The Illinois Coaching Search

[golferjohn1970]

People aren't judging Martin on just the NIT game. They're looking at his overall record and the 3-7 implosion at Cal in the last 10 games. The team folded last night - Jabari Bird was injured, but it sounds like Ivan Rabb actually chose to sit out. That's not a good sign.

I wasn't sold on Martin a month ago and he needs to be off the list for JW we can do better then him. Keatts is a better option then Martin right now he is a good recruiter but the guy is similar in coaching to Groce. If Keatts is hired if Miller and Marshall turn us down we should be happy with that

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Frank Vogel

If we're throwing around $4.5 million a year, that is going to catch the eye of an awful lot of college coaches. That's a top of the market salary.

Frank Vogel makes $5.5 million a year with the Magic, and that's pretty average in the NBA.

The 30 current NBA head coaches are off the table.

 

[LouAlcinder]

Why I dont want Martin:

• Another Purdue Coach with middling success
• Does not win many big games, even with good talent
• Nobody seems psyched about x's and o's
• leaving 2 programs in 3 years -- what kind of committment does he have to his players, his University. Just kind of tacky.

- If he has half the success as Painter, that's better than our last decade!
- Could you argue that he'd get better talent recruiting the midwest?
- Not real sure message board posters are the best review of Xs and Os
- Maybe Illinois is his dream job?

I'm not discounting anything you're saying, just playing devil's advocate. He's not my first choice either but we need to prepare ourselves for the real possibility that he's strongly being considered.

 

[golferjohn1970]

If we're throwing around $4.5 million a year, that is going to catch the eye of an awful lot of college coaches. That's a top of the market salary.

Frank Vogel makes $5.5 million a year with the Magic, and that's pretty average in the NBA.

The 30 current NBA head coaches are off the table.

I agree good post forget the NBA guys Monty may have been an option but move on from him he isn't interested. Use that 4.5 million to get the best coach available either Marshall or Miller. If they turn the job down scale back and hire Keatts at a lower salary.

 

[Illinoy]

Marshall and Bennett

What makes anyone assume that these guys are going to come in and recruit this area well. At the end of the day its about Jimmys and Joes before Xs and Os. Even Groce was one stellar pg away from keeping his job and no one here is clamoring about his Xs and Os ability. Our women's coach was like the Marshall on women's hoops at UWGB and we saw how that turned out.

The only other guy I think that could successfully recruit Chicago outside of Martin would be Miller. Other than that it 's up in the air.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

You put out a really long post. Ultimately, this is the relevant pitch. He either agrees and comes to Champaign or uses us as leverage to increase his salary at Virginia. I posted something a few days ago suggesting that based on what I saw at UVa, I thought he might be in play. For exactly this reason. I still feel that way.

We can talk about basketball schools, the other coaches, and diploma mills. Those things matter. But much less than ambition. In all professions, ambition dictates moves like this. Bennet likely wants to win at least one NCAA championship. If Whitman can convince him that his odds of that success are much greater at Illinois, he will be our next coach.

I think it's a mistake to insult someone like Bennett who has won multiple championships in the loaded ACC and gotten multiple #1 seeds in the NCAA tournament with the idea that he can't win a national championship where he is, or the bigger programs he has consistently stymied so far will inevitably defeat him in the end. You're not getting off on the right foot with that attitude.

I think it would be smarter to recognize and admire the extent to which he has conquered Virginia's limitations, but argue that his day-to-day could be easier and more rewarding at Illinois.

I absolutely don't think it will matter in this case, but just as a general matter of human psychology I think that's the better way to attack it.

 

[illiniguy24]

Can someone give me a good explanation to why it is being spoken like a fact that Martin would keep our current class together?


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[Second and Chalmers]

Intrigued as to why Sam Mitchell wants the job so bad. I thought he got kind of a raw deal in Toronto.

I think he spent time as a player or coach with every Midwestern NBA franchise except the Bulls.

He follows Woj on Twitter, I can guarantee you that. He sees "willing to make Monty Williams one of the highest paid coaches in college basketball" and thinks "why not me?"

 

[Adnarel]

Can someone give me a good explanation to why it is being spoken like a fact that Martin would keep our current class together?


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No.

None exists.

 

[IntenselyOrange]

I think it's a mistake to insult someone like Bennett who has won multiple championships in the loaded ACC and gotten multiple #1 seeds in the NCAA tournament with the idea that he can't win a national championship where he is, or the bigger programs he has consistently stymied so far will inevitably defeat him in the end. You're not getting off on the right foot with that attitude.

I think it would be smarter to recognize and admire the extent to which he has conquered Virginia's limitations, but argue that his day-to-day could be easier and more rewarding at Illinois.

I absolutely don't think it will matter in this case, but just as a general matter of human psychology I think that's the better way to attack it.

I think he's smart enough to realize that we are saying the same thing. Either he sees Illinois as increasing his odds to win an NCAA title or he does not.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Why is Jerry Colangelo's advice so heavily regarded when it comes to assessing college coaching? I know he is well connected in NBA and Olympic team circles but college is a different kind of animal and I'm puzzled as to why paying Monty 4 mil plus is a sound idea. Can someone enlighten me?

His advice is good just as a basketball person who Whitman can trust, but his greater value here is as a middleman. Colangelo knows all the agents and the big coaches and the landscape of go-betweens in that community. He can operate as Illinois' search firm, essentially. He can put out feelers that don't "officially" come from UI or Whitman.

 

[IntenselyOrange]

I should add that I think the odds are marginally better at Illinois due primarily to potential recruiting advantages. I'm not sure that difference is enough for him, but for about 10 days now I have become more optimistic.

 

[Tevo]

Can someone give me a good explanation to why it is being spoken like a fact that Martin would keep our current class together?

