Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (October 2017)

[IlliniOX08]

Been a while since I've posted but here are my thoughts:

1. If forced to choose, the staff made the right call.
2. Ayo committed first. THT could have been told last Thursday/Friday that we were moving on - before the visit. And none of this becomes a problem.
3. Unfortunately the staff read the situation so poorly that we and our shiny new 5* both came away with egg on our face.
4. This was a big boy recruiting situation - again the staff made the right call - they just looked like amateurs doing it.
5. Us Illinois fans have been wanting to land a player like Ayo for over a decade. We've wanted the top dogs from the MIF for a long, long time. Now we played the game, got our player and suddenly don't like the look in the mirror? Our reaction to Ayo and MIF is stupefying. Blame the staff for letting this get out of control - not the kids. They made their intentions known. Again - the staff look like amateurs.
6. We've been deifying THT but his camp has made enough shots towards Ayo that I see why the rift is still there. Remember, the proverbial olive branch from THT and THT's mom wasn't extended until there was something for THT to gain. He handled the situation 100x better than our staff did, but he shouldn't be absolved of all blame in letting it get this far.
7. In terms of those hand wringing over Robert Smith and Simeon potentially black balling Illinois - name me the last 5 Illinois commits from Simeon. Better yet, I'll do it for you: DJ Williams, Kendrick Nunn, Jaylon Tate, Stan Simpson, Calvin Brock. Before that? Bryant Notree and Kevin Turner.
7b. In terms of the above - the last Simeon players to play for Illinois in an NCAA tournament were Calvin Brock and before him, Kevin Turner.
7c. You know who we didn't get from Simeon in that time? Derrick Rose, Jabari Parker, hell we didn't even get Ed Morrow. The Simeon pipeline is a mummers farse for Illinois fans to hold on to the 80's when it was real. Since that time it's been used a fall back for Illinois to take all of the B and C rated talent. We're not losing a pipeline, we opened a new one.
8. All that said, again THT didn't deserve to be publicly embarrassed. In any way, shape or form.
9. Make no mistake - we're in bed with the Irvin's now. It feels slimy and gross at the moment but if we start winning games and the Irvin's keep producing the "A" talent (see: Miller, Adam) for Illinois, isn't that what we've all wanted? Let's not be complete hypocrites - if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
10. ... on a more light hearted note - isn't this the most friggin Illinois thing that could happen?

Agree, disagree or anywhere in between - that's where I see things from after seeing many, many different viewpoints and sleeping on it for a night.

 

[Peoria Illini]

One family wanted to keep a very private beef private for personal reasons. They didn't want to get into specifics so they downplayed it consistently.. then UI was named the leader and things changed rapidly in what information was shared with the staff on the possibility.

The real failure was the staff not getting all the necessary information sooner but one party involved really wasn't sharing their true feelings.

It's unfortunate. But, at the end of the day, this isn't a power move. It's an issue where 2 kids weren't going to play together and the staff wasn't relayed information clearly enough to avoid the mess.

It's very sad.

:thumb:

I agree.

I would add that I can't fall into the camp that we wounded or hurt THT and that we took his dream school away from him. His listed favorites since the Spring had trended more to MSU and Iowa St, than the Illini, and there is nothing wrong with that.

After MSU dried up, he had another chance to commit to Illinois, but didn't. Maybe he didn't want to be the first? Don't know.

He'll do well at Iowa St. Great school, great student body, great campus.

I wish him the best. May he take it to Iowa and KU every chance he gets.

