Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (October 2017)

[IllFanInMi]

If BU and the boys put faith in the Fire and were setup to fail in the ninth inning, then do it to me once, shame on you. If the Fire let this go as far as it did, leading BU to believe they were in support, only to exercise their power later, brilliant! Perhaps they simply wanted to send a message that the road to Champagne goes through them!

 

[Deleted member 631370]

You are assuming he felt the same way 4 months ago as he did last weekend; obviously he changed his mind after WE PUT THE FULL COURT PRESS ON HIM.
This he could've decided months ago argument has very little merit; programs recruit to the end because they know how minds can be changed!

+100000


This is key. If we wanted to side with the Irvins, fine. But we goofed this all up by going all-in on THT only to yank his offer at the last minute. We look like utterly heartless clowns in doing so.

Chin Coleman.....where the heck were you in all of this? How in the world was the Irvin red line NOT communicated a week ago? Instead, we put the full court press on THT, wine and dine him, and when we win him over, then we say "whoops, turns out we're full. Best of luck to you". Amateur hour.

 

[pruman91]

who's next ?

 

[FeelTheLovie]

I HATE how this went down, but if we are actually going to be getting 5 stars for the foreseeable future then I understand the decision. Illinois was going to have to tell one of two kids that they couldn’t play for their school of choice, a decision I wouldn’t want to have to make. Simeon really hasn’t sent any elite level guys here in 20+ years, so I understand testing the water elsewhere. Best of luck to THT, really sad situation for a really good kid.

 

[Illini Beer 4 All]

Agree with most of this. The Irvins and their delicate little ego are the culprits in all of this.

That said, we don't get a free pass. It takes two to strike a deal, and we made our bed with these guys.

It's a gamble, got it. We're expecting -- naively, I'm afraid, but we'll see -- that the Irvins will send us their best. But we have to live with the gamble we made. And in this particular instance, this deal resulted in yanking a scholarship offer at the 11th hour to a great prospect (more importantly, a great kid) because the Irvins have a bone to pick with him.

So yes, Underwood does bear some of this. Whether it pays off remains to be seen.

They've always said Illinois needs to play the game. This is the first time we've played the game since Jimmy Collins.

People have said play the game. People have said we want the top Chicago players. This is how it's done if you're not a blue blood folks.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[TALKTOCHUCK]

If so, its lack of institutional control.

or a coach who knows how to win Chicago.

 

[IllFanInMi]

They've always said Illinois needs to play the game. This is the first time we've played the game since Jimmy Collins.

People have said play the game. People have said we want the top Chicago players. This is how it's done if you're not a blue blood folks.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Playing the game, and playing the game the right way is done all the time, we played the game wrongly, unless you think it's wise to play the game only using the Fires rule book! Again, we could've, and had full knowledge of the situation to play the game without suffering an embarrassing loss!

 

[IllFanInMi]

Furthermore, we put ourselves in the position to have to choose. If we were mislead, and had confidence this would not happen, then I just hope the staff learned something.

 

[Deleted member 236589]

I was going to say earlier that it's easy to be a Monday Morning QB, but being so positive about seemingly ready to reel in a THT, I refrained.

After being away from the board until an hour ago and seeing the nuclear meltdown that has occurred, I can only say this is EMBARRASSING! Imo, no way to slice a positive piece of pie; this is a JOKE! No way should it have gotten this far with THT, whoever is extorting the Illinois should be told to kiss their own pipeline!! Honor and a mans word would mean more to Illinois hoops and the university in the long run. If these rumors are true, BU sold his sole to the devil today; I just hope there's more to the story.

If so, its lack of institutional control.

No, it actually isn't. Ayo committed first, then there was a blow-up between MIF and anybody else.....then BU did exactly the right thing by making a decision right then and there. He's actually in complete control. He made an informed decision. He made the right decision given the circumstances. The issue is allowing THT to take the OV. I'm sure he felt that he could bring all sides together in harmony. It didn't happen. He took his committed guy and moved on.

 

[USAFILLINI]

I feel for tht but the staff had to make a business decision. A lot of emotions flying around about it, but the staff doesn’t get paid to be emotional. They have to make tough decisions with the circumstances they are dealt. If future parents have worries about what went down, the coaches will have their chance to explain their thought process behind closed doors as it should be. We will see if it effects us in the long run but can imagine it will be long forgotten if we get BPJ to commit.

