2018 Off Season Thread

[Calvin]

We were a dumpster fire this season, after changing to a much better coach (at least on paper). Underwood comes in and has a terrible season. What gives?

We have good guys on the roster, but a serious personnel issue none-the-less. Would it be better if he could work with the guys we have? Obviously, but the fit isn't enough in some cases.

Honestly, I think several of these players would also be better off somewhere else, rather than trying to adapt their playing style, expectations, etc. We had a lot of turnover at the time of the coaching change, and I think this is just an extension of it.

It sucks, but once you hire Underwood, you have to let him get his system installed. We never passed the eye test IMO, and while it did look more like his system at the end of the season, it's still not there in a big way.

 

[Pittsburgh]

+1
Late to post on this, and others might've already chimed in too, but I like to read posts in chronological order. I think TJL is vastly underrated by many posters on this site. Yes, he needs to work on his 3 point shot and free throws, but does bring a lot of positives. Loved watching him and Frazier on the floor together at the same time, and TJL ran point more often than not in that scenario. My impression is he's a team player (suspension issues aside) and in one of Rob's videos he talked very positively about Frazier's breakout year, how they're buds off the court and TJL is a mentor to him. My words, obviously, not verbatim from TJL. I see 2 more years with TJL as a solid role player, coming off the bench or starting depending on who's playing well, even with Ayo and other quality guards joining the team.

Lucas is the closest thing to an extension of Underwood on the floor, at both ends.

 

[Pittsburgh]

Expecting new players to take this years team to the tourney is a mistake. If kipper or aj or finke became a consistent 3rd option it would make sense to raise expectations ... but they didn’t.

I hope we make it next year. I don’t expected it.


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Kipper was on that path to being the 3rd option by season's end.

 

[ChiefIllini]

Leron, Frazier, and Kipper are the only three players that would truly set this team back by losing them, in that order respectively. Smith was probably 4th on my list, just given his potential. Add Ayo to those three and you have 4 legit threats on the floor. That's enough to turn a few games last year around. DMW looks so much like his father out there its scary--maybe he never becomes Frank but hes got a very similar skill set. Gonna be a reach to make the tourney next year, and if we lose one or two of the three I mentioned it probably means we dont, but the pieces will be there.

 

[Illini B-Ball Fan]

Wow, you guys before 7:00AM have your debate gear on already! Do you have it all laid out the night before to jump into like a first-responder?

Just think - it was only a few months ago the Mark & Mark duo were going to be part of a new beginning for the Illini, but now they're both gone. Well, sometimes things just don't always work out the way we want and we have to get ready for more changes, like it or not. Suggest reading the book, "Who Moved My Cheese?" (if you haven't already), to get a grip on what to expect when life changes and the best way to move through those changes when they come your way.

Just glad today we have another day today to make this team better by adding new/right players that fit the scheme of things. AND, even if we lose 2-3 more players, the sky is not falling - Illinois basketball will go on and be better for it! Go Illini!! :thumb:

 

[Joel Goodson]

Leron, Frazier, and Kipper are the only three players that would truly set this team back by losing them, in that order respectively. Smith was probably 4th on my list, just given his potential. Add Ayo to those three and you have 4 legit threats on the floor. That's enough to turn a few games last year around. DMW looks so much like his father out there its scary--maybe he never becomes Frank but hes got a very similar skill set. Gonna be a reach to make the tourney next year, and if we lose one or two of the three I mentioned it probably means we dont, but the pieces will be there.

+1

Add Jones, Samba, Trice/grad xfer and the sky is not falling. Obviously, Black returning is key.

 

[Deleted member 29907]

Wow, you guys before 7:00AM have your debate gear on already! Do you have it all laid out the night before to jump into like a first-responder?

Just think - it was only a few months ago the Mark & Mark duo were going to be part of a new beginning for the Illini, but now they're both gone. Well, sometimes things just don't always work out the way we want and we have to get ready for more changes, like it or not. Suggest reading the book, "Who Moved My Cheese?" (if you haven't already), to get a grip on what to expect when life changes and the best way to move through those changes when they come your way.