 

[Peoria Illini]

Been a while since I've posted but here are my thoughts:

1. If forced to choose, the staff made the right call.
2. Ayo committed first. THT could have been told last Thursday/Friday that we were moving on - before the visit. And none of this becomes a problem.
3. Unfortunately the staff read the situation so poorly that we and our shiny new 5* both came away with egg on our face.
4. This was a big boy recruiting situation - again the staff made the right call - they just looked like amateurs doing it.
5. Us Illinois fans have been wanting to land a player like Ayo for over a decade. We've wanted the top dogs from the MIF for a long, long time. Now we played the game, got our player and suddenly don't like the look in the mirror? Our reaction to Ayo and MIF is stupefying. Blame the staff for letting this get out of control - not the kids. They made their intentions known. Again - the staff look like amateurs.
6. We've been deifying THT but his camp has made enough shots towards Ayo that I see why the rift is still there. Remember, the proverbial olive branch from THT and THT's mom wasn't extended until there was something for THT to gain. He handled the situation 100x better than our staff did, but he shouldn't be absolved of all blame in letting it get this far.
7. In terms of those hand wringing over Robert Smith and Simeon potentially black balling Illinois - name me the last 5 Illinois commits from Simeon. Better yet, I'll do it for you: DJ Williams, Kendrick Nunn, Jaylon Tate, Stan Simpson, Calvin Brock. Before that? Bryant Notree and Kevin Turner.
7b. In terms of the above - the last Simeon players to play for Illinois in an NCAA tournament were Calvin Brock and before him, Kevin Turner.
7c. You know who we didn't get from Simeon in that time? Derrick Rose, Jabari Parker, hell we didn't even get Ed Morrow. The Simeon pipeline is a mummers farse for Illinois fans to hold on to the 80's when it was real. Since that time it's been used a fall back for Illinois to take all of the B and C rated talent. We're not losing a pipeline, we opened a new one.
8. All that said, again THT didn't deserve to be publicly embarrassed. In any way, shape or form.
9. Make no mistake - we're in bed with the Irvin's now. It feels slimy and gross at the moment but if we start winning games and the Irvin's keep producing the "A" talent (see: Miller, Adam) for Illinois, isn't that what we've all wanted? Let's not be complete hypocrites - if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
10. ... on a more light hearted note - isn't this the most friggin Illinois thing that could happen?

Agree, disagree or anywhere in between - that's where I see things from after seeing many, many different viewpoints and sleeping on it for a night.

Agree. I wonder how Chin didn't have a better handle on the read of the rift being so close to Ayo's family and MIF.

And to me, I've always felt that the Illini were at least plan B for THT. Otherwise, why leave MIF this summer when he already had an Illini offer?

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

So, who are the next key target recruits?

Don't know if I would consider him a "key" target, but the kid has game.

Luka Samanic. 6-10, 210. From Croatia. Was MVP of FIBA 2018 U18 World Championships.

https://247sports.com/Player/Luka-Samanic-46048953
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2yKoR0r1hU

 

[Ga65]

Don't know if I would consider him a "key" target, but the kid has game.

Luka Samanic. 6-10, 210. From Croatia. Was MVP of FIBA 2018 U18 World Championships.

https://247sports.com/Player/Luka-Samanic-46048953
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2yKoR0r1hU

Yes yes yes :thumb:

 

[drewillini89]

Anyone else feel better after sleeping on it?

 

[americanoutlaw11]

ISU, yes ISU have come to our beloved fertile recruiting grounds and taken the states 2, 3, & 4 ranked players and are smiling ear to ear. Sure ISU has been the more successful bball program recently, but seriously? It doesn't even seem possible for this to happen.

All the ones preaching patience, have faith, don't panic, BU and the staff will get done what our arrogance knows they will are running out of bullets.

Honestly sounds weird to say, but we are stacked at the guard spots for the foreseeable future, and Conditt probably won't be making much of an early impact. What this stance fails to mention is the Illini got the number 1 player in the state by a wide margin. He also committed first, so for all of those preaching loyalty, we just showed it to the kid who committed first. I wanted THT, and really hoped he would be an Illini. He won't be. It sucks, but we have the horses now and will hopefully add more in 19 to offset his loss. I don't think missing on Zion and Conditt are nearly as bad as last year where we missed on Eastern, Tilmon, J. Smith, and Goodwin (of course, we got Da'Monte and M. Smith and this year we got Ayo). THT is in that class of players IMO, but the other two currently are not (once again, IMO).