 

[Deleted member 29907]

I for one am not even debating this practice, however; savvy businessmen, politicians, agents, negotiators, etc.. know when to do things with spotlights, and when to do things in the dark. It's outlandish imo to believe this was done the right way. The guys on our staff knew about the clouds surrounding the parties involved and that this scenario was possible. There are already articles about this mess for all outside of this board and no matter how you want to spin it, it's another stain on Illinois basketball. I truly believe this will hurt more than
help, but if handled correctly had the potential to accomplish the longer term goals without the stains.

BU could've accomplished his alignment/!!! kissing agenda without this getting
As far along as it did, on the down low with MAC; well before THT's change of heart became national attention (247 recruiting experts), before this board was all but convinced we locked up 1 & 2 in the state, and avoided whatever yesterday was. You can all call me crazy, but I lost some faith in the ability of this staff to navigate the local waters. I just can't find a scenario that will result in this debacle being anything but negative PR.

Clearly we can all agree that ideally all of this is managed early and under the spotlight. One would assume that is always the intent - we just don't know enough to say whether or not this could have been kept there.

The problem is, its always easy to second guess and speculate from the cheap seats. To be honest, THT never really seemed that interested in us and seemed to be looking for a better opportunity elsewhere, so much of this could have come to a head in the very late hours of the process.

 

[GranMastaFlex]

Most people don't know the real issue here and it was not the Irvins.

There was a personal beef between two families. One family downplayed it until Illinois was named the leader and then they really dropped a bomb on the staff.

The Irvins weren't the bad guy here. They were sometimes the bearer of bad news but they have absolutely nothing to do with THT not coming here.

It's really ironic and perhaps karma that they have been villianized here.

 

[Joel Goodson]

No, it actually isn't. Ayo committed first, then there was a blow-up between MIF and anybody else.....then BU did exactly the right thing by making a decision right then and there. He's actually in complete control. He made an informed decision. He made the right decision given the circumstances. The issue is allowing THT to take the OV. I'm sure he felt that he could bring all sides together in harmony. It didn't happen. He took his committed guy and moved on.

This. Good post. That said, the way this played out stinks to high heaven. Coach Irvin needs to deliver.

 

[illinistar]

This is a 'what if' scenario. In hindsight, maybe BU should/could have withdrawn offers to Ayo and THT and not show any favoritism to anyone involved. Is this a healthy long-term move? (and absorb 'the losses' as part of 'business' in favor of something else long-term). Discuss the implications of this supposed scenario... or is this favoritism (Ayo) worth the ('unhealthy'?)gamble long-term?

 

[IllFanInMi]

This is not about making the better of two decisions. To me is letting it get to where it did and making that decision be made under a microscope.

BU and his staff knew the information for a LONG TIME, and had plenty of time to know where this could head before WE COURTED THT HARDCORE.

I only see scenarios where BU was communicating and doing diligence and he was back stabbed, he really hasn't built much of a relationship with MAC, and figured he could sell all parties and make it work, or he challenged MAC and pissed him off and got beat!

Someone just please tell me how this could not possibly have been negotiated and figured out THT to Illinois BEFORE our wining and dining last weekend , and especially yesterday.

I really want to let this go and get productive today, but I am not seeing any logical comments about how it should've never got so deep.

 

[IllinistuckinGopherland]

With a few vocal posters and so many lurkers, I'd love a full view of everyone's thoughts. If anyone knows how to convert this to voting buttons/tracking, please help me out:

1. Staff made the right decision but executed it very poorly, creating negative PR (and hurting a kid) unnecessarily. Staff should be admonished for the "how", but we need to then turn the page.

2. Staff made the wrong decision by acquiescing to the ultimatum, lowering our ethical bar, and staining our reputation. Should have accepted THTs commitment and let the chips fall where they may with respect to childish grudges in Chicago.

3. This is big boy recruiting, staff did nothing wrong here.

4. This was a conspiracy on the part of THTs camp to make MIF and Illinois look bad - he was never coming here. (This one is pretty much HHT on his own as far as I can tell).

 

[Calvin]

All built on the assumption that the Irvins WILL and CAN send all those kids to Illinois.

