Iowa 104, Illinois 97 OT POSTGAME

#126      
Mark Smith I think will be a good player but he is not a player that is going to be able to play the point, he has a real difficult time staying in front of his man. This team really needs 2 Bigs that can rebound and defend the rim, with that you win most of these games.

Never having seen Mark play before this year. I hope I'm wrong, but it sure looks like there were a lot of people on this board who spoke of him as a superstar. In general, he hasn't been good. All that said, he's a freshman.
A lot of people seem to think Lucas will have a hard time getting PT next year because of AYO. I might say, unless he improves, AYO might take more minutes from Mark than Lucas.
 
#127      
Last Illini team to start out the B1G worse, was 1998-1999 team and they went 0-7 before getting their first B1G win @ Michigan.They ultimately ended up 3-13 and last in the conference.
 
#128      

Peoria Illini

Peoria, IL
Last Illini team to start out the B1G worse, was 1998-1999 team and they went 0-7 before getting their first B1G win @ Michigan.They ultimately ended up 3-13 and last in the conference.

Was that the team that made it to the Big Ten tourney championship game?

I could see us going 3-15 or 4-14 the rest of the season. See if BU can get them to bounce back.
 
#130      
After what happened at home yesterday, I find myself wondering if even Underwood can save these guys from the losing mindset that has taken hold. This team can't handle success....like, at all. A 20 pt lead is nothing for these guys to lose. Some of that is being young, and I'm ok with the occasional bone-headed play by a freshman. But this plague has got to be cured.
 
#131      

illini80

Forgottonia
This was the hardest one to take yet. There are 3 players on this years team that have been major, major disappointments. Guys we all expected to be major contributors. I knew we were thin in depth, but I thought we had quality in our starters. We do not.

It's time for the light to come on. How many bad, sloppy passes can you make in one season before you learn. How many times can you drive to the bucket without being able to get a shot off before you learn. How many times can you lose your man for a layup. So frustrating.
 
#132      
After what happened at home yesterday, I find myself wondering if even Underwood can save these guys from the losing mindset that has taken hold. This team can't handle success....like, at all. A 20 pt lead is nothing for these guys to lose. Some of that is being young, and I'm ok with the occasional bone-headed play by a freshman. But this plague has got to be cured.

There's a concept called the "7 c's of a winning team".

1. Coaching
2. Character
3. Communication
4. Commitment
5. Contagious Energy
6. Caring
7. Consistency

It's kinda cheesy, but not off the mark. We obviously lack consistency, we lack contagious energy, and we better start caring about falling short over and over. Communication could use improvements, too.
 
#133      

Oldtoysrock

Sarasota, Florida
Agree. Where is this vaunted Underwood offense? :noidea:



I just watched the post game press conference with Underwood and the questions I would’ve liked to have seen asked: why is it that when the 1-3-1 was put in we looked so clueless, and if conditioning is possibly a concern because all the players seem tired in the 2nd half of this game, and the Michigan game?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
#134      
You would be wrong sir on the last point. An 18 month committed athlete will excel and only get better at this game.

Lucas is a slower more methodical, less athletic, less of a shooter than Mark Smith. It is the facts...No secret that I think Williams is even superior to Smith overall, but Lucas is not on any level, except experience which is quickly being taken care of.:chief:

Yeah, not sure what happened to Lucas. Last year, he made at least a couple of amazing passes each game, all in Groce's no-motion offense. Now, with all of the cuts, I thought his passing would really take off, but his play really seems stagnant. Maybe, it's a confidence thing?
 
#136      

BananaShampoo

Captain 'Paign
Phoenix, AZ
The flu will do that to you.
Yeah, I'm really wondering how this game might have been different if practically our whole team wasn't recovering from the flu. You could tell they were more and more gassed as the game went on and had nothing left by OT. Sucks that it happened when it did, but notice that BU never really used it as an excuse after the game, which just shows what kind of coach he is.
 