 

[Deleted member 29907]

Don't know if I would consider him a "key" target, but the kid has game.

Luka Samanic. 6-10, 210. From Croatia. Was MVP of FIBA 2018 U18 World Championships.

https://247sports.com/Player/Luka-Samanic-46048953
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2yKoR0r1hU

Now that's a highlight video! Nice to see a 6-10 guy what that vision who and can jump passing lanes. Reminds me of Sam Dekker in looks and skills.

 

[UIGrad03]

Most people don't know the real issue here and it was not the Irvins.

There was a personal beef between two families. One family downplayed it until Illinois was named the leader and then they really dropped a bomb on the staff.

The Irvins weren't the bad guy here. They were sometimes the bearer of bad news but they have absolutely nothing to do with THT not coming here.

It's really ironic and perhaps karma that they have been villianized here.

Exactly and corroborates what I said a few pages back. Makes it hard to be upset at anyone in this really, other than one family should have been more forthcoming or adamant a lot sooner than they were.

 

[Peoria Illini]

Anyone else feel better after sleeping on it?

I'm feeling okay.

Bring on Nov 10th!

 

[BryceC]

3. This is big boy recruiting, staff did nothing wrong here.

I'm an ISU lurker and I don't fault the staff or anybody involved but the Irvins. That said, this isn't just big boy recruiting. I can't think of a single instance of this happening anywhere else ever. Correct me if I'm wrong. This is the only take I disagree with here.

 

[winorlosewestillbooze]

https://twitter.com/KedPrince4/status/923910197416005632

From Kedric Prince this morning

"#Illini bball fans IMPORTANT tweet (fact) here, Illinois DID NOT pull Talen Horton-Tucker’s scholarship offer. More to come from me later!"

 

[winorlosewestillbooze]

https://twitter.com/KedPrince4/status/923916612926918657

And he reiterated his point here, so for everyone freaking out about that relax for a minute.

 

[Peoria Illini]

I'm an ISU lurker and I don't fault the staff or anybody involved but the Irvins. That said, this isn't just big boy recruiting. I can't think of a single instance of this happening anywhere else ever. Correct me if I'm wrong. This is the only take I disagree with here.

I'm sure there is a lot we don't hear about. But I'm sure there have been caveats to recruits committing, regarding other recruits, etc.

So long after the fact, and on decision day? Maybe not.

 

[TyinLex]

For those drinking the kool-aid saying we're all good ... if you think black-balling a kid just to stay in bed with an AAU team and their "future" recruits will spout those recruits down the road, y'all are ignorant. Who's to say we get those future MP/MIF recruits when they blow up and the blue bloods come calling ... the end goal is that they choose Illinois over Kansas, Duke, UNC, Kentucky, etc right ... well that ain't happening. We are an average basketball school only going to attract average recruits (we've lost a generation due to our lack of winning).

Winning will change, eventually, but we are not guaranteed anything now or in the near future and I feel it would have been better longterm to stick-it to MIF/Irvins, take the chance w/ THT and see what those future MP/MIF recruits do. If they really want to play for Illinois (loyalty) ... which are the type of players we all strive and want to have play for us ... then they wouldn't need to be harnessed to MIF/Irvins like a little child...that's why I'm not high on Ayo.

Ayo might be a great player, but when we actually beat out those schools mentioned above for a player, then my tune might change. This day and age, I compare recruits to who those blue bloods are recruiting...if they ain't going after them, then they probably aren't the next-(insert your favorite NBA player former college all-american) we tend to proclaim all Illini recruits to be these days. You can say Mark Smith was one who claimed from the blue-bloods, but those schools were never all-in on him, even Kentucky.