First, not every MIF kid has surrendered his free will to the Irvins. Just because Ayo came to Illinois as hoped doesn't mean every MIF kid is going to do the same. Ayo's dad is very close with Chin Coleman, correct? Is that going to be the case with Okoro? Miller? Whitney?

We're assuming that these kids are going to allow the Irvins to tell them where to go to school. That's a very risky assumption.

Secondly, do you honestly expect Irvin to send us the elite kids even if KU or UK or whoever else bends their knee to the Irvins? This assumption that the Irvins will remain loyal to us is yet another risky assumption.


We have all rightly decried the shadiness in recruiting. Rick Brunson strong-arming his kid to go to a Philly school. Longstreet sending Sherron Collins to KU. We all rightly identified adult handlers as a serious problem in recruiting. And now, here we are, celebrating it because we *think* we have a powerful handler in our corner.

I always thought the argument was "Chicago will support us when we start winning". Now, it's "we need to play the Chicago game to win".

I hate all of it. Can't blame Shaka for not taking this job for that reason.

I get the sentiment here, but I would say you're thinking about the recruiting process in a naive way. It's a fact that there are influences out there, it's often the case that you have to work within a landscape of people who have influence.

If you were making a big life decision, you would do the same --consult with the people you trust. Imagine being offered a career opportunity. You'd consult with your mentors, talk with your family, etc. Recruits are really doing the same thing. And if you don't like one of the opinions or even question the motives of one of their mentors, well, too bad. It's their decision on who to trust. And yes, sometimes they're not getting the best advice, but it's still up to them on how they want to make that decision, and who gets input.

The thing I like about Underwood is that he gets it. Recruiting always comes down to relationships. This one for sure didn't work out like the staff wanted it to, but in the end they will learn what they can from it and move on. It's really tough to navigate these things, and easy to criticize the captain when a storm throws the boat a bit off course. IMHO, this is not the time to pile on.

 

[GranMastaFlex]

One family wanted to keep a very private beef private for personal reasons. They didn't want to get into specifics so they downplayed it consistently.. then UI was named the leader and things changed rapidly in what information was shared with the staff on the possibility.

The real failure was the staff not getting all the necessary information sooner but one party involved really wasn't sharing their true feelings.

It's unfortunate. But, at the end of the day, this isn't a power move. It's an issue where 2 kids weren't going to play together and the staff wasn't relayed information clearly enough to avoid the mess.

It's very sad.

 

[KnoxIllini2]

So, uh, anyone have some of that good recruiting news?

 

[Psycho 86]

So which is worse..... a player uses our rabid fan base to his advantage, leads on our coaching staff and then spurns us or recruiting a player to the point of commitment then pulling the offer ??

Welcome to big boy recruiting!!

 

[FollowTisdale]

So, uh, anyone have some of that good recruiting news?

We have the highest rated recruit in the big ten right now committed to our 2018 class (maybe 2nd, that Maryland kid might be higher).

 

[Deleted member 29907]

So, who are the next key target recruits?

 

[nwebb1]

So, uh, anyone have some of that good recruiting news?

Queue the Chappelle meme

 

[Joel Goodson]

They've always said Illinois needs to play the game. This is the first time we've played the game since Jimmy Collins.

People have said play the game. People have said we want the top Chicago players. This is how it's done if you're not a blue blood folks.

If you think Self didn't play the game, you're very, very wrong.

 

[Deleted member 631370]

One family wanted to keep a very private beef private for personal reasons. They didn't want to get into specifics so they downplayed it consistently.. then UI was named the leader and things changed rapidly in what information was shared with the staff on the possibility.

The real failure was the staff not getting all the necessary information sooner but one party involved really wasn't sharing their true feelings.

It's unfortunate. But, at the end of the day, this isn't a power move. It's an issue where 2 kids weren't going to play together and the staff wasn't relayed information clearly enough to avoid the mess.

It's very sad.

That's a very interesting take, and I could see that as plausible.

Granted, interpreting tweets is a fool's errand, but (1) Ayo expressed no problems playing with THT, and (2) the Irvin tweet complaining about loyalty a few days ago both seemed to suggest that this wasn't about Ayo, but rather the Irvins.

But yes, there's almost certainly more to this story than what we know on the surface.