#137      

Oldtoysrock

Sarasota, Florida
Wow could this team use this guy. My dad affectionately called him Catfish. Dad passed and I’m not sure why he called him that but I know he was his favorite player as he loved his mental toughness. If Finke could corral Johnson’s spirit we would be on to something. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ax8lKv5J2Ic



I didn’t watch the clip yet, but immediately I saw why he was called catfish, because he looks like one with that little wispy mustache.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
#138      

Oldtoysrock

Sarasota, Florida
The flu will do that to you.



I guess I was most surprised that Spicy G was tired (and didn’t box out on that pivotal free throw)I realize this was the most minutes he’s played but his background as a soccer player which have reputations of being very well conditioned. He also didn’t get the flu.


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#139      
We should be okay once January is over. Our January record during the Groce/BU era is 12-30. WeWillWin#
 
#140      
Mid Season Evaluation

After last night this might not be the best of times to do this....but I am wondering how many on this board would evaluate the season to this point since we are just a little over the halfway mark...I will start...add other points if you like.....
1. Before the season I had us projected at 13-5 at this point...we're at 10-8....
disappointed??...yes...throw the towel in on rest of season..no...had we won
the Maryland, Northwestern, and Iowa games...we'd be 13-5...those three
games we had, but our inability to close those games out has really killed us

2. We are weak on the inside...everyone knew this would be a problem....are we
going to get better...with Ebo gaining more minutes and some confidence and
if we can land a big for next year...I say yes...don't think we could be any
worse...pretty certain the staff is working on this

3. We are inconsistent....take first half Iowa...then 2nd half...need I say more...
does this surprise me...not really....playing as many freshman as we have plus
other underclassmen, as well as Finke and Black playing out of position due to
a lack of a center...and throw in the fact there hasn't been a team leader... I
am surprised we haven't been more inconsistent....will that change...to be
determined...but it looks like Frazier is stepping into that role and could
provide some valuable leadership skills this team needs

4. Defense has been good....damn good....probably better than most expected
Offense...good at times...but better than 50% of the time not so good...will
that improve...I would say yes...as players (mainly freshmen) gain experience
and learning the system and become use to playing with each other offense
will improve.

5 Coaching staff has done a pretty fair job...not great...but not bad....got to get
players to play the game...not the opponent...game is to be played a certain
way...opponent will dictate that to some extent..but certain things are done a
certain way no matter who the opponent is...I really like the no nonsense
approach of BU and this staff....not afraid to get on players...but not afraid to
pat them on the back and praise when it's warranted...the past 2 coaching
staffs did not have a good balance of this IMO

6. Are we as athletic as I thought....no....but I'm pretty sure this coaching staff
will get the players and we will become more so in the next couple years..
winning more games this year will help speed up that process...but I believe
it will happen.

I've only touched on a few things, but I'm still thinking this season has a lot for Illinois fans to look forward to....a ncaa bid.....no......nit bid....probably not unless
we string together several wins over the next 3-4 weeks....but I stated in a thread before the season started that I would consider this season a success if we played hard...we've done that....if we improved...I think most would say yes to this...if we were a team that no one really wanted to play come Feb. and March...I think we're on the verge of that...most analyst and reporters have stated that we are much better than our record...so what do we have to look forward to???.....continue growth....improved offense....more experience very game...maybe upset a team or two...make some noise in B10 tourney....landing a recruit that can handle the middle....and feeling excited about next year....especially with Ayo coming in...the next couple weeks will determine some of these points or questions going forward into 2018-19
 
#141      
Lucas, is quicker with the ball and on defense than, Smith. His defense on the ball has been disappointing, though. Smith has got to improve his ball handling and quickness with the basketball. That is why he has struggled at times, in my opinion.
 
#142      
This Iowa loss had me in pain, yo. Not a physical pain, like the kind you get when you unexpectedly sit down on something oddly shaped and it makes forceful contact with the region of your body that doctor's term the "Sacks". (Or 'der Knutsachs', as German doctors call'em). Nah, my pain from last night's Iowa game was the kind that makes you feel like your soul has been slowly bled out of you.