A kid should commit somewhere, whether they wear a polo, pull a hat, switch a hat, or do it live on TV and it be the most joyous moment of their young life. Watching what I witnessed last night was sad, it doesn't take a shrink to see he wanted to play for the Illini and he was denied that opportunity. Over what, petty feelings getting hurt? ... whats the name of this website ... that is what we should strive for, not AAU loyalty ... High School loyalty ... but Illinois Loyalty #sad

 

[ChiefIllini]

World record for the long jump is 8.95 m. I think a lot of people on this board would be beat it given their conclusions.

 

[RichardKeenesHair]

Been a while since I've posted but here are my thoughts:

1. If forced to choose, the staff made the right call.
2. Ayo committed first. THT could have been told last Thursday/Friday that we were moving on - before the visit. And none of this becomes a problem.
3. Unfortunately the staff read the situation so poorly that we and our shiny new 5* both came away with egg on our face.
4. This was a big boy recruiting situation - again the staff made the right call - they just looked like amateurs doing it.
5. Us Illinois fans have been wanting to land a player like Ayo for over a decade. We've wanted the top dogs from the MIF for a long, long time. Now we played the game, got our player and suddenly don't like the look in the mirror? Our reaction to Ayo and MIF is stupefying. Blame the staff for letting this get out of control - not the kids. They made their intentions known. Again - the staff look like amateurs.
6. We've been deifying THT but his camp has made enough shots towards Ayo that I see why the rift is still there. Remember, the proverbial olive branch from THT and THT's mom wasn't extended until there was something for THT to gain. He handled the situation 100x better than our staff did, but he shouldn't be absolved of all blame in letting it get this far.
7. In terms of those hand wringing over Robert Smith and Simeon potentially black balling Illinois - name me the last 5 Illinois commits from Simeon. Better yet, I'll do it for you: DJ Williams, Kendrick Nunn, Jaylon Tate, Stan Simpson, Calvin Brock. Before that? Bryant Notree and Kevin Turner.
7b. In terms of the above - the last Simeon players to play for Illinois in an NCAA tournament were Calvin Brock and before him, Kevin Turner.
7c. You know who we didn't get from Simeon in that time? Derrick Rose, Jabari Parker, hell we didn't even get Ed Morrow. The Simeon pipeline is a mummers farse for Illinois fans to hold on to the 80's when it was real. Since that time it's been used a fall back for Illinois to take all of the B and C rated talent. We're not losing a pipeline, we opened a new one.
8. All that said, again THT didn't deserve to be publicly embarrassed. In any way, shape or form.
9. Make no mistake - we're in bed with the Irvin's now. It feels slimy and gross at the moment but if we start winning games and the Irvin's keep producing the "A" talent (see: Miller, Adam) for Illinois, isn't that what we've all wanted? Let's not be complete hypocrites - if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
10. ... on a more light hearted note - isn't this the most friggin Illinois thing that could happen?

This is an excellent post and really sums things up well. One nuance I would add is that I believe Ayo and family expected THT to be the one to pick somewhere else on his own given the beef. After all, he was the one who left MIF. I assume they didn't want to be the "bad guys" so they downplayed it all and figured it would work itself out. Hell, they may have even told the staff they were fine with us going after THT (almost assuredly they did). But when the rubber met the road and it looked like he was coming here they let their true feelings be known

 

[peace davids]

A kid should commit somewhere, whether they wear a polo, pull a hat, switch a hat, or do it live on TV and it be the most joyous moment of their young life. Watching what I witnessed last night was sad, it doesn't take a shrink to see he wanted to play for the Illini and he was denied that opportunity. Over what, petty feelings getting hurt? ... whats the name of this website ... that is what we should strive for, not AAU loyalty ... High School loyalty ... but Illinois Loyalty #sad

Reality kind of sucks. Kids don't get to go to their preferred school all the time - for lots of reasons. This isn't just basketball, but kids trying to get into their dream school and academic program. Cost, logistics, denied admissions, etc. Maybe THT really wanted to go to East Lansing, but he was also denied that opportunity. He and his family moved on, and they will from this.

