Wanna win
Illini Basketball 2017-2018
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Wanna win
sacraig
- The desert
Sure, but that often takes care of itself when a team can pass and rebound well.
Yup, Groce teams were just flat out ridiculous on defense. The '015-'016 team was one of the worst in the last 40+ years. A lot of the bad defense was just poor individual effort. The kind of things that get coach's fired.
Even better
I always thought if we kept Weber's D and Groce's O, we could've had very good teams. One reason we played as well as we did in the 12-13 season was cause the players had the defensive fundamentals from Weber and the offensive sets from Groce. Also change tends to ignite effort. That team did have a lot of good/great players.
Judging by all the scandals in college athletics, I'd say they're pretty normal.
sacraig
- The desert
Yeah, at the point where it becomes a trend it falls on the coach. I feel like the renewed focus on effort/conditioning and fundamentals under Coach Underwood is a good start to fixing this.
Yup, there was no quit in that team, plus Paul was a true leader on and off the court, something Groce didn't have the next 4 years.
We should thank the other 14 teams that beat us, as well then, since Rutgers shouldn't get all the credit. 
I agree, why is Groce suddenly getting praised for his offensive sets? He was getting murdered on here for them during the season.
Our offense was incredibly brutal to watch until TJL magically came in and saved the day.
You can say if he had a better PG things may have been different, but he never got one to fit his system, but at the end of the day, the good offense we saw at the end of the season was just too little too late
Just wanted to point out, we averaged what 70.something ppg last year with Groce's offense? Just looked up Ok. St. games last year and their low on the season was 57 against Baylor, and scored 67+ points every other game, hit the 90 point mark 14 times (7 times vs. Power-5 schools+Wichita St),and the century mark 6 times with 3 other games over 97 points.
Groce's squad scored 80+ 10 times, only twice in conference, and failed to score 60 points in 10 games. Only time we hit 100+ was against a division 2 school. Plus we only had 1 game in the 90's. Not to mention only scoring 43 points against Wisconsin.
If we score on average anything less than 80 ppg this year I'll be shocked, we are going to be just as talented as the team Underwood adopted last season in a league that won't be able to run with us like the West Virginia's/Arkansas/Kansas/Iowa St's of the B12.
and just for reference Ok St in the 2015-16 season scored 80+ 4 times, and failed to score 60 7 times!
Groce's squad scored 80+ 10 times, only twice in conference, and failed to score 60 points in 10 games. Only time we hit 100+ was against a division 2 school. Plus we only had 1 game in the 90's. Not to mention only scoring 43 points against Wisconsin.
If we score on average anything less than 80 ppg this year I'll be shocked, we are going to be just as talented as the team Underwood adopted last season in a league that won't be able to run with us like the West Virginia's/Arkansas/Kansas/Iowa St's of the B12.
and just for reference Ok St in the 2015-16 season scored 80+ 4 times, and failed to score 60 7 times!
Illiini
- In the land of the Nittany Lion
We were at that game at Rutgers and were dying in the stands because the team, for whatever reason, wouldn't play offense. I'll admit I'm not a basketball tactician, but I do know you don't try to sit out a two point lead for a minute or whatever it was. We were dying. :frustrated:
At least now I can consider that it wasn't in vain.
This year, pound 'em in Piscataway.
At least OSU scoring in 15-16 was fairly consistent. 10 games over 80 and 10 games under 60 goes to show how eratic we were last year. But if we were hot shooting 3p, we could compete with anyone. Looking fwd to more consistent offense under BU.
sacraig
- The desert
No one praised his sets. We said his teams' offensive ppg stats weren't atrocious. That's not really high praise.
John Groce runs an offense that relies on a dynamic, scoring lead guard.
In year 3 and 4 of Groce's tenure, Jaylon Tate (career .339 2 pt/.105 3pt %) started a combined 28 games.
In crucial year 5, it was bionic man Tracy Abrams and Tate running the show yet again until Lucas (a freshman coming off a serious injury) started taking their minutes.
