been pulling for Groce and that's great. If this team made the tourney, he would have had his valid reason. I wish they made it, but they didn't. Whitman has to make the move or lose lots of supporters IMO.

J.w. Got a tuff decision, big picture Groce should go, and probably won't.

 

[GortTheRobot]

The sentiment that Groce won't go is part of the reason he should. It's just a continuation of the sense of mediocrity we all feel...our culture as Illinois fans is that this is just what we are and what we can expect. I just can't see JW being okay with doing that to the fanbase. Do you think he stopped following Illinois sports because he was working somewhere else? He knows the state of our program, and it can't be okay for a man who wants the likes of Lovie to run the football program.

 

[IlliniOllie]

The sentiment that Groce won't go is part of the reason he should. It's just a continuation of the sense of mediocrity we all feel...our culture as Illinois fans is that this is just what we are and what we can expect. I just can't see JW being okay with doing that to the fanbase. Do you think he stopped following Illinois sports because he was working somewhere else? He knows the state of our program, and it can't be okay for a man who wants the likes of Lovie to run the football program.

Also, given the times that Whitman was on campus, he knows full well what Illinois basketball can be, and knows that Groce isn't close to good enough.

I really hope that the "Groce is staying" is just sad-sack hopelessness, because bringing him back will not only really further hurt the program, but will also deeply shake my faith in Josh Whitman (and will tell me that #wewillwin is just for football).

 

[DoctorofJazz]

I want Groce gone but I want more than a minor upgrade. If JW can't find a home run hire keeping Groce one more year has one positive. A better roster for an incoming coach. We have six players coming back and four freshman coming in. If we add Smith a new coach will have a roster of eleven for 2018-2019.

At this point, having a lame duck coach for another year only further clouds the future of the program. Furthermore there is nothing to say that the incoming roster will come together as a cohesive unit. Or that Groce will coach any better or motivate the team to win more games in January/start of the Big 10 season. Or that the star players that were recruited will stick around.

 

[HeartofaChampion]

Been giving it some, a lot, of thought.
Looking at next year's team, there are the breakout juniors, and I'm going to assume everyone comes back. Then there is the sophs class, and we can see their potential, and finally the incoming 4, hopefully 5, frosh to take a beating from the upper classmen. Also, this now core group will be together not 1 but 2 years. I'm sure an a-ha moment will occur to them that they have something special going on for these next two years.

But then it occurred to me that since Josh is an alumnus, I was curious as to how closely he followed his alma mater teams from far away, since I'm sure he knew that at some point he was going to have a chance to be its AD at some point in his AD career.

So let's go back to the Thomas hire and then his hires, Beckman and Groce. Following Beckman's, then Cubit's effort, and Josh being a football guy, I'm sure he thought that they would need to go sooner rather than later. And sure enough, that's what happened. Following Groce's path, which we have all been doing these past 5 years, my guess, even though Groce is not his hire, that Groce has been through some interesting times and next year it looks like the program will finally be on stable ground with all of his recruits. No more "island of misfit toys" to babysit anymore.

And so, that's why I believe he will be back next year.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it, until proven wrong by Josh, and no one else.

Most big-ticket donors want a new HC. I'd be very surprised if JW ignored their wishes. Wouldn't be a wise decision from a monetary/support standpoint.

 

[StateFarmCenter]

Who cares? At the very least it makes it less likely that we will be wooed by some mid-major coach's one-off success in the tournament much like our most recent hire.

I said at large bids so that doesn't apply to what Groce did. The mid-major candidates are pretty limited this year, which is the pool we tend to draw from.

 

[Obelix]

and will tell me that #wewillwin is just for football

Or maybe it is just a slogan, one of millions that sports teams and companies use freely in their marketing efforts. I don't know, I am just throwing it out there as a possibility...

 

[Kathy]

Honestly, I just don't think he's getting fired. I've been saying it and it makes me angry, but I don't think Whitman pulls it off. Our program is going to be this way for the next few years at least.... I'm preparing for it

I've been saying the same thing for a couple of weeks now. JW is not pulling the plug. Ugh

 

[TCTORNADO]

Larry Krystkowiak doesn't get enough mentions.

TC...is your Pheonix reference Dan Majerle? I'm all for that as well. I know he's tied to Pheonix, but double his pay to $3.0mm plus increases, maybe?

Monte Williams.

I like guys who have demonstrated an ability to compete at the highest level, know what it takes to get kids to the show. That's what the recruits we are interested in want to hear.

If that type of hire doesn't pan out, Keats is my man.

If Cuonzo is the best we can do, I would rather roll the dice w/ Groce. I don't think he upgrades the coaching, and Groce sits well with this class and next couple. It's not what I want, but I wouldn't hire Martin.

No Whitman was in Phoenix for a 3 day alumni event. You can confirm this via his Twitter and also Phoenix Alumni website. NetJets flight was from San Antonio to PHX. I have zero idea of who was on there, but the timing is interesting. Other sites have said Williams has been back door offered, but has declined. Does seem like a lot of smoke though, right??

 

[TCTORNADO]

Most big-ticket donors want a new HC. I'd be very surprised if JW ignored their wishes. Wouldn't be a wise decision from a monetary/support standpoint.

Plus I can't imagine that with $260 million worth of debt that Whitman is happy with $8 and free student tickets.