If he wasn't 100% certain of his choice in ISU, he could have easily postponed the decision based on the events of yesterday. He will do great there with a good coach and talented recruiting class. I am not saying that Illinois should be guilt free here - but THT will move on, and hopefully be stronger because of this. I will watch ISU intently and root for him every step of the way.

 

[Deleted member 29907]

https://twitter.com/KedPrince4/status/923910197416005632

From Kedric Prince this morning

"#Illini bball fans IMPORTANT tweet (fact) here, Illinois DID NOT pull Talen Horton-Tucker’s scholarship offer. More to come from me later!"

So, er, nevermind the last 50 pages then. eh?

 

[PlayAZ]

Been a while since I've posted but here are my thoughts:

1. If forced to choose, the staff made the right call.
2. Ayo committed first. THT could have been told last Thursday/Friday that we were moving on - before the visit. And none of this becomes a problem.
3. Unfortunately the staff read the situation so poorly that we and our shiny new 5* both came away with egg on our face.
4. This was a big boy recruiting situation - again the staff made the right call - they just looked like amateurs doing it.
5. Us Illinois fans have been wanting to land a player like Ayo for over a decade. We've wanted the top dogs from the MIF for a long, long time. Now we played the game, got our player and suddenly don't like the look in the mirror? Our reaction to Ayo and MIF is stupefying. Blame the staff for letting this get out of control - not the kids. They made their intentions known. Again - the staff look like amateurs.
6. We've been deifying THT but his camp has made enough shots towards Ayo that I see why the rift is still there. Remember, the proverbial olive branch from THT and THT's mom wasn't extended until there was something for THT to gain. He handled the situation 100x better than our staff did, but he shouldn't be absolved of all blame in letting it get this far.
7. In terms of those hand wringing over Robert Smith and Simeon potentially black balling Illinois - name me the last 5 Illinois commits from Simeon. Better yet, I'll do it for you: DJ Williams, Kendrick Nunn, Jaylon Tate, Stan Simpson, Calvin Brock. Before that? Bryant Notree and Kevin Turner.
7b. In terms of the above - the last Simeon players to play for Illinois in an NCAA tournament were Calvin Brock and before him, Kevin Turner.
7c. You know who we didn't get from Simeon in that time? Derrick Rose, Jabari Parker, hell we didn't even get Ed Morrow. The Simeon pipeline is a mummers farse for Illinois fans to hold on to the 80's when it was real. Since that time it's been used a fall back for Illinois to take all of the B and C rated talent. We're not losing a pipeline, we opened a new one.
8. All that said, again THT didn't deserve to be publicly embarrassed. In any way, shape or form.
9. Make no mistake - we're in bed with the Irvin's now. It feels slimy and gross at the moment but if we start winning games and the Irvin's keep producing the "A" talent (see: Miller, Adam) for Illinois, isn't that what we've all wanted? Let's not be complete hypocrites - if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
10. ... on a more light hearted note - isn't this the most friggin Illinois thing that could happen?

Agree, disagree or anywhere in between - that's where I see things from after seeing many, many different viewpoints and sleeping on it for a night.

POTD and one of the better ones period! Well done thanks for the perspective!

Good Luck to THT, lets get back on the ILLINI now!

 

[ILL in IA]

World record for the long jump is 8.95 m. I think a lot of people on this board would be beat it given their conclusions.

 

[skyIdub]

For those drinking the kool-aid saying we're all good ... if you think black-balling a kid just to stay in bed with an AAU team and their "future" recruits will spout those recruits down the road, y'all are ignorant. Who's to say we get those future MP/MIF recruits when they blow up and the blue bloods come calling ... the end goal is that they choose Illinois over Kansas, Duke, UNC, Kentucky, etc right ... well that ain't happening. We are an average basketball school only going to attract average recruits (we've lost a generation due to our lack of winning).