That's about all you really need to know about why John Groce didn't succeed at Illinois.
In year 3 and 4 of Groce's tenure, Jaylon Tate (career .339 2 pt/.105 3pt %) started a combined 28 games.
In crucial year 5, it was bionic man Tracy Abrams and Tate running the show yet again until Lucas (a freshman coming off a serious injury) started taking their minutes.
That's about all you really need to know about why John Groce didn't succeed at Illinois.
That's a little bit reductive, but it isn't inaccurate. A great (or even good) PG really would mask Groce's shortcomings as a coach and developer of players. 'Course, you could replace "Groce" with just about any name and it would still be a true statement.
At the end of the day, Groce failed to recruit an appropriate PG. That's on him. Injuries and suspensions aside, his downfall was self-inflicted. Public statements aside, I'm sure that's not lost on him. He may have been a stubborn and inflexible coach, but he's not stupid.
I'd be willing to bet a really nice set of beach chairs (but not the house) that he'll learn from the mistakes and craft a nice little spark plug of a program at Akron.
At the end of the day, Groce failed to recruit an appropriate PG. That's on him. Injuries and suspensions aside, his downfall was self-inflicted. Public statements aside, I'm sure that's not lost on him. He may have been a stubborn and inflexible coach, but he's not stupid.
I'd be willing to bet a really nice set of beach chairs (but not the house) that he'll learn from the mistakes and craft a nice little spark plug of a program at Akron.
In my nn-expert opinion , this WAS Groce's offense. However, that is true for any offense.
Like you, I'm looking forward to more cnsistency.
Personally, I believe the reason he was unable to land solid recruits was because after an extremely nice 12-13 season, he was hunting for these top 25 guys and shoving quality 3 stars to the back of the line. He missed on all the big names for whatever reason you want to throw out there, but he realized this too late. He could've been a decent coach, but he didn't have the talent for it.
One thing a coach like Groce will always be able to do is ignite a spark in the locker room. Of course, our teams did quit on him (see the whole Mich/Bama combo loss in 2014), but I always admired how the players seemed to bounce back from a stretch of bad losses, something Weber never could do. Of course, you'd like to never have long stretches of bad losses, which is a reason getting hot isn't the only factor that goes into a season.
Groce isn't a guy that will get a team to 30 wins consistently, but making runs at the right time is something his teams have shown they can do, and I bet he makes another S16 before his HC career is done.
Reread the last page if you think that. ChiefIllini said a big reason we made the tournament in 2013 was because of Groce's offensive sets.
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I hate to extend the Groce conversation in what somebody pointed out is a forward-looking thread, but it's true that in especially the last two seasons, Groce teams were famous for not showing up until about midway through the second half. I still don't know why, because it's equally true that I never got the impression that his teams actually quit on him (except for the Michigan+Alabama sequence).
Post 1: Looking forward to the upcoming season. We aren't going to be a top 25 team, but excited to see what Alstork, Smith and Frazier will bring to the team, and how Lucas, Nichols, Black and Finke develop under the new system. I really have no idea how good we might be - but it is great to be optimistic again!
You may be right. Lou had better talent and about the same record his first five years. Was a very poor in-game coach during that time - I can remember the consternation over his substitution timing similar to what drove people on here crazy with Groce. But he learned, adapted, and now has his name on the court.
Since it was a maybe, Whitman made a very understandable decision. Had we not been able to steal Underwood and ended up with Cuonzo, I don't know how confident I would be that Illinois basketball would be better off in five years than we would have been had we retained Groce.
Under the prior AD leadership, firing Groce would have been a far larger gamble and maybe not the right decision. Whitman's competence has changed that calculus.
Alaska...dont understand last paragraph?
"Under the prior AD leadership, firing Groce would have been a far larger gamble and maybe not the right decision. Whitman's competence has changed that calculus."
I think firing Groce was the right decision regardless of who the AD was and regardless of someones' competence or calculus.
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