 

[PlayAZ]

Will Wade or Matt McCall....both are upgrades imo....Howland, Krystowiak (ties anywhere Midwest?) No Martin, No Martin, No other mid major coaches not mentioned. Keatts name seems to float a lot nowadays, probably nor realistic.

 

[Ransom Stoddard]

I'm sure an a-ha moment will occur to them that they have something special going on for these next two years.

Just to play devil's advocate, that notion has been floated every year since Mike & Mike left. Yet here we still are.

 

[Jkat00]

I've been saying the same thing for a couple of weeks now. JW is not pulling the plug. Ugh

Tournament or bust. The same thing for months now. JW will pull the plug if they miss the tournament. Simple as that.

 

[zpfled]

Someone recently suggested to me that Illinois might look at Kevin Ollie. Also that Cuonzo is still very much in the discussion.

 

[Obelix]

I'll give Mike Thomas credit for one thing.... He at least faced questions from fans. If Whitman decides to bring Groce back... He better go on WDWS. I have my Ifund renewal in my email just sitting there. Groce back, money gone.

I love this tough talk. The real question is, unless you started contributing to ifund last year, why have you contributed the last 12 years?

 

[Jkat00]

I'll give Mike Thomas credit for one thing.... He at least faced questions from fans. If Whitman decides to bring Groce back... He better go on WDWS. I have my Ifund renewal in my email just sitting there. Groce back, money gone.

Mike Thomas went on the radio during the season.... huge mistake, especially if you aren't prepared to answer tough questions... in which he wasn't.

 

[Deleted member 8632]

Been giving it some, a lot, of thought.
Looking at next year's team, there are the breakout juniors, and I'm going to assume everyone comes back. Then there is the sophs class, and we can see their potential, and finally the incoming 4, hopefully 5, frosh to take a beating from the upper classmen. Also, this now core group will be together not 1 but 2 years. I'm sure an a-ha moment will occur to them that they have something special going on for these next two years.

But then it occurred to me that since Josh is an alumnus, I was curious as to how closely he followed his alma mater teams from far away, since I'm sure he knew that at some point he was going to have a chance to be its AD at some point in his AD career.

So let's go back to the Thomas hire and then his hires, Beckman and Groce. Following Beckman's, then Cubit's effort, and Josh being a football guy, I'm sure he thought that they would need to go sooner rather than later. And sure enough, that's what happened. Following Groce's path, which we have all been doing these past 5 years, my guess, even though Groce is not his hire, that Groce has been through some interesting times and next year it looks like the program will finally be on stable ground with all of his recruits. No more "island of misfit toys" to babysit anymore.

And so, that's why I believe he will be back next year.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it, until proven wrong by Josh, and no one else.

+1 JW has no home run hire. And who would want to come here? Names like Sean Miller, Archie Miller, or the Drew brothers are comical. They ARE NOT COMING HERE! If the choice is between Martin and Keatts then it will be more of the same. We are complaining about Groce being a terrible"x's and o's" coach. Have we not watched Martin's coaching abilities the last 2 weeks??? As for Keatts, he's as unproven as Groce was when we hired him. I'm frustrated, like everyone else, but unless there is a home run hire we risk losing quality recruits amd bringing in someone that is no better or more proven than what we currently have. It sucks.

 

[sacraig]

Someone recently suggested to me that Illinois might look at Kevin Ollie. Also that Cuonzo is still very much in the discussion.

Ollie would be interesting but why would he leave UConn? He played there and has a championship ring there.

 

[itsJUPITER]

George Karl lol

 

[sacraig]

+1 JW has no home run hire. And who would want to come here? Names like Sean Miller, Archie Miller, or the Drew brothers are comical. They ARE NOT COMING HERE! If the choice is between Martin and Keatts then it will be more of the same. We are complaining about Groce being a terrible"x's and o's" coach. Have we not watched Martin's coaching abilities the last 2 weeks??? As for Keatts, he's as unproven as Groce was when we hired him. I'm frustrated, like everyone else, but unless there is a home run hire we risk losing quality recruits amd bringing in someone that is no better or more proven than what we currently have. It sucks.

This is patently ridiculous. Sean Miller is not the same caliber of coach as those other two. Of course he wouldn't jump ship and leave a borderline blue blood program to come rebuild ours, even if our program resumes are similar overall.

Archie obviously has the NC State connection, but other than that, I see no reason why we are somehow beneath him. The Drews are both at major programs so they would be tougher, but both are historically worse programs than ours, so again, I still fail to see why that's some pie in the sky notion. It would just take the right combination of timing and money.

Go have a beer. The sky isn't falling.

 

[Obelix]

Someone recently suggested to me that Illinois might look at Kevin Ollie. Also that Cuonzo is still very much in the discussion.

Firing a coach on a hot seat and throwing a golden parachute to another coach on a hot seat makes zeros sense. As far as Martin, someone suggested that Whitman had already negotiated with him and it was a done deal, so not sure why we are even talking about other candidates.

 

[MadSeason]

The hug from the other night tells me JW REALLY wanted Groce to pull this thing off. The other things I speculate about that strong show of emotion is:

1. JW does't have someone lined up and wanted Groce to make that moot.

2. He really likes Groce and wanted this to work itself out.

3. He knows that he cannot sell an NIT bid with another year of Groce.

4. If there is no magic in BTT, then Groce has to go.

5. The ideal option for JW would be to rip off 3 BTT wins and go dancing.

6. The more realistic and 2nd best option is a lackluster first round loss forces the inevitable

 

[TooHot4Tots]

JW is a wise man