Winning will change, eventually, but we are not guaranteed anything now or in the near future and I feel it would have been better longterm to stick-it to MIF/Irvins, take the chance w/ THT and see what those future MP/MIF recruits do. If they really want to play for Illinois (loyalty) ... which are the type of players we all strive and want to have play for us ... then they wouldn't need to be harnessed to MIF/Irvins like a little child...that's why I'm not high on Ayo.

Ayo might be a great player, but when we actually beat out those schools mentioned above for a player, then my tune might change. This day and age, I compare recruits to who those blue bloods are recruiting...if they ain't going after them, then they probably aren't the next-(insert your favorite NBA player former college all-american) we tend to proclaim all Illini recruits to be these days. You can say Mark Smith was one who claimed from the blue-bloods, but those schools were never all-in on him, even Kentucky.

A kid should commit somewhere, whether they wear a polo, pull a hat, switch a hat, or do it live on TV and it be the most joyous moment of their young life. Watching what I witnessed last night was sad, it doesn't take a shrink to see he wanted to play for the Illini and he was denied that opportunity. Over what, petty feelings getting hurt? ... whats the name of this website ... that is what we should strive for, not AAU loyalty ... High School loyalty ... but Illinois Loyalty #sad

 

[ejam21]

This board is insane. First off it is true, Underwood yanked the offer at the last minute and that is BS.

However, what was he supposed to do? Ayo and THT were the top 2 on his wishlist. He was told it's cool. He landed them both and then the scenario drastically changed.

He could either say I will not stand for this type of behavior and ruin a relationship with the biggest power brokers in Chicago hoops, and that's a fact, or make the deal. He made the right move.

The bad guys here are the Irvins. No one else. They in essence stole candy from a baby because THT made them mad by leaving their AAU team. It is also true if THT didn't leave he'd be an illini right now, but they threw a temper tantrum and hold a grudge. The joke is the Fire always has a ridiculous amount of talent and never wins crap.

The Irvins should be embarrassed. But they aren't. They're probably sitting back with cigars because they won. But if you look at it from Illinois's perspective, we really aren't after a lot of Chicago kids right now in the coming years, Underwood recruits far more nationally. He has strong ties in Florida, Antigua has ties in NY/NJ, Walker has ties in St Louis, this isn't like many past coaches where it is Chicago or bust. The Chicago guys were are after for the most part are connected to the Irvins. So again what can Underwood too.

Then the fallout out, well first off a tiny tiny minority of fans follow recruiting so most will know nothing about this. Some will hold a grudge forever, but I don't even know who the next non fire Chicago guy is right now. if that doesn't come until 2021 and we are coming off a couple of good tourney runs, does anyone care?

Simple fact is Ayo is the better recruit. He makes a splash with other recruits, he puts us on the map and has the potential to be a McD's AA. He will bring other guys to play with him. Underwood had no other choice.

You want to be mad, be mad at the Irvins. They are the ones that did this, not Ayo, not THT, not Underwood.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

How is it JUST the Irvins? How can the irvins wield the power to threaten an Ayo decommit if Ayo's camp isnt complicit in the threat?

 

[Joel Goodson]

This is an excellent post and really sums things up well. One nuance I would add is that I believe Ayo and family expected THT to be the one to pick somewhere else on his own given the beef. After all, he was the one who left MIF. I assume they didn't want to be the "bad guys" so they downplayed it all and figured it would work itself out. Hell, they may have even told the staff they were fine with us going after THT (almost assuredly they did). But when the rubber met the road and it looked like he was coming here they let their true feelings be known

Spot on, IMO. As is the post you replied to. True feelings were withheld until it became apparent that THT was going to choose us. Talk about a communication breakdown: what a cluster thing!

 

[DonIllini]

I suggest you guys read Kedric tweets sound like we were setup to look bad and to ythrow mud on the MIF