Just glad today we have another day today to make this team better by adding new/right players that fit the scheme of things. AND, even if we lose 2-3 more players, the sky is not falling - Illinois basketball will go on and be better for it! Go Illini!! :thumb:

As i recall, Brad Underwood recognized this book early last year as the next "Grapes of Wrath".

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

Lucas is the closest thing to an extension of Underwood on the floor, at both ends.

This.

 

[Illini B-Ball Fan]

As i recall, Brad Underwood recognized this book early last year as the next "Grapes of Wrath".

Yeah, probably so, but the main characters in that book were not mice.

 

[GortTheRobot]

We were a dumpster fire this season, after changing to a much better coach (at least on paper). Underwood comes in and has a terrible season. What gives?

We have good guys on the roster, but a serious personnel issue none-the-less. Would it be better if he could work with the guys we have? Obviously, but the fit isn't enough in some cases.

Honestly, I think several of these players would also be better off somewhere else, rather than trying to adapt their playing style, expectations, etc. We had a lot of turnover at the time of the coaching change, and I think this is just an extension of it.

It sucks, but once you hire Underwood, you have to let him get his system installed. We never passed the eye test IMO, and while it did look more like his system at the end of the season, it's still not there in a big way.

Yes, having a bad year...again...sucks. But look at John Beilein, year one: UM fans were shouting that his hire was a mistake...I'm sure they don't feel that way now. Let's wait and see what develops in years 2 & 3. I know you are not blaming him alone, but this season should not have been completely unexpected.

 

[GortTheRobot]

Lucas is the closest thing to an extension of Underwood on the floor, at both ends.

Someone has already seconded this, so I will third it...if that is the proper terminology. I am glad we have not heard rumors of Lucas leaving with the others floating around (and confirmed). Not saying he won't, but I would be happy to have him back.

 

[PtownIllini8]

Just think it is ironic that after one of the worst BB seasons in memory that we give a guy who gets a C grade at best a bonus for a 10% increase in fan attendance. He very easily could have acknowledged that milestone and given that $25,000 to a needy charity. He would have gotten a lot more mileage out of that gesture. Sorry, but it just came across as a little selfish.
Feeling the vibes, absolutely, but concerned too, absolutely.Go illini

Interesting view that taking a bonus from a negotiated contract is selfish. I guess you must've expected a rebuild to happen in a single year.

 

[PtownIllini8]

While true, it would take an incredible recruiting season to drastically change that outlook. We all have our fingers crossed but until the dominos stop falling on our heads and start falling in our laps, it's pretty tough to maintain a positive outlook on next season.

No, it would take us signing Tevian Jones and a big who can contribute right away by defending the paint. Those two things and Black stays around for his last year, along with reasonable improvement from our youngsters.

 

[Joel Goodson]

Someone has already seconded this, so I will third it...if that is the proper terminology. I am glad we have not heard rumors of Lucas leaving with the others floating around (and confirmed). Not saying he won't, but I would be happy to have him back.

As will I. Think Lucas' importance to next season's squad far surpassed Smith's (had he stayed). Don't want him to go, but will understand it if he does.

 

[ChazzReinhold]

Yes, having a bad year...again...sucks. But look at John Beilein, year one: UM fans were shouting that his hire was a mistake...I'm sure they don't feel that way now. Let's wait and see what develops in years 2 & 3. I know you are not blaming him alone, but this season should not have been completely unexpected.

And that was a team with Manny Harris, Deshawn Sims, and Ekpe Udoh.

 

[UnderwoodsCoffeeGuy]

Someone has already seconded this, so I will third it...if that is the proper terminology. I am glad we have not heard rumors of Lucas leaving with the others floating around (and confirmed). Not saying he won't, but I would be happy to have him back.

Agreed. From what I saw it took TJL time to develop a winning attitude, but the knowledge and skill is there. At the end of the season he looked like a B1G guard with his defense and decision making. He could be great here the next two years with Ayo and Trent.

 

[drewillini89]

IMO as everything sits now, we're already looking better next year:

Ayo will likely be much more productive than Alstork was. He can get to the rim and score.

Alan Griffin is going to surprise a lot of people and I think he's a huge improvement over Smith. He can knock down open shots.