But you know what ended up making me feel better, though? Watching Underwood's post-game conference. Before Dan posted it, I was reading through all of the angry, emotional, my-mama-don't-love-me and it-burns-when-I-pee comments on the state of Illinois basketball. And, you know, as you read one complaint post after another and start to sink into the worldview of people's cynical interpretations, it's real easy to forget that a message board/forum is an *extreme* distortion of reality. In fact, the sh-t that we say in a forum is at best, what, 15-20% accurate in its reflection of the actuality of the teams we are discussing? Let's be real. Most of us don't really know sh-t about what's going on with the squad, and we tell extraordinary lies to ourselves about how much we understand the development of a basketball team.

If you really listen to Underwood, you'll know that he recognizes exactly what's goin on. He's not churning out coach-speak. If you listen to the way he gives nuanced breakdowns of what each player is going through, it makes you realize how firmly he understands what he's doing. Like, when he talked about Alstork's psychology, how he struggles with emotional control, and the way this relates to him picking up extra fouls. Or the way he gives engineering-like explanations contrasting the leadership dynamics of his old team vs this Illini team. Underwood understands the machine that is a college basketball team - and this, above all things, gives me confidence for the future. Coach knows how the parts really work, and therefore knows what to fix. That's the massive difference between Underwood and Groce. Underwood understands the engineering of the car he's driving, and what to fine tune in order to improve performance. Groce - God bless his peanut head and his cartoonish physical mannerisms - was driving on the wrong side of the road while pouring hot coffee on his own head, with a big mouth-open smile on his face, putting it all in the hands of the Good Lord to guide him safely.

- 0n3
 
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#143      

RedRocksIllini

Morrison, CO
This Iowa loss had me in pain, yo. Not a physical pain, like the kind you get when you unexpectedly sit down on something oddly shaped and it makes forceful contact with the region of your body that doctor's term the "Sacks". (Or 'der Knutsachs', as German doctors call'em). Nah, my pain from last night's Iowa game was the kind that makes you feel like your soul has been slowly bled out of you.

But you know what ended up making me feel better, though? Watching Underwood's post-game conference. Before Dan posted it, I was reading through all of the angry, emotional, my-mama-don't-love-me and it-burns-when-I-pee comments on the state of Illinois basketball. And, you know, as you read one complaint post after another and start to sink into the worldview of people's cynical interpretations, it's real easy to forget that a message board/forum is an *extreme* distortion of reality. In fact, the sh-t that we say in a forum is at best, what, 15-20% accurate in its reflection of the actuality of the teams we are discussing? Let's be real. Most of us don't really know sh-t about what's going on with the squad, and we tell extraordinary lies to ourselves about how much we understand the development of a basketball team.

If you really listen to Underwood, you'll know that he recognizes exactly what's goin on. He's not churning out coach-speak. If you listen to the way he gives nuanced breakdowns of what each player is going through, it makes you realize how firmly he understands what he's doing. Like, when he talked about Alstork's psychology, how he struggles with emotional control, and the way this relates to him picking up extra fouls. Or the way he gives engineering-like explanations contrasting the leadership dynamics of his old team vs this Illini team. Underwood understands the machine that is a college basketball team - and this, above all things, gives me confidence for the future. Coach knows how the parts really work, and therefore knows what to fix. That's the massive difference between Underwood and Groce. Underwood understands the engineering of the car he's driving, and what to fine tune in order to improve performance. Groce - God bless his peanut head and his cartoonish physical mannerisms - was driving on the wrong side of the road while pouring hot coffee on his own head, with a big mouth-open smile on his face, putting it all in the hands of the Good Lord to guide him safely.

- 0n3

Thanks for that laugh. Really needed it. Man, does that sum up the Groce era (and the Beckman era. And the Zook era. And...)
 