It's definitely not a fact, but a couple things point that way:
1) most of our class has already said or implied they want to stay with Illinois
2) Martin has already been recruiting Smith
3) by all accounts, Martin is a good recruiter
4) it's common for kids to remain faithful to a school even when there's a coaching change

If you have guys already committed to a school, who have been thinking about that school for months, buying clothes, talking about getting down to Champaign, etc., it's likely easier for them to see reasons to stay committed than to request a release, reopen their recruitment and then find a new home where they'd feel more comfortable (and have a scholarship open) in the span of 3 months. They like each other, they've talked excitedly about playing together, they like the school, they are local (aside from Trent, who has already said he's in no matter what), and they're likely to like Cuonzo.

All that points to a strong change to keep them all together. But no, it's not a fact. And I also believe that the odds are good the class remains intact no matter WHO is our next coach.

And I don't want it to be Cuonzo.

 

[Adnarel]

I can't explain away how we could hope to keep Tilmon when Walker inevitably goes. I believe the Tilmon camp has been abundantly clear on that score.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Here's my thing with Cuonzo, beyond my concern with how he's been able to convert talent into wins:

I get it. I get the circumstances at Tennessee. I do not think that situation was altogether his fault. I can appreciate the reasons why he bailed to take a job he didn't especially want, and under those circumstances his certain amount of success in a job he didn't want is nothing to sniff at. And it makes perfect sense that he would want to parlay that into a job he does want. I get it.

Nonetheless, this is a guy who has now gotten two non-terrible major conference jobs that he inherited in decent shape, has had steady, if very modest, success at both, and in both cases after three years he's fleeing the job at a dead sprint.

....that weirds me out.

 

[golferjohn1970]

So I'm sure it's been discussed but when does this all get wrapped up does that depend on who JW gets to take the job? If it's Marshall or Miller that depends when their team loses in the tourney. Will this be over quickly when their team is eliminated will JW be able to hire someone within a few days or will it take a few weeks?

 

[Mike]

JVG is great. Not sure he gives up what is currently a pretty sweet gig.

National analysts get tons of media exposure but don't make nearly as much money as some think. JVG would probably be an incredible for us if coupled with great Chicago recruiting coaches.

 

[Tevo]

I can't explain away how we could hope to keep Tilmon when Walker inevitably goes. I believe the Tilmon camp has been abundantly clear on that score.

Nothing would surprise me, but just because Tilmon made comments to the effect of, "I wouldn't be here if not for Coach Walker", that doesn't mean that now that he IS here, and is committed, that'd he definitely request a release if Coach Walker is let go.

I think he has other motivations to stay.

 

[golferjohn1970]

It's definitely not a fact, but a couple things point that way:
1) most of our class has already said or implied they want to stay with Illinois
2) Martin has already been recruiting Smith
3) by all accounts, Martin is a good recruiter
4) it's common for kids to remain faithful to a school even when there's a coaching change

If you have guys already committed to a school, who have been thinking about that school for months, buying clothes, talking about getting down to Champaign, etc., it's likely easier for them to see reasons to stay committed than to request a release, reopen their recruitment and then find a new home where they'd feel more comfortable (and have a scholarship open) in the span of 3 months. They like each other, they've talked excitedly about playing together, they like the school, they are local (aside from Trent, who has already said he's in no matter what), and they're likely to like Cuonzo.

All that points to a strong change to keep them all together. But no, it's not a fact. And I also believe that the odds are good the class remains intact no matter WHO is our next coach.

And I don't want it to be Cuonzo.

Good post and I completely agree say no to the Zo!! If we have to sacrifice Tilmon to get Greg Marshall or Miller then so be it. It's about who we get to coach this team long term not about a player who could be out of here in 2-3 years.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Anyway, I thought I would share a couple of names I heard from someone I know who works in the athletic department...you ready??? dont laugh...Frank Vogel and Jeff Van Gundy.

Honestly this just leaves me scared that Whitman is flailing around terrified to not deliver on the massive pile of money he's pushing around.

He worked the donors hard to build this war chest, probably not by rationally explaining to them that $2.2 million a year for Kevin Keatts was likely to be the best, most sensible, highest-upside long-term play for the program. Whitman is a smart guy, he understands that. The bigwig donors might very well not. They paid for headlines.

 

[mattcoldagelli]

Honestly this just leaves me scared that Whitman is flailing around terrified to not deliver on the massive pile of money he's pushing around.

He worked the donors hard to build this war chest, probably not by rationally explaining to them that $2.2 million a year for Kevin Keatts was likely to be the best, most sensible, highest-upside long-term play for the program. Whitman is a smart guy, he understands that. The bigwig donors might very well not. They paid for headlines.

This kind of runs counter to the "donors are fine with whatever Josh Whitman decides to do" leaks that we saw near the end of the season in the N-G (?).

 

[Adnarel]

Maybe donors are not a homogeneous group.

 

[Tevo]

This kind of runs counter to the "donors are fine with whatever Josh Whitman decides to do" leaks that we saw near the end of the season in the N-G (?).

"John, we trust you. We'll be fine with whomever you choose... Well, except HIM! JESUS!"

 

[RichardKeenesHair]

If keeping the '17 class together was a big consideration I think Whitman would have just kept Groce around another year. Of course it would be nice, but he has bigger fish to fry. This hire might be the biggest one he makes as AD at Illinois

 

[BZuppke]

I think the press and this board know very little. The same names are being bandied about some of whom may or may not be on JW's list, but we have a one man search committee. An extremely intelligent and discreet AD in Josh Whitman. Like the Lovie hire, I think we'll be very excited with this next hire. I have no inside info but In Josh I Trust.

I don't think Cuonzo gets a telephone conversation.