 

[LBZ]

Yes, having a bad year...again...sucks. But look at John Beilein, year one: UM fans were shouting that his hire was a mistake...I'm sure they don't feel that way now. Let's wait and see what develops in years 2 & 3. I know you are not blaming him alone, but this season should not have been completely unexpected.

Am glad you brought this up. Honestly cannot believe he has been there since '07 tho.

Michigan Wolverines (Big Ten Conference) (2007–present)
2007–08 Michigan 10–22 5–13 T–9th
2008–09 Michigan 21–14 9–9 T–7th NCAA Round of 32
2009–10 Michigan 15–17 7–11 T–7th
2010–11 Michigan 21–14 9–9 T–4th NCAA Round of 32
2011–12 Michigan 24–10 13–5 T–1st NCAA Round of 64
2012–13 Michigan 31–8 12–6 T–4th NCAA Runner-up
2013–14 Michigan 28–9 15–3 1st NCAA Elite Eight
2014–15 Michigan 16–16 8–10 9th
2015–16 Michigan 23–13 10–8 8th NCAA Round of 64
2016–17 Michigan 26–12 10–8 T–5th NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2017–18 Michigan 28–7 13–5 T–4th NCAA
Michigan: 243–142 (.631) 111–87 (.561)
Total: 719–417 (.633)
National champion Postseason invitational champion
Conference regular season champion Conference regular season and conference tournament champion
Division regular season champion Division regular season and conference tournament champion
Conference tournament champion

 

[Deleted member 631370]

IMO as everything sits now, we're already looking better next year:

Ayo will likely be much more productive than Alstork was. He can get to the rim and score.

Alan Griffin is going to surprise a lot of people and I think he's a huge improvement over Smith. He can knock down open shots.

The key phrase is "as everything sits now".

I agree that Ayo is an upgrade over Alstork.

Ordinarily, I'd scoff at Griffin being an upgrade over Smith. But then, all Griffin has to do is hit one 3 per conference game, and that's matching Smith's scoring output. So, the bar is pretty low in that sense.

If those are our only losses -- Alstork and Smith -- then yes, I think we will be improved. Probably a team that will win ~19 games in the regular season and hopefully get into the tourney conversation.

But if we lose Black OR Kipper OR Lucas OR Finke.......well, that will change the conversation. Black especially.

But then, if we add Tevian Jones and/or Trice, then we could potentially be a 20-win team.

Bottom line is, it's just too early to prognosticate until we know who's staying / going / joining.

 

[Illini4life04]

I will be shocked if Black stays, if you guys thought we were bad this year

 

[Sizzler22]

I will be shocked if Black stays, if you guys thought we were bad this year

Lol

 

[foby]

As will I. Think Lucas' importance to next season's squad far surpassed Smith's (had he stayed). Don't want him to go, but will understand it if he does.

Agreed. I would have TL 4th on my list behind the obvious 3, and him followed by DW and GE. If we somehow keep those 6 and have a strong class, things should be a little different next year.

 

[Deleted member 29907]

IMO as everything sits now, we're already looking better next year:

Ayo will likely be much more productive than Alstork was. He can get to the rim and score.

Alan Griffin is going to surprise a lot of people and I think he's a huge improvement over Smith. He can knock down open shots.

IMO i am thinking DMW 2018/9 is an upgrade over Alstork 17/18 assuming he sticks around.

 

[haasi]

Agreed. From what I saw it took TJL time to develop a winning attitude, but the knowledge and skill is there. At the end of the season he looked like a B1G guard with his defense and decision making. He could be great here the next two years with Ayo and Trent.

Yes, and here’s the other thing about Lucas- the only obvious skill deficiency is shooting, and some ppl can develop that even fairly late in their careers just by focusing on it and putting in tons of reps. If I’m Tejon, I’d spend a whole lot of time this offseason working on my jumper. Otherwise, he’s got a nice skill set - good handle, good passing, quick, good defender, good rebounding for his size and position - and he looks like a good fit in this system


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[Ransom Stoddard]

I will be shocked if Black stays, if you guys thought we were bad this year

Serious question--what good reasons do you see for Black to leave?