#144      
After last night this might not be the best of times to do this....but I am wondering how many on this board would evaluate the season to this point since we are just a little over the halfway mark...I will start...add other points if you like.....
1. Before the season I had us projected at 13-5 at this point...we're at 10-8....
disappointed??...yes...throw the towel in on rest of season..no...had we won
the Maryland, Northwestern, and Iowa games...we'd be 13-5...those three
games we had, but our inability to close those games out has really killed us

2. We are weak on the inside...everyone knew this would be a problem....are we
going to get better...with Ebo gaining more minutes and some confidence and
if we can land a big for next year...I say yes...don't think we could be any
worse...pretty certain the staff is working on this

3. We are inconsistent....take first half Iowa...then 2nd half...need I say more...
does this surprise me...not really....playing as many freshman as we have plus
other underclassmen, as well as Finke and Black playing out of position due to
a lack of a center...and throw in the fact there hasn't been a team leader... I
am surprised we haven't been more inconsistent....will that change...to be
determined...but it looks like Frazier is stepping into that role and could
provide some valuable leadership skills this team needs

4. Defense has been good....damn good....probably better than most expected
Offense...good at times...but better than 50% of the time not so good...will
that improve...I would say yes...as players (mainly freshmen) gain experience
and learning the system and become use to playing with each other offense
will improve.

5 Coaching staff has done a pretty fair job...not great...but not bad....got to get
players to play the game...not the opponent...game is to be played a certain
way...opponent will dictate that to some extent..but certain things are done a
certain way no matter who the opponent is...I really like the no nonsense
approach of BU and this staff....not afraid to get on players...but not afraid to
pat them on the back and praise when it's warranted...the past 2 coaching
staffs did not have a good balance of this IMO

6. Are we as athletic as I thought....no....but I'm pretty sure this coaching staff
will get the players and we will become more so in the next couple years..
winning more games this year will help speed up that process...but I believe
it will happen.

I've only touched on a few things, but I'm still thinking this season has a lot for Illinois fans to look forward to....a ncaa bid.....no......nit bid....probably not unless
we string together several wins over the next 3-4 weeks....but I stated in a thread before the season started that I would consider this season a success if we played hard...we've done that....if we improved...I think most would say yes to this...if we were a team that no one really wanted to play come Feb. and March...I think we're on the verge of that...most analyst and reporters have stated that we are much better than our record...so what do we have to look forward to???.....continue growth....improved offense....more experience very game...maybe upset a team or two...make some noise in B10 tourney....landing a recruit that can handle the middle....and feeling excited about next year....especially with Ayo coming in...the next couple weeks will determine some of these points or questions going forward into 2018-19

They scored 104 against us, so I think # 4 is a stretch.
 
#145      
How many bad, sloppy passes can you make in one season before you learn. How many times can you drive to the bucket without being able to get a shot off before you learn. How many times can you lose your man for a layup.

For the love of god, don’t challenge them! :eek:
 
#146      
They scored 104 against us, so I think # 4 is a stretch.

I wonder about the defensive philosophy of playing so tight on the perimeter players. They get up tight and either pick up cheap fouls (Alstork esp.) or get so tight they get burned and suddenly its advantage offense. Giving up a lot of good looks.
 
#147      

JFGsCoffeeMug

BU:1 Trash cans:0
Chicago
I'm sorry, losing is losing. Are you trying to say our losses are "better?"

Now we are losing, but with a better staff?

To me, the nuance is that we are still losing right now, but we are closer to turning the corner now than with our previous coaching staff. The two might feel the same for the time being. But they will feel pretty different in future.

At least, that's the hope.
 
#148      

JFGsCoffeeMug

BU:1 Trash cans:0
Chicago
I was unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately depending on pov, unable to watch the game, so will someone please explain the Lucas comment?

Lucas didn't play due to an unspecified violation of team rules. Underwood did not indicate when Lucas will be permitted to play again.
 
#149      
You would be wrong sir on the last point. An 18 month committed athlete will excel and only get better at this game.

Lucas is a slower more methodical, less athletic, less of a shooter than Mark Smith. It is the facts...No secret that I think Williams is even superior to Smith overall, but Lucas is not on any level, except experience which is quickly being taken care of.:chief:

I'll give you Smith is a better shooter, but he certainly isn't faster, & doesn't seem to be more athletic at least as BBall player. Lucas is a far better defender. I do think Williams has better BBall attributes than either.
Probably much of the disappointment with some with Smith is he was overhyped by many on this board.
The hype was probably impossible to live up